NSG Senate Coffee Shop (OLD THREAD, DO NOT POST)

[Zweite Alaje]

I've done no such thing. I've described an act of their "profession", you can't deny that fact.

No, you have not. You insulted them and misrepresented them in a way that can be construed as fact. Stop it.

The only difference would be their price would probably be higher than five dollars, but it is the same nonetheless. It isn't disrespectful to describe occurrences within a profession. That like saying it is insulting to say a lumberjack hacks at trees with an axe or saw.

Their is nothing reactionary about not wanting whore behavior to become "acceptable".

Yes there is. Sex is not immoral, despite what texts written thousands of years ago might say.

I never said sex is inherently immoral, but prioritizing it by legalizing prostitution will only serve to encourage the sexualization of the national culture.

[Ceannairceach]

No, you have not. You insulted them and misrepresented them in a way that can be construed as fact. Stop it.

The only difference would be their price would probably be higher than five dollars, but it is the same nonetheless. It isn't disrespectful to describe occurrences within a profession. That like saying it is insulting to say a lumberjack hacks at trees with an axe or saw.

Your description was stereotypical and not at all accurate.

[Ceannairceach]

Due to the circular nature of these arguments, I move to either move this bill in its most recent form to the queue or to shelve it for another day.

[Trotskylvania]

Due to the circular nature of these arguments, I move to either move this bill in its most recent form to the queue or to shelve it for another day.

I believe it's time to put it in the queue. Seconded I suppose.

[Zweite Alaje]

We'll see what comes of this, I suppose.

[Othelos]

Still up for debate:

Date: 27th of March, 2013 CE
Urgency: high
Category: Improvement on human and civil rights
Drafted by: Senator Albul

Issue: A rise in the involuntary sex slave trade industry and the sale of sex slaves on the black market

The Civil Treatment Act

Senator Albul proposes the legalization and regulation of the sex industry, in order to free those abused by the involuntary sex slave trade industry and to improve the lives of those who wish to be involved in the sex industry.

1) Any and all forms of slavery will be discontinued and condemned by the government. Those that are found possessing and/or selling slaves shall be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Possible punishments include a minimum of 20 years in prison and/or a minimum fine of 500,000 NSD per slave.

a) Pimping, where a non-sex-worker assumes the role of manager to a sex worker and takes a cut of the sex worker's earnings, will be prohibited and should be punishable with a minimum of 15 years in prison and/or a minimum fine of 400,000 NSD per sex worker.

b) Those forced in the sex industry shall be released from the custody of their former owners. The sex industry will be nationalized, in order to prevent further abuses in the industry. Those wishing to join the sex industry must sign up in the nearest government office.

2) Workers in the nationalized sex industry must fill out an employment form and receive a license. They must have enough tests to prove competency and safety for both clients and workers alike. Sex workers must also complete regular license tests in order to ensure the safety of both the worker and the client.

a) License tests must be performed monthly, to prevent the transmission of diseases.
b) All sex workers should either operate as self-employed or as members of non-hierarchical sex workers' associations.

3) Workers must also obtain the same amount of benefits as any other worker. This may include, but is not limited to, health insurance and dental care. Workers may also file complaints concerning abusive behavior from clients.

---

The sex industry should be heavily regulated with its workers having the same rights as other workers.

Opposed, because it doesn't prevent children/animals/etc. from entering the sex trade.

It also doesn't specifically state what the "sex industry" is (ex. do workers in factories creating condoms have to get a license?).

Also, what happens to an unregistered prostitute? Jail, fees, etc.?

[Maklohi Vai]

If this seems racy for the conservatives, just wait for the act of which I've been thinking.

The Clean Cannabis Act

It will legalize and regulate the marijuana industry.

Speaking of cannabis whatever happened to that Totally Stoned Party?

They got a little too high and mighty for us mere Senators. You could say they're out of it.

