NSG Senate Coffee Shop (OLD THREAD, DO NOT POST)

[Imperiatom]

We could make one change for them.The 16k-50k rate will become 10% and the 51k-100k rate will become 20%. That's how I originally had it.

That is a fair ask. He sacrificed the introduction of a property tax of 1% on all property for the bill to pass.

[Geilinor]

We could make one change for them.The 16k-50k rate will become 10% and the 51k-100k rate will become 20%. That's how I originally had it.

Any bill with that in it will be voted down by me, and most likely the members of my party as well.

Chestaan said, "Is there a new draft that I'm not aware of? Because I still see the vast majority only being taxed as 15%", which confused me. It seemed like he wanted it higher.

[Vazdania]

Establishment of a Nation Act
Drafted by: Aquitayne;
Co-Drafted by: N/A

To the Senators of our yet-to-be-named nation,

REALIZING that the nation the NSG Senate is a governing body in a nation yet to be named,

REALIZING that although legislation continues to be debated and passed, there is not much known about the nation in which the Senate runs;

REALIZING that this nation currently has no laws other than the Marriage Freedom Act,

ASTONISHED that simple laws such as the acts of Murder, Arson, Rape, etc., have not been labeled as illegal,

ASTONISHED that the Senate has allowed this nation to exist in a, to a degree, state of anarchy;

MANDATES that a Senatorial Committee containing of no less and no more than ten (10) Senators be created to complete the following:

1) Hire a topographical firm to label the legal borders of this nation, and to mark such on parchment for official use;
2) Make a concise list of potential names for our nation,
3) Organize and complete the first annual National Census,
4) Create a list of acts, along with their definitions, as well as sentences, to be called illegal;

MANDATES that an annual decade Census be completed of the entire nation to;

1) Map citizens movements within the country (i.e Housing),
2) Gain an accurate number of citizens living within the country (i.e Population);

MANDATES that a national Constitution and Bill of Rights be drafted immediately,

MANDATES that the following services and infrastructure be constructed immediately:

1) Police, Fire, Paramedics
2) Public Schools
3) Hospitals
4) Prisons
5) Firehouses
6) Libraries

HEREBY provides the funds of Nationstates Standard Currency thirty-billion (NSC$30,000,000,000.00),

PUSHES the NSG Senate to pass more legislation to allow legal information to be obtained about our nation.

I expect this draft to get a good deal of opposition, but I believe it is important to have some sort of information about the country we're running.

Also, I know we're in the middle of intense tax debate, but nevertheless I urge you to put this also at the forefront of your thoughts.

You have my full support

[Benomia]

Any bill with that in it will be voted down by me, and most likely the members of my party as well.

Chestaan said, "Is there a new draft that I'm not aware of? Because I still see the vast majority only being taxed as 15%", which confused me. It seemed like he wanted it higher.

SIGNIFICANTLY higher. Like $50k at 35%.

[Irredento]

Keep it as is. Should we change the 5% rate to 10% and the 15% rate to 20% for those who want more taxes on the average person?

I would only support this if you reduce the tax burden on the rich at the same time.

[Evraim]

Keep it as is. Should we change the 5% rate to 10% and the 15% rate to 20% for those who want more taxes on the average person?

I urge you to submit the text as it is. We cannot risk alienating the Liberal Democrats by giving more concessions to the Monarchists and we cannot risk alienating the Monarchists by giving more concessions to the Communists.

National Tax Act

Urgency: Very High

Drafted By: Geilinor

Co-Sponsors: Evraim, Wolfmanne, Gallup, Irredento

---

The government of our yet to be named nation:

RECOGNIZING: the necessity of taxation if the state and government are to be sustained and preserved

ESTABLISHING: a national code of taxation applicable to all citizens and residents, without exception, unless otherwise authorized by the Senate

DEFINING: legal nonmedical drugs as substances, with the exception of foods and non-alcoholic beverages, employed for purposes other than those approved by medical professionals for the treatment of aches, smarts, and illnesses, and which are lawful to possess and use in the aforementioned capacities

