NSG Senate Coffee Shop (OLD THREAD, DO NOT POST)

[Arglorand]

I must point out to the Honorable Senator that until further notice there is no legislation on torture, which could also be used as a threat.

I am pretty sure, such legislation will be passed and I will support such act without exclusion clause.

There are other ways to levy threats if we must resort to such underhanded tactics, Senator. A PoW can be talked into a situation where he believes that we will ignore our own laws (which we will most definitely not, I do hope, Senator)

[Ceannairceach]

This is a civil nation, Senator. Killing prisoners of war who have surrendered peacefully should be treated honorably.

We could do this by issuing internal memo to disallow killing however for intelligence purposes, we must have such clause.

The loophole still exists, Senator. You are wrong.

Though honestly, I doubt that any foreign agent would be that knowledgeable of our laws to know either way.

[Great Nepal]

I am pretty sure, such legislation will be passed and I will support such act without exclusion clause.

There are other ways to levy threats if we must resort to such underhanded tactics, Senator. A PoW can be talked into a situation where he believes that we will ignore our own laws (which we will most definitely not, I do hope, Senator)

Wouldn't it work better if we just make it as an exception and issue internal memorandum disallowing such execution?

[New Waterford]

Anti-Capital Punishment Act

Urgency: Moderate

Drafted by: Arglorand

Co-Sponsors: The Realm of God, The New Sea Territory, Ceannairceach, Fulflood, Evraim, Britcan

---

The government of our nation,

AWARE that as of yet we have no laws concerning capital punishment,

BELIEVING that such a situation is unacceptable,

MAINTAINS that no matter how great or small the crime, capital punishment is an archaic and brutal custom that must not be given precedent or legality in modern law. Capital punishment is a doctrine that forbids our criminals the chance to rehabilitation and reduces the tools of law to mere tools of revenge. As such, our government MANDATES that capital punishment in all its forms must be forbidden and hereby outlaws capital punishment in our nation entirely.

I'd recommend defining 'capital punishment'.

[Arglorand]

I'd recommend defining 'capital punishment'.

A good suggestion. I will do this.

[Ceannairceach]

There are other ways to levy threats if we must resort to such underhanded tactics, Senator. A PoW can be talked into a situation where he believes that we will ignore our own laws (which we will most definitely not, I do hope, Senator)

Wouldn't it work better if we just make it as an exception and issue internal memorandum disallowing such execution?

No.

[Zweite Alaje]

And that would be an incorrect comparison Senator. The intent of the murderer and the state have of opposing effects. A murder's actions are a danger to public safety, the state's action of execution permanently eliminates a dangerous individual.

And any innocents who have been wrongly accused and convicted.

That is the chance that must be taken.

[Arglorand]

And any innocents who have been wrongly accused and convicted.

That is the chance that must be taken.

So you claim, Senator. We claim otherwise.

[Glasgia]

1.) Does this organization truly believe that the self is property to be owned and sold?

No, it did not say upholding all principles of said philosophers. It said that it upheld principles of said philosophers. "Upholding the principles" or "Upholding all principles" and you'd have been fine. "Upholding principles" obviously implies the bill upholds some of the philosophers' principles but not neccessarily all.

2.) This, essentially, denies personhood to fetuses and to intelligent animals. I would remind my colleagues in the Senate that this resolution, unlike the PCC, is not addressed as "provisional" or "temporary". If it is passed, this hallowed body would be obligated to repeal it in order to pass through another resolution recognizing the rights of primates, for example.

I believe that most would agree in saying the rights of intelligent non-human species should be enacted in a seperate bill. You may pass that bill if you wish.

3.) The age of zero? Zero days? Zero years? This wording is more than poor. It is destitute.

Senator, zero days and zero years both correspond to the same period of time.

4.) Sex is the biological reality. Gender is a sociological construct. This alone would cause me to oppose the resolution.

I think you will find that both are a biological reality, but gender can also be used as a social construct. While perhaps Senator Nepal could have specified his meaning in the definitions, the article is not hindered by either meaning.

5.) The implication of this section is that the government grants people there inalienable rights. Nobody of liberal political persuasion could accept this as a legitimate statement.

I do not see the problem here. Do you wish for the government not to grant idividuals their rights?

6.) Does this apply to dependents as well? Either way, it needs more clarification.