[Trotskylvania]

Opposed, because it doesn't prevent children/animals/etc. from entering the sex trade.

It also doesn't specifically state what the "sex industry" is (ex. do workers in factories creating condoms have to get a license?).

Also, what happens to an unregistered prostitute? Jail, fees, etc.?

Uh, yes it does. The act only talks of sex workers, and nothing in the act could be construed as to limit that only to adults.

[Agritum]

Speaking of cannabis whatever happened to that Totally Stoned Party?

They got a little too high and mighty for us mere Senators. You could say they're out of it.

They merged with TR.

[Yankee Empire]

Indeed, we must respect them enough to force them out of such a degrading and dignity-less occupation. So that they my become an individual of use to society.

Without prostitution, there would be more men going out and raping women. Don't tell me you would rather see that in the name of morals.

So your supporting this legislation to satisfy Rapists!

You don't think there's a better alternative?

[Maklohi Vai]

They got a little too high and mighty for us mere Senators. You could say they're out of it.

They merged with TR.

I know, I was just... never mind.

[New Freedomstan]

Without prostitution, there would be more men going out and raping women. Don't tell me you would rather see that in the name of morals.

So your supporting this legislation to satisfy Rapists!

You don't think there's a better alternative?

... what? The Communist Party has put forward a bill that'd protect the women that work in the sex industry against those who would abuse them, and you claim this is in the benefit of "rapists"? How does this make any sort of sense?

[Wolfmanne]

Thoughts on this?

Date: 27th of March, 2013 CE
Urgency: high
Category: Improvement on human and civil rights
Drafted by: Senator Albul

Issue: A rise in the involuntary sex slave trade industry and the sale of sex slaves on the black market

The Civil Treatment Act

Senator Albul proposes the legalization and regulation of the sex industry, in order to free those abused by the involuntary sex slave trade industry and to improve the lives of those who wish to be involved in the sex industry.

1) Any and all forms of slavery will be discontinued and condemned by the government. Those that are found possessing and/or selling slaves shall be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Possible punishments include a minimum of 20 years in prison and/or a minimum fine of 500,000 NSD per slave.

a) Pimping, where a non-sex-worker assumes the role of manager to a sex worker and takes a cut of the sex worker's earnings, will be prohibited and should be punishable with a minimum of 15 years in prison and/or a minimum fine of 400,000 NSD per sex worker.

b) Those forced in the sex industry shall be released from the custody of their former owners. The sex industry will be nationalized, in order to prevent further abuses in the industry. Those wishing to join the sex industry must sign up in the nearest government office.

2) Workers in the nationalized sex industry must fill out an employment form and receive a license. They must have enough tests to prove competency and safety for both clients and workers alike. Sex workers must also complete regular license tests in order to ensure the safety of both the worker and the client.

a) License tests must be performed monthly, to prevent the transmission of diseases.
b) All sex workers should either operate as self-employed or as members of non-hierarchical sex workers' associations.

3) Workers must also obtain the same amount of benefits as any other worker. This may include, but is not limited to, health insurance and dental care. Workers may also file complaints concerning abusive behavior from clients.

---

The sex industry should be heavily regulated with its workers having the same rights as other workers.

---

As for the paramilitaries, I believe the Communist party goes against that. That's the socialist party.

I strongly oppose this, for several reason:

1. Firstly, whilst I'm fine with there being a sex industry, I don't like the idea of my tax money being used to sustain it. I see prostitution as morally offensive and although there are those who rely on their services for pleasure, I don't want to fund this industry and even worse, have it under name such as Aurentinian Sex. Sure, I could tolerate Aurentinian Railways, but funding something I find morally wrong. No. Just no.
2. Morality aside, nationalisation will only lead to inefficiency in the industry. It will mean that the competition will be taken out of the picture. Also, a publicly-owned corporation will not be able to profit from this, as it varies on the income an individual prostitute earns and the percentage of it taken by the government.