MANDATING: that the Senate begin the process of determining which drugs should be legal and which drugs should not be legal with all due urgency

STIPULATING: that the tax code shall operate as follows:

Income Taxes shall be levied at:
0.00% of income earned between 0.00 and 15,999.99 NSC shall be levied
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied
Any income above 1,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied at 45.00%

Sales Taxes shall be levied at:
For nonessential services: 7.25%
For gasoline: 2.50%
For publications, admission tickets to cultural events: 2.00%
For legal nonmedical drugs: 1.25%

Miscellaneous Taxes shall be levied at:
For corporate tax: 13.00%
For capital gains tax: 25.00%

[Chestaan]

The rich save a much greater proportion of their income than the poor, so really we are just taking money that will sit in a bank account and re-invest it in something useful.

Not at all. "The Gospel of Wealth" teaches the rich that they should indeed keep their money flowing, in order to maximize not only their profits, but the profits of those around them. The higher the taxes are on the rich, the more likely they are to hoard it.

There is only so much that the rich can invest in. Are you trying to deny that the rich keep large amounts of money in bank accounts?

[Geilinor]

We could make one change for them.The 16k-50k rate will become 10% and the 51k-100k rate will become 20%. That's how I originally had it.

That is a fair ask. He sacrificed the introduction of a property tax of 1% on all property for the bill to pass.

The way it is right now, a person earning $50,000 a year will only pay 3 or 4% tax, about $2,000. That's not enough revenue if we're going to have social security and universal healthcare.

[Polvia]

Establishment of a Nation Act
Drafted by: Aquitayne;
Co-Drafted by: N/A

To the Senators of our yet-to-be-named nation,

REALIZING that the nation the NSG Senate is a governing body in a nation yet to be named,

REALIZING that although legislation continues to be debated and passed, there is not much known about the nation in which the Senate runs;

REALIZING that this nation currently has no laws other than the Marriage Freedom Act,

ASTONISHED that simple laws such as the acts of Murder, Arson, Rape, etc., have not been labeled as illegal,

ASTONISHED that the Senate has allowed this nation to exist in a, to a degree, state of anarchy;

MANDATES that a Senatorial Committee containing of no less and no more than ten (10) Senators be created to complete the following:

1) Hire a topographical firm to label the legal borders of this nation, and to mark such on parchment for official use;
2) Make a concise list of potential names for our nation,
3) Organize and complete the first annual National Census,
4) Create a list of acts, along with their definitions, as well as sentences, to be called illegal;

MANDATES that an annual decade Census be completed of the entire nation to;

1) Map citizens movements within the country (i.e Housing),
2) Gain an accurate number of citizens living within the country (i.e Population);

MANDATES that a national Constitution and Bill of Rights be drafted immediately,

MANDATES that the following services and infrastructure be constructed immediately:

1) Police, Fire, Paramedics
2) Public Schools
3) Hospitals
4) Prisons
5) Firehouses
6) Libraries

HEREBY provides the funds of Nationstates Standard Currency thirty-billion (NSC$30,000,000,000.00),

PUSHES the NSG Senate to pass more legislation to allow legal information to be obtained about our nation.

I expect this draft to get a good deal of opposition, but I believe it is important to have some sort of information about the country we're running.

Also, I know we're in the middle of intense tax debate, but nevertheless I urge you to put this also at the forefront of your thoughts.

This has my support.

[Aquitayne]

Establishment of a Nation Act
Drafted by: Aquitayne;
Co-Drafted by: N/A

To the Senators of our yet-to-be-named nation,

REALIZING that the nation the NSG Senate is a governing body in a nation yet to be named,

REALIZING that although legislation continues to be debated and passed, there is not much known about the nation in which the Senate runs;

REALIZING that this nation currently has no laws other than the Marriage Freedom Act,

ASTONISHED that simple laws such as the acts of Murder, Arson, Rape, etc., have not been labeled as illegal,

ASTONISHED that the Senate has allowed this nation to exist in a, to a degree, state of anarchy;

