NSG Senate (OLD THREAD, DO NOT POST)

[Soldati Senza Confini]

A flat corporate tax rate hurts smaller corps more than what it does any good.

And I agree, heavy taxation is never good for businesses, although no taxation is bad for governments as well.

Hence my efforts to secure a progressive corporate tax amendment. The status qou could pass without amendments, and the amendments proposed by the left-leaning parties lack enough appeal to do anything other than hinder this resolution from passing.

Indeed, a flat business tax of 15% across the board for every dollar in profit would ruin the businesses who need it.

A comprehensive tax program could be implemented instead of this.

[Geilinor]

It's called raising taxes later, if necessary.

And the libertarians are fine with this? Why waste our time with this bill, if we will have to be constantly amending it? Why not get it right first time?

Also, do I take it then, that the senator agrees with higher tax rates, of at least 40% if we want an adequate health service, in the future?

The Libertarians don't want social welfare or universal healthcare at all. Most Communists and Red-Greens are against this proposal, so Libertarian and Monarchist support will be helpful right now. When we get to welfare and healthcare, LD and PC will be closer to Communists and Red-Greens, with rightists in opposition.

[Geilinor]

It depends on what our other expenditures cost.

Of course, senator, but you will not I am just being realistic here. If tax rates had to be raised, on average incomes, to 40% in order to fund universal healthcare, would you support such a rise?

That won't happen. Japan has universal healthcare with low taxes on the average income. Also, I don't think the average Canadian or Australian pays 40% either.

[Geilinor]

You have a Libertarian Monarchist's support of the Bill.. I'm sure that the Libertarians will support this.

But I doubt that they will support further tax rises to fund social welfare and healthcare.

But the Communists and Red-Greens will. The Liberal Democrats would be open to future changes. On this bill, the left is opposed, on welfare and healthcare, the right will be opposed.

[Polvia]

A two year tax exemption? That sounds like enough time for industries to prepare for the tax changes.

Furthermore, all starting businesses would:

1) Be exempt from paying corporate tax their first two years in business.
2) Only have to pay half the set corporate tax rate their third year in business.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

A two year tax exemption? That sounds like enough time for industries to prepare for the tax changes.

Furthermore, all starting businesses would:

1) Be exempt from paying corporate tax their first two years in business.
2) Only have to pay half the set corporate tax rate their third year in business.

The only thing I would not agree on is the zero tax on corporations which profits are from 1-1 million. There is no way this can pass with success if there are no taxes on small corps. But also, if we raise the taxes too much on them, the left will not see the end of it from the rightist and pro-business people like myself.

Also, I think clumping small businesses with corps is a bad idea.

[Geilinor]

Senatorial Limitation Act will now shift over to the Coffee Shop, where it will be more appropriate to discuss modifications.

Now, we will begin debate on the National Tax Act. You may initiate discussion.

Honourable Senators,
I present the following as a potential revision. By eliminating taxes for business for their first two years in business, and a reduced rate the third year, this revision helps starting businesses and offers incentives for unionization and cooperatives..

The revision sounds good. Who supports the motion to amend this bill?

[Regnum Dominae]

Honourable Senators,
I present the following as a potential revision. By eliminating taxes for business for their first two years in business, and a reduced rate the third year, this revision helps starting businesses and offers incentives for unionization and cooperatives..

The revision sounds good. Who supports the motion to amend this bill?

I support the amendment, minus the lower rates for socialist business models.

Keep in mind that this is not a guarantee of support for this bill; I intend to vote strategically after carefully observing the early stages of voting.

[Geilinor]

Actually, I do not support the amendment because it gives incentives to socialist business models.

[Ziegenhain]

I oppose the amendment on the grounds that it is biased towards businesses that use a socialistic model.

[Regnum Dominae]

I oppose the amendment on the grounds that it is biased towards businesses that use a socialistic model.

Seconded.

[Irredento]

Actually, I do not support the amendment because it gives incentives to socialist business models.

I agree.

[Regnum Dominae]

Actually, I do not support the amendment because it gives incentives to socialist business models.

I agree.

Thirded.

[Othelos]

I agree.

Thirded.

Fourthed.

[Ziegenhain]

Thirded.

Fourthed.

Fifthed.

[Polvia]

Seeing the opposition to the tax deductions granted to unionized and cooperative businesses. I propose this alternate version of the proposal to be amended to the bill, as a compromise.

For corporate tax up to 1.5 mil (small business): 10.00%

First two years of being in business: 0%
Third year: 5.00%
Fourth year and all following years: 10.00%

Larger business: 15%

First two years of being in business: 0%
Third year: 7.50%
Fourth year and all following years:15.00%

[Vietnam]

Fourthed.

Fifthed.

-1thed

[Regnum Dominae]

Fifthed.

-1thed

Too late.

[Vietnam]

-1thed

Too late.

</3

[Regnum Dominae]

Seeing the opposition to the tax deductions granted to unionized and cooperative businesses. I propose this alternate version of the proposal to be amended to the bill.

For corporate tax up to 1.5 mil (small business): 10.00%

First two years of being in business: 0%
Third year: 5.00%
Fourth year and all following years: 10.00%

Larger business: 15%

First two years of being in business: 0%
Third year: 7.50%
Fourth year and all following years:15.00%

Would this be that all income above 1.5m would be taxed at the higher rate, or that a business making 1,500,000 NSD would be paying much more tax than a business making 1,499,999 NSD?

[Geilinor]

Seeing the opposition to the tax deductions granted to unionized and cooperative businesses. I propose this alternate version of the proposal to be amended to the bill.

Would this be that all income above 1.5m would be taxed at the higher rate, or that a business making 1,500,000 NSD would be paying much more tax than a business making 1,499,999 NSD?

The higher rate would only apply to income above 1.5 mil, I believe. Tax rates are marginal to avoid penalizing those who move up to the lower end of the next tax bracket.

[Geilinor]

Seeing the opposition to the tax deductions granted to unionized and cooperative businesses. I propose this alternate version of the proposal to be amended to the bill, as a compromise.

For corporate tax up to 1.5 mil (small business): 10.00%

First two years of being in business: 0%
Third year: 5.00%
Fourth year and all following years: 10.00%

Larger business: 15%

First two years of being in business: 0%
Third year: 7.50%
Fourth year and all following years:15.00%

I support this amendment.

[Regnum Dominae]

Would this be that all income above 1.5m would be taxed at the higher rate, or that a business making 1,500,000 NSD would be paying much more tax than a business making 1,499,999 NSD?

The higher rate would only apply to income above 1.5 mil, I believe. Tax rates are marginal to avoid penalizing those who move up to the lower end of the next tax bracket.

Waiting from confirmation from Senator Polvia before I support the amendment.

[Othelos]

Is voting for the Senatorial Limitation Act still going?

[Regnum Dominae]

Is voting for the Senatorial Limitation Act still going?

It has been suspended while the bill is revised in the Coffee House. We are now debating a taxation bill.