If a person is dependent on medical treatment, the article states they have the right to refuse such treatment. I believe this is right, though it must be made medical practice to talk through the implications of such a choice. However, that is for the medical care services nd not the government.

[Hannibaelica]

I do not see the problem here. Do you wish for the government not to grant idividuals their rights?

The problem is that the government does not "grant" individuals' rights, the individuals already hold those rights. Saying that the government has the power to grant rights implies that they can also take them away.

[Great Nepal]

The problem is that the government does not "grant" individuals' rights, the individuals already hold those rights. Saying that the government has the power to grant rights implies that they can also take them away.

Government protects said rights, and to be protected, said rights must be in writing.

[Glasgia]

The problem is that the government does not "grant" individuals' rights, the individuals already hold those rights. Saying that the government has the power to grant rights implies that they can also take them away.

And if the government wishes they can take away the rights. However, I believe no party within this senate would take such an action.

[Hannibaelica]

Government protects said rights, and to be protected, said rights must be in writing.

Agreed. Unfortunately, the bill says "grants" not "recognizes" or "protects"

[Hannibaelica]

And if the government wishes they can take away the rights. However, I believe no party within this senate would take such an action.

The government should not be enabled to take them away. However, this is an issue to be settled in a constitution, not a bill, which is why I voted in favor of it anyway.

[Othelos]

Anti-Capital Punishment Act

Urgency: Moderate

Drafted by: Arglorand

Co-Sponsors: The Realm of God, The New Sea Territory, Ceannairceach, Fulflood, Evraim, Britcan

---

The government of our nation,

AWARE that as of yet we have no laws concerning capital punishment,

BELIEVING that such a situation is unacceptable,

MAINTAINS that no matter how great or small the crime, capital punishment is an archaic and brutal custom that must not be given precedent or legality in modern law. Capital punishment is a doctrine that forbids our criminals the chance to rehabilitation and reduces the tools of law to mere tools of revenge. As such, our government MANDATES that capital punishment in all its forms must be forbidden and hereby outlaws capital punishment in our nation entirely.

Addendum: Capital punishment is DEFINED as any form of punishment levied by way of ending the criminal's life.

This has my support; I don't think anyone has the right to take another person's life.

[Evraim]

And if the government wishes they can take away the rights. However, I believe no party within this senate would take such an action.

It does not matter. All liberal parties with a voice in the Senate should oppose the philosophical implications of passing a resolution which states that the government grants an individual inalienable rights, especially when the resolution is unnecessary in the first place. Also, I responded to your arguments in the Senate thread. I'm still waiting for a rationale as to why free speech has been confined to this thread when it wasn't so before.

The government should not be enabled to take them away. However, this is an issue to be settled in a constitution, not a bill, which is why I voted in favor of it anyway.

We have a constitution. We're probably not going to get another one any time soon. So, supporting this resolution effectively means that you recognize that inalienable rights are granted or taken away by the government, and that they do not exist naturally.

[Hannibaelica]

And if the government wishes they can take away the rights. However, I believe no party within this senate would take such an action.

It does not matter. All liberal parties with a voice in the Senate should oppose the philosophical implications of passing a resolution which states that the government grants an individual inalienable rights, especially when the resolution is unnecessary in the first place. Also, I responded to your arguments in the Senate thread. I'm still waiting for a rationale as to why free speech has been confined to this thread when it wasn't so before.

The government should not be enabled to take them away. However, this is an issue to be settled in a constitution, not a bill, which is why I voted in favor of it anyway.

We have a constitution. We're probably not going to get another one any time soon. So, supporting this resolution effectively means that you recognize that inalienable rights are granted or taken away by the government, and that they do not exist naturally.

Oh I didn't know about the constitution. Still though, constitutions can be amended. Do we have a bill of rights?

[Evraim]

Oh I didn't know about the constitution. Still though, constitutions can be amended. Do we have a bill of rights?

No. And, presuming that the government subscribes to the philosophies of Locke and Rousseau, an actual bill of rights is unnecessary. In any case, the current resolution is contrary to every principle established by the Enlightenment.