MANDATES that a Senatorial Committee containing of no less and no more than ten (10) Senators be created to complete the following:

1) Hire a topographical firm to label the legal borders of this nation, and to mark such on parchment for official use;
2) Make a concise list of potential names for our nation,
3) Organize and complete the first annual National Census,
4) Create a list of acts, along with their definitions, as well as sentences, to be called illegal;

MANDATES that an annual decade Census be completed of the entire nation to;

1) Map citizens movements within the country (i.e Housing),
2) Gain an accurate number of citizens living within the country (i.e Population);

MANDATES that a national Constitution and Bill of Rights be drafted immediately,

MANDATES that the following services and infrastructure be constructed immediately:

1) Police, Fire, Paramedics
2) Public Schools
3) Hospitals
4) Prisons
5) Firehouses
6) Libraries

HEREBY provides the funds of Nationstates Standard Currency thirty-billion (NSC$30,000,000,000.00),

PUSHES the NSG Senate to pass more legislation to allow legal information to be obtained about our nation.

I expect this draft to get a good deal of opposition, but I believe it is important to have some sort of information about the country we're running.

Also, I know we're in the middle of intense tax debate, but nevertheless I urge you to put this also at the forefront of your thoughts.

You have my full support

Glad to hear it! Thank you!

[Chestaan]

Any bill with that in it will be voted down by me, and most likely the members of my party as well.

Chestaan said, "Is there a new draft that I'm not aware of? Because I still see the vast majority only being taxed as 15%", which confused me. It seemed like he wanted it higher.

I do want it higher.

[Imperiatom]

There are more communists than monarchists, and are you sure it will pass? The communists, red-greens and what was once the LA will vote against it, probably some of the independents to. And can you be sure that the Libertarian party will support it?

I am quite confident that a moderate bill such as this will easily pass, perhaps even with the support of some of the more moderate leftists, and certainly with the support of the right-wing of the Senate if they see some of the alternative proposals coming from the left.

That said, if the OP wishes to compromise with your side and turn this into a communist tax bill, we will be more than happy to oppose it and rally all the libertarians and rightist independents to join us in this. A communist tax bill will not pass.

That won't happen he is an impartial non-voting admin.

[Vazdania]

Not at all. "The Gospel of Wealth" teaches the rich that they should indeed keep their money flowing, in order to maximize not only their profits, but the profits of those around them. The higher the taxes are on the rich, the more likely they are to hoard it.

There is only so much that the rich can invest in. Are you trying to deny that the rich keep large amounts of money in bank accounts?

Not at all.

[Geilinor]

Keep it as is. Should we change the 5% rate to 10% and the 15% rate to 20% for those who want more taxes on the average person?

I urge you to submit the text as it is. We cannot risk alienating the Liberal Democrats by giving more concessions to the Monarchists and we cannot risk alienating the Monarchists by giving more concessions to the Communists.

National Tax Act

Urgency: Very High

Drafted By: Geilinor

Co-Sponsors: Evraim, Wolfmanne, Gallup, Irredento

---

The government of our yet to be named nation:

RECOGNIZING: the necessity of taxation if the state and government are to be sustained and preserved

ESTABLISHING: a national code of taxation applicable to all citizens and residents, without exception, unless otherwise authorized by the Senate

DEFINING: legal nonmedical drugs as substances, with the exception of foods and non-alcoholic beverages, employed for purposes other than those approved by medical professionals for the treatment of aches, smarts, and illnesses, and which are lawful to possess and use in the aforementioned capacities

MANDATING: that the Senate begin the process of determining which drugs should be legal and which drugs should not be legal with all due urgency

STIPULATING: that the tax code shall operate as follows:

Income Taxes shall be levied at:
0.00% of income earned between 0.00 and 15,999.99 NSC shall be levied
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied
Any income above 1,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied at 45.00%

Sales Taxes shall be levied at:
For nonessential services: 7.25%
For gasoline: 2.50%
For publications, admission tickets to cultural events: 2.00%
For legal nonmedical drugs: 1.25%

Miscellaneous Taxes shall be levied at:
For corporate tax: 13.00%
For capital gains tax: 25.00%

I don't know if we'll raise enough revenue taxing average people that little.