Also, Othelos raise some simple, legitimate concerns:

Opposed, because it doesn't prevent children/animals/etc. from entering the sex trade.

It also doesn't specifically state what the "sex industry" is (ex. do workers in factories creating condoms have to get a license?).

Also, what happens to an unregistered prostitute? Jail, fees, etc.?

Whilst I agree with regulation of the industry, I don't think we should pay for prostitutes to be prostitutes. I believe that a cost-effective registration system (the National Prostitute's Register) maintained by the Ministry of Health should be maintained, preferably through the stealth taxation of the prostitutes and not the nation as a whole. In order to be a licensed prostitute, you just need to submit yourself to regular medical screening and pass. Medical screening should be paid for at the expense of the prostitute and not the state in order to ensure fairness on the rest of the nation, but in the event of universal health care being implemented, then they would be covered by this. There is the argument that prostitutes will not be able to afford these costs, but in that case, they should simply pass the cost onto the client. I expect Othelos' and my concerns to be met if you want anything below a three-line whip against, on economic grounds, else it would be a compassionate vote.

[New Freedomstan]

Thoughts on this?

Date: 27th of March, 2013 CE
Urgency: high
Category: Improvement on human and civil rights
Drafted by: Senator Albul

Issue: A rise in the involuntary sex slave trade industry and the sale of sex slaves on the black market

The Civil Treatment Act

Senator Albul proposes the legalization and regulation of the sex industry, in order to free those abused by the involuntary sex slave trade industry and to improve the lives of those who wish to be involved in the sex industry.

1) Any and all forms of slavery will be discontinued and condemned by the government. Those that are found possessing and/or selling slaves shall be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Possible punishments include a minimum of 20 years in prison and/or a minimum fine of 500,000 NSD per slave.

a) Pimping, where a non-sex-worker assumes the role of manager to a sex worker and takes a cut of the sex worker's earnings, will be prohibited and should be punishable with a minimum of 15 years in prison and/or a minimum fine of 400,000 NSD per sex worker.

b) Those forced in the sex industry shall be released from the custody of their former owners. The sex industry will be nationalized, in order to prevent further abuses in the industry. Those wishing to join the sex industry must sign up in the nearest government office.

2) Workers in the nationalized sex industry must fill out an employment form and receive a license. They must have enough tests to prove competency and safety for both clients and workers alike. Sex workers must also complete regular license tests in order to ensure the safety of both the worker and the client.

a) License tests must be performed monthly, to prevent the transmission of diseases.
b) All sex workers should either operate as self-employed or as members of non-hierarchical sex workers' associations.

3) Workers must also obtain the same amount of benefits as any other worker. This may include, but is not limited to, health insurance and dental care. Workers may also file complaints concerning abusive behavior from clients.

---

The sex industry should be heavily regulated with its workers having the same rights as other workers.

---

As for the paramilitaries, I believe the Communist party goes against that. That's the socialist party.

I strongly oppose this, for several reason:

1. Firstly, whilst I'm fine with there being a sex industry, I don't like the idea of my tax money being used to sustain it. I see prostitution as morally offensive and although there are those who rely on their services for pleasure, I don't want to fund this industry and even worse, have it under name such as Aurentinian Sex. Sure, I could tolerate Aurentinian Railways, but funding something I find morally wrong. No. Just no.
2. Morality aside, nationalisation will only lead to inefficiency in the industry. It will mean that the competition will be taken out of the picture. Also, a publicly-owned corporation will not be able to profit from this, as it varies on the income an individual prostitute earns and the percentage of it taken by the government.

Also, Othelos raise some simple, legitimate concerns:

Opposed, because it doesn't prevent children/animals/etc. from entering the sex trade.

It also doesn't specifically state what the "sex industry" is (ex. do workers in factories creating condoms have to get a license?).

Also, what happens to an unregistered prostitute? Jail, fees, etc.?