[Kouralia]

Policing and Law Enforcement Act (2013)

Policing and Law Enforcement Act (2013)

Urgency: UTMOST

Drafted by: Senator Kouralia of the USLP

Co-Sponsors:

---

The government of our nation,

AWARE that our fair land has no formalised method of dealing with criminals,

UNDERSTANDING that such a situation is objectively unacceptable,

RECOMMENDING that the senate hereby moves to form a uniformed, official and publicly accountable Police Force/Police Forces along the following lines.

---

A : Formation of Localised Constabularies and Equivalents
1.0 - The formation of the Regional Marshals and Temporary Policing Coordination bureau

1.1 - Acknowledging that the creation of a professional and qualified Police Force takes time, we must not suffer temporary anarchy.
1.2 - In order to overcome this, until such time as a professional organisation can be formed, a system of elected deputies shall exist. Each geographically-divided region shall be mandated to elect approximately 5% of its populaton to serve part-time as a 'Regional Marshal' [hereafter RM]. Their job shall be to temporarily inter people under the society's interpretation of the laws. Additionally, a Temporary Policing Coordination Bureau [hereafter TPCB] shall be formed to manage, enlist, dismiss and investigate the RMs.
1.3 - Acknowledging that this leaves the situation open to abuse, an alert of any act committed by an RM shall be transmitted to the TPCB by the RM him/herself. The TPCB shall be able to order any RM to cease and desist in any activities.
1.4 - All RM shall be accountable for their actions, which shall be reviewed by the Ministry of Justice (National Security Act) following the dissolution of the RM and TPCB. If they are found to be unlawful then a punishment can be thusly applied.
1.5 - Any RM may be formally relieved of their position by the TPCB if a complaint regarding them is found to be truthful and of acceptable severity.

2.0 - The dissolution of the Regional Marshals and Temporary Policing Coordination Bureau

2.1 - The Dissolution of the RM and TPCB shall occur by the order of a judge of a Crown Court (What would we call this?), with each order only being able to be passed when the Officers Commanding of any relevant regional Constabularies agree that they are capable of undertaking the Law Enforcement Duties in that area.
2.2 - Any RM who refuses to surrender any claim to that position when required to do so by the legal authority of the TCPB or a Crown Court will be charged with Impersonating a Police Officer.

3.0 - Formation of Regional Constabularies

3.1 - Jurisdictional Districts shall be determined by a Committee of the Ministry of Justice (National Security Act), and each shall have a Constabulary formed within it. (e.g. Metropolitan Constabulary).
3.2 - The recruitment of officers into each Constabulary shall be handled by the relevant officials in that Constabulary, with final decisions remaining with that Constabulary.
3.3 - Requirements for recruitment will be determined by each Constabulary, however the following shall be mandated as a minimum:

• Holding a Current Drivers License (Following the creation of a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency)
• Ability to swim
• No past violent or serious crimes
• Non-membership of any Party Paramilitary (e.g. the Security Branch of the People's Proletarian Force)
• Passing of a Standardised Fitness Test, the contents of which are to be determined.

B : Accountability of Localised Constabularies and Equivalents
1.0 - Accountability of Regional Marshals

1.1 - All RM shall be held accountable to the TPCB, and the TPCB has complete ability to mandate removal of an RM for violation of organisational ethics.
1.2 - The TPCB is accountable to the elected Minister of the Ministry of Justice (National Security Act), and the request for its dissolvement shall come from him/her alone.

2.0 - Accountability of Local Constabularies

Please provide the section code (e.g. B:1.1) when suggesting improvements. Don't start 'Ayeing' or 'Naying' yet, it's not finished. I'm mostly looking for approval of my standard of writing the bill.

[Evraim]

Policing and Law Enforcement Act (2013)

Policing and Law Enforcement Act (2013)

Urgency: UTMOST

Drafted by: Senator Kouralia of the USLP

Co-Sponsors:

---

The government of our nation,

AWARE that our fair land has no formalised method of dealing with criminals,

UNDERSTANDING that such a situation is objectively unacceptable,

RECOMMENDING that the senate hereby moves to form a uniformed, official and publicly accountable Police Force/Police Forces along the following lines.

