Ultimate Football (Soccer) Thread (2012-2013)

[Ardboe Eire]

Arsenalllllll arsenalllllllllll arsenallllllll arsenallllllll arsenalllllllll
I think if arsenal can now bolster it's defense they can win a cup.
Remember we beat barca at the emirates if I recall......but got destroyed in the not camp cause fabregas got injured.
I think we can stay in the champions league this year.
Hopefully we don't end up losing 8-2 like last season

[TaQud]

Arsenalllllll arsenalllllllllll arsenallllllll arsenallllllll arsenalllllllll
I think if arsenal can now bolster it's defense they can win a cup.
Remember we beat barca at the emirates if I recall......but got destroyed in the not camp cause fabregas got injured.
I think we can stay in the champions league this year.
Hopefully we don't end up losing 8-2 like last season

haha

[Inter de Milano]

Arsenalllllll arsenalllllllllll arsenallllllll arsenallllllll arsenalllllllll
I think if arsenal can now bolster it's defense they can win a cup.
Remember we beat barca at the emirates if I recall......but got destroyed in the not camp cause fabregas got injured.
I think we can stay in the champions league this year.
Hopefully we don't end up losing 8-2 like last season

Arsenal won't win anything meaningful as long as Wenger is in charge. He won't spend! What happened to great transfers like Henry or Patrick Viera? Now you get mediocre players like Giroud and Gervinho. Sorry, but if RVP doesn't perform like last season, I would think them lucky to reach the Europa League this season.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Looks like AVB is now in charge of Tottenham, Watford booted Sean Dyche who will be replaced by Gianfranco Zola and Beckham is not going to play for 'Team GB' in the Olympics.

[Nadkor]

Arsenalllllll arsenalllllllllll arsenallllllll arsenallllllll arsenalllllllll
I think if arsenal can now bolster it's defense they can win a cup.
Remember we beat barca at the emirates if I recall......but got destroyed in the not camp cause fabregas got injured.
I think we can stay in the champions league this year.
Hopefully we don't end up losing 8-2 like last season

Arsenal won't win anything meaningful as long as Wenger is in charge. He won't spend! What happened to great transfers like Henry or Patrick Viera?

Henry was signed for £11m, Viera for £3.5m

Mertesacker was about £9m, Arteta about £10m, Andre Santos £6.5m Oxlade-Chamberlain about £13m, Gervinho about £11m, Podolski £11m, and Giroud £13m.

In the last year or so Wenger has spent about £73m.

Spending money isn't always the answer.

[I V Stalin]

Arsenal won't win anything meaningful as long as Wenger is in charge. He won't spend! What happened to great transfers like Henry or Patrick Viera?

In the last year or so Wenger has spent about £73m.

Spending money isn't always the answer.

Although, in fairness, without Mertesacker, Arteta and Santos there's no way in hell we would have finished top 4. Without Arteta, maybe even top half.

[I V Stalin]

...and Beckham is not going to play for 'Team GB' in the Olympics.

Damn right. I can't believe people are kicking up a fuss that Bellamy, Richards and Giggs were picked ahead of him. Let's see - that's a league cup winner and FA cup finalist, a league winner, and Ryan fucking Giggs, probably the most consistent top level performer in the English game in the last twenty years.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

...and Beckham is not going to play for 'Team GB' in the Olympics.

Damn right. I can't believe people are kicking up a fuss that Bellamy, Richards and Giggs were picked ahead of him. Let's see - that's a league cup winner and FA cup finalist, a league winner, and Ryan fucking Giggs, probably the most consistent top level performer in the English game in the last twenty years.

yeah pretty much...also far too much luggage there as well. Giggs is still playing top flight EPL footy...Beckham...errrr....

[Serrland]

Damn right. I can't believe people are kicking up a fuss that Bellamy, Richards and Giggs were picked ahead of him. Let's see - that's a league cup winner and FA cup finalist, a league winner, and Ryan fucking Giggs, probably the most consistent top level performer in the English game in the last twenty years.

yeah pretty much...also far too much luggage there as well. Giggs is still playing top flight EPL footy...Beckham...errrr....

Giggs I definitely understand. Richards, yeah, I get that, too - without meaning to diminish his formidable and ever-improving footballing talents, I think it might also be a bit of "well, you should have been in the Euro squad, so we'll throw you a bone and name you for Team GB" (which is fair enough in my book). Bellamy, though, I don't really get. Maybe they were just looking for another top Welshman? He's good on the pitch and all but I can't help but think of him as anything other than a meter and three quarters of testosterone covered by skin.

[Risottia]

...and Beckham is not going to play for 'Team GB' in the Olympics.

Damn right. I can't believe people are kicking up a fuss that Bellamy, Richards and Giggs were picked ahead of him. Let's see - that's a league cup winner and FA cup finalist, a league winner, and Ryan fucking Giggs, probably the most consistent top level performer in the English game in the last twenty years.

Ryan Giggs trumps Spice Boy even with the shoes tied up together.

[Risottia]

Well, I assume this is the new thread?

I want Tre Penne to go through...

Tre Penne... San Marino, right?

[Phoenigetuzstha]

Well, I assume this is the new thread?

I want Tre Penne to go through...

Tre Penne... San Marino, right?

Yup :')

[Inter de Milano]

Arsenal won't win anything meaningful as long as Wenger is in charge. He won't spend! What happened to great transfers like Henry or Patrick Viera?

Henry was signed for £11m, Viera for £3.5m

Mertesacker was about £9m, Arteta about £10m, Andre Santos £6.5m Oxlade-Chamberlain about £13m, Gervinho about £11m, Podolski £11m, and Giroud £13m.

In the last year or so Wenger has spent about £73m.

Spending money isn't always