[Geilinor]

Chestaan said, "Is there a new draft that I'm not aware of? Because I still see the vast majority only being taxed as 15%", which confused me. It seemed like he wanted it higher.

SIGNIFICANTLY higher. Like $50k at 35%.

35%? That will never pass. That rate higher than 20% won't work.

[Imperiatom]

Establishment of a Nation Act
Drafted by: Aquitayne;
Co-Drafted by: N/A

To the Senators of our yet-to-be-named nation,

REALIZING that the nation the NSG Senate is a governing body in a nation yet to be named,

REALIZING that although legislation continues to be debated and passed, there is not much known about the nation in which the Senate runs;

REALIZING that this nation currently has no laws other than the Marriage Freedom Act,

ASTONISHED that simple laws such as the acts of Murder, Arson, Rape, etc., have not been labeled as illegal,

ASTONISHED that the Senate has allowed this nation to exist in a, to a degree, state of anarchy;

MANDATES that a Senatorial Committee containing of no less and no more than ten (10) Senators be created to complete the following:

1) Hire a topographical firm to label the legal borders of this nation, and to mark such on parchment for official use;
2) Make a concise list of potential names for our nation,
3) Organize and complete the first annual National Census,
4) Create a list of acts, along with their definitions, as well as sentences, to be called illegal;

MANDATES that an annual decade Census be completed of the entire nation to;

1) Map citizens movements within the country (i.e Housing),
2) Gain an accurate number of citizens living within the country (i.e Population);

MANDATES that a national Constitution and Bill of Rights be drafted immediately,

MANDATES that the following services and infrastructure be constructed immediately:

1) Police, Fire, Paramedics
2) Public Schools
3) Hospitals
4) Prisons
5) Firehouses
6) Libraries

HEREBY provides the funds of Nationstates Standard Currency thirty-billion (NSC$30,000,000,000.00),

PUSHES the NSG Senate to pass more legislation to allow legal information to be obtained about our nation.

I expect this draft to get a good deal of opposition, but I believe it is important to have some sort of information about the country we're running.

Also, I know we're in the middle of intense tax debate, but nevertheless I urge you to put this also at the forefront of your thoughts.

It will be the first thing once the tax bill goes to chamber.

[Chestaan]

That is a fair ask. He sacrificed the introduction of a property tax of 1% on all property for the bill to pass.

The way it is right now, a person earning $50,000 a year will only pay 3 or 4% tax, about $2,000. That's not enough revenue if we're going to have social security and universal healthcare.

That's what I have been saying for a while. In fact, I would be surprised if that was enough to support even the basics such as a police force, army, justice system etc.

[Benomia]

2) Make a concise list of potential names for our nation,

No.

[Irredento]

I urge you to submit the text as it is. We cannot risk alienating the Liberal Democrats by giving more concessions to the Monarchists and we cannot risk alienating the Monarchists by giving more concessions to the Communists.

Although it's far from perfect, I do agree with this, and feel that it should be sent to the chamber as is so as not to alienate either side by moving to far to the left or right. The Communists will continue to push for a full on socialist tax system while the Monarchists will continue to push for minimal taxation and flat tax systems. I should know, I am one. Send it to the chamber and stop us bickering over it!

[Chestaan]

SIGNIFICANTLY higher. Like $50k at 35%.

35%? That will never pass. That rate higher than 20% won't work.

35% is incredibly reasonable. It's lower than most real life countries.

Also, don't the Lib Dems support a substantial social safety net? How do you hope to fund it?

[Vazdania]

I urge you to submit the text as it is. We cannot risk alienating the Liberal Democrats by giving more concessions to the Monarchists and we cannot risk alienating the Monarchists by giving more concessions to the Communists.