---

A : Formation of Localised Constabularies and Equivalents
1.0 - The formation of the Regional Marshals and Temporary Policing Coordination bureau

1.1 - Acknowledging that the creation of a professional and qualified Police Force takes time, we must not suffer temporary anarchy.
1.2 - In order to overcome this, until such time as a professional organisation can be formed, a system of elected deputies shall exist. Each geographically-divided region shall be mandated to elect approximately 5% of its populaton to serve part-time as a 'Regional Marshal' [hereafter RM]. Their job shall be to temporarily inter people under the society's interpretation of the laws. Additionally, a Temporary Policing Coordination Bureau [hereafter TPCB] shall be formed to manage, enlist, dismiss and investigate the RMs.
1.3 - Acknowledging that this leaves the situation open to abuse, an alert of any act committed by an RM shall be transmitted to the TPCB by the RM him/herself. The TPCB shall be able to order any RM to cease and desist in any activities.
1.4 - All RM shall be accountable for their actions, which shall be reviewed by the Ministry of Justice (National Security Act) following the dissolution of the RM and TPCB. If they are found to be unlawful then a punishment can be thusly applied.
1.5 - Any RM may be formally relieved of their position by the TPCB if a complaint regarding them is found to be truthful and of acceptable severity.

2.0 - The dissolution of the Regional Marshals and Temporary Policing Coordination Bureau

2.1 - The Dissolution of the RM and TPCB shall occur by the order of a judge of a Crown Court (What would we call this?), with each order only being able to be passed when the Officers Commanding of any relevant regional Constabularies agree that they are capable of undertaking the Law Enforcement Duties in that area.
2.2 - Any RM who refuses to surrender any claim to that position when required to do so by the legal authority of the TCPB or a Crown Court will be charged with Impersonating a Police Officer.

3.0 - Formation of Regional Constabularies

3.1 - Jurisdictional Districts shall be determined by a Committee of the Ministry of Justice (National Security Act), and each shall have a Constabulary formed within it. (e.g. Metropolitan Constabulary).
3.2 - The recruitment of officers into each Constabulary shall be handled by the relevant officials in that Constabulary, with final decisions remaining with that Constabulary.
3.3 - Requirements for recruitment will be determined by each Constabulary, however the following shall be mandated as a minimum:

• Holding a Current Drivers License (Following the creation of a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency)
• Ability to swim
• No past violent or serious crimes
• Non-membership of any Party Paramilitary (e.g. the Security Branch of the People's Proletarian Force)
• Passing of a Standardised Fitness Test, the contents of which are to be determined.

B : Accountability of Localised Constabularies and Equivalents
1.0 - Accountability of Regional Marshals

1.1 - All RM shall be held accountable to the TPCB, and the TPCB has complete ability to mandate removal of an RM for violation of organisational ethics.
1.2 - The TPCB is accountable to the elected Minister of the Ministry of Justice (National Security Act), and the request for its dissolvement shall come from him/her alone.

2.0 - Accountability of Local Constabularies

Please provide the section code (e.g. B:1.1) when suggesting improvements. Don't start 'Ayeing' or 'Naying' yet, it's not finished. I'm mostly looking for approval of my standard of writing the bill.

Section 1.2 states that, within each region, five percent (5%) of the population will be given positions as regional marshals. Is this not somewhat excessive considering our budgetary limitations?

[Kouralia]

Policing and Law Enforcement Act (2013)

Please provide the section code (e.g. B:1.1) when suggesting improvements. Don't start 'Ayeing' or 'Naying' yet, it's not finished. I'm mostly looking for approval of my standard of writing the bill.

Section 1.2 states that, within each region, five percent (5%) of the population will be given positions as regional marshals. Is this not somewhat excessive considering our budgetary limitations?

What number do you suggest?

[New Freedomstan]

Policing and Law Enforcement Act (2013)

Please provide the section code (e.g. B:1.1) when suggesting improvements. Don't start 'Ayeing' or 'Naying' yet, it's not finished. I'm mostly looking for approval of my standard of writing the bill.

Section 1.2 states that, within each region, five percent (5%) of the population will be given positions as regional marshals. Is this not somewhat excessive considering our budgetary limitations?

As they are part-time and temporary law enforcers, I'd suppose it'd be volunteer-based and unpaid, a civil service until a proper judicial system is in place.

[Evraim]

Section 1.2 states that, within each region, five percent (5%) of the population will be given positions as regional marshals. Is this not somewhat excessive considering our budgetary limitations?

What number do you suggest?