Whilst I agree with regulation of the industry, I don't think we should pay for prostitutes to be prostitutes. I believe that a cost-effective registration system (the National Prostitute's Register) maintained by the Ministry of Health should be maintained, preferably through taxation of the prostitutes and not the nation as a whole. In order to be a licensed prostitute, you just need to submit yourself to regular medical screening and pass. Medical screening should be paid for at the expense of the prostitute and not the state in order to ensure fairness on the rest of the nation, but in the event of universal health care being implemented, then they would be covered by this. There is the argument that prostitutes will not be able to afford these costs, but in that case, they should simply pass the cost onto the client. I expect Othelos' and my concerns to be met if you want anything below a three-line whip against, on economic grounds, else it would be a compassionate vote.

I personally agree with Senator Wolfmanne on this, and must suggest that the bill include the sex industry will be self-sustaining, and not require financial aid from the state but rely on charging those who use their service.

[Great Nepal]

Due to the circular nature of these arguments, I move to either move this bill in its most recent form to the queue or to shelve it for another day.

Since the arguments have been circular and matter is not of high importance, I second the idea to shelve it for another day, perhaps when we have nothing to debate about.

[CTALNH]

So your supporting this legislation to satisfy Rapists!

You don't think there's a better alternative?

... what? The Communist Party has put forward a bill that'd protect the women that work in the sex industry against those who would abuse them, and you claim this is in the benefit of "rapists"? How does this make any sort of sense?

National state brothels The end.

[Artite]

... what? The Communist Party has put forward a bill that'd protect the women that work in the sex industry against those who would abuse them, and you claim this is in the benefit of "rapists"? How does this make any sort of sense?

National state brothels The end.

How about privatized brothels and just tax them reasonable amounts I am sure that their prices will be high so why not say 15 percent of their income for that year, it will create jobs keep the government hands "clean" of this business and we get a slice in the income,

[CTALNH]

National state brothels The end.

How about privatized brothels and just tax them reasonable amounts I am sure that their prices will be high so why not say 15 percent of their income for that year, it will create jobs keep the government hands "clean" of this business and we get a slice in the income,

No I hate the private sector.

Especially in this sector.

[Arglorand]

How about privatized brothels and just tax them reasonable amounts I am sure that their prices will be high so why not say 15 percent of their income for that year, it will create jobs keep the government hands "clean" of this business and we get a slice in the income,

No I hate the private sector.

Especially in this sector.

I'm sure as hell sure that few people will want to pay taxes to subsidize the sex industry.

[CTALNH]

No I hate the private sector.

Especially in this sector.

I'm sure as hell sure that few people will want to pay taxes to subsidize the sex industry.

Do you have an idea how much income the industry will bring in?


We won't even need to subsidize it.

[Britcan]

My opinion on the bill:

- There shouldn't be the option of them getting away with just a fine for practicing slavery.
- Tax it and regulate it, but don't nationalise it.
- All Sex workers must use proper birth control while selling their services. If the birth control fails they have the right to an abortion.
- Also sex workers must be over the legal age of consent and have sufficient mental capacity to consent. This should be obvious but there is nothing in the bill about it.

Change these things and you'll have my support.

[Artite]

@CTALNH
I am sure they won't mind if they get a tax reduction because of the profits of the brothels, it could do well on a local level and perhaps regional level, there are plenty of old, alone, recently left, and married men who need to let off some "steam" it could boost the economy now that would be something.

[Great Nepal]

Or, we could just give indivudal right to their reproductive organs and apply normal business rules to brothels...

[CTALNH]

@CTALNH
I am sure they won't mind if they get a tax reduction because of the profits of the brothels, it could do well on a local level and perhaps regional level, there are plenty of old, alone, recently left, and married men who need to let off some "steam" it could boost the economy now that would be something.

That too less municipal taxes because of the profit of the State Brothels.

[CTALNH]

Or, we could just give indivudal right to their reproductive organs and apply normal business rules to brothels...

what?