National Tax Act

Urgency: Very High

Drafted By: Geilinor

Co-Sponsors: Evraim, Wolfmanne, Gallup, Irredento

---

The government of our yet to be named nation:

RECOGNIZING: the necessity of taxation if the state and government are to be sustained and preserved

ESTABLISHING: a national code of taxation applicable to all citizens and residents, without exception, unless otherwise authorized by the Senate

DEFINING: legal nonmedical drugs as substances, with the exception of foods and non-alcoholic beverages, employed for purposes other than those approved by medical professionals for the treatment of aches, smarts, and illnesses, and which are lawful to possess and use in the aforementioned capacities

MANDATING: that the Senate begin the process of determining which drugs should be legal and which drugs should not be legal with all due urgency

STIPULATING: that the tax code shall operate as follows:

Income Taxes shall be levied at:
0.00% of income earned between 0.00 and 15,999.99 NSC shall be levied
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied
Any income above 1,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied at 45.00%

Sales Taxes shall be levied at:
For nonessential services: 7.25%
For gasoline: 2.50%
For publications, admission tickets to cultural events: 2.00%
For legal nonmedical drugs: 1.25%

Miscellaneous Taxes shall be levied at:
For corporate tax: 13.00%
For capital gains tax: 25.00%

I don't know if we'll raise enough revenue taxing average people that little.

Well I'd not be in opposition to a national sales tax of exactly one cent ($0.01) with the amount of money floating around people will likely be buying A LOT.

[Evraim]

I urge you to submit the text as it is. We cannot risk alienating the Liberal Democrats by giving more concessions to the Monarchists and we cannot risk alienating the Monarchists by giving more concessions to the Communists.

National Tax Act

Urgency: Very High

Drafted By: Geilinor

Co-Sponsors: Evraim, Wolfmanne, Gallup, Irredento

---

The government of our yet to be named nation:

RECOGNIZING: the necessity of taxation if the state and government are to be sustained and preserved

ESTABLISHING: a national code of taxation applicable to all citizens and residents, without exception, unless otherwise authorized by the Senate

DEFINING: legal nonmedical drugs as substances, with the exception of foods and non-alcoholic beverages, employed for purposes other than those approved by medical professionals for the treatment of aches, smarts, and illnesses, and which are lawful to possess and use in the aforementioned capacities

MANDATING: that the Senate begin the process of determining which drugs should be legal and which drugs should not be legal with all due urgency

STIPULATING: that the tax code shall operate as follows:

Income Taxes shall be levied at:
0.00% of income earned between 0.00 and 15,999.99 NSC shall be levied
5.00% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
15.00% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied
30.00% of income earned between 101,000.00 and 500,999.99 NSC shall be levied
40.00% of income earned between 501,000.00 and 1,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied
Any income above 1,000,000.00 NSC shall be levied at 45.00%

Sales Taxes shall be levied at:
For nonessential services: 7.25%
For gasoline: 2.50%
For publications, admission tickets to cultural events: 2.00%
For legal nonmedical drugs: 1.25%

Miscellaneous Taxes shall be levied at:
For corporate tax: 13.00%
For capital gains tax: 25.00%

I don't know if we'll raise enough revenue taxing average people that little.

At this point, I think it's this or nothing. If we raise the tax rates on the middle-class or the wealthy any higher, we'll isolate ourselves, and risk a political defeat in the Senate. We can debate the issue again later, but I would prefer to obtain funding now rather than later. Without taxes, governing the nation will be impossible, and I'm confident that this can pass.

[Geilinor]

We can make it this.
10% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
20% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied

The Communists wanted it a lot higher, but as a compromise we could make it a little higher. Those rates are what I originally intended.

[Aquitayne]

2) Make a concise list of potential names for our nation,

No.

Any specific reasons why not? The list doesn't have to be long, hell, it can be two choices - or even one - but the nation does need a name.

[Vazdania]

We can make it this.
10% of income earned between 16,000.00 and 50,999.99 NSC shall be levied
20% of income earned between 51,000.00 and 100,999.99 NSC shall be levied

The Communists wanted it a lot higher, but as a compromise we could make it a little higher. Those rates are what I originally intended.

Then the Monarchist's would vote NO