It depends on the cost. If the office of regional marshal is a paid position, I would recommend perhaps one percent (1%) of the population of each region. If it is, as Senator Freedom mentioned, a volunteer position, I shall be obliged to withdraw my questions regarding the percentages.

[Othelos]

Policing and Law Enforcement Act (2013)

Policing and Law Enforcement Act (2013)

Urgency: UTMOST

Drafted by: Senator Kouralia of the USLP

Co-Sponsors:

---

The government of our nation,

AWARE that our fair land has no formalised method of dealing with criminals,

UNDERSTANDING that such a situation is objectively unacceptable,

RECOMMENDING that the senate hereby moves to form a uniformed, official and publicly accountable Police Force/Police Forces along the following lines.

---

A : Formation of Localised Constabularies and Equivalents
1.0 - The formation of the Regional Marshals and Temporary Policing Coordination bureau

1.1 - Acknowledging that the creation of a professional and qualified Police Force takes time, we must not suffer temporary anarchy.
1.2 - In order to overcome this, until such time as a professional organisation can be formed, a system of elected deputies shall exist. Each geographically-divided region shall be mandated to elect approximately 5% of its populaton to serve part-time as a 'Regional Marshal' [hereafter RM]. Their job shall be to temporarily inter people under the society's interpretation of the laws. Additionally, a Temporary Policing Coordination Bureau [hereafter TPCB] shall be formed to manage, enlist, dismiss and investigate the RMs.
1.3 - Acknowledging that this leaves the situation open to abuse, an alert of any act committed by an RM shall be transmitted to the TPCB by the RM him/herself. The TPCB shall be able to order any RM to cease and desist in any activities.
1.4 - All RM shall be accountable for their actions, which shall be reviewed by the Ministry of Justice (National Security Act) following the dissolution of the RM and TPCB. If they are found to be unlawful then a punishment can be thusly applied.
1.5 - Any RM may be formally relieved of their position by the TPCB if a complaint regarding them is found to be truthful and of acceptable severity.

2.0 - The dissolution of the Regional Marshals and Temporary Policing Coordination Bureau

2.1 - The Dissolution of the RM and TPCB shall occur by the order of a judge of a Crown Court (What would we call this?), with each order only being able to be passed when the Officers Commanding of any relevant regional Constabularies agree that they are capable of undertaking the Law Enforcement Duties in that area.
2.2 - Any RM who refuses to surrender any claim to that position when required to do so by the legal authority of the TCPB or a Crown Court will be charged with Impersonating a Police Officer.

3.0 - Formation of Regional Constabularies

3.1 - Jurisdictional Districts shall be determined by a Committee of the Ministry of Justice (National Security Act), and each shall have a Constabulary formed within it. (e.g. Metropolitan Constabulary).
3.2 - The recruitment of officers into each Constabulary shall be handled by the relevant officials in that Constabulary, with final decisions remaining with that Constabulary.
3.3 - Requirements for recruitment will be determined by each Constabulary, however the following shall be mandated as a minimum:

• Holding a Current Drivers License (Following the creation of a Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency)
• Ability to swim
• No past violent or serious crimes
• Non-membership of any Party Paramilitary (e.g. the Security Branch of the People's Proletarian Force)
• Passing of a Standardised Fitness Test, the contents of which are to be determined.

B : Accountability of Localised Constabularies and Equivalents
1.0 - Accountability of Regional Marshals

1.1 - All RM shall be held accountable to the TPCB, and the TPCB has complete ability to mandate removal of an RM for violation of organisational ethics.
1.2 - The TPCB is accountable to the elected Minister of the Ministry of Justice (National Security Act), and the request for its dissolvement shall come from him/her alone.

2.0 - Accountability of Local Constabularies

Please provide the section code (e.g. B:1.1) when suggesting improvements. Don't start 'Ayeing' or 'Naying' yet, it's not finished. I'm mostly looking for approval of my standard of writing the bill.

The quality seems pretty good so far. I'll wait to make any criticisms until you finish completely.

[Zweite Alaje]

Policing and Law Enforcement Act (2013)

Please provide the section code (e.g. B:1.1) when suggesting improvements. Don't start 'Ayeing' or 'Naying' yet, it's not finished. I'm mostly looking for approval of my standard of writing the bill.

The quality seems pretty good so far. I'll wait to make any criticisms until you finish completely.

I agree, this is a very well written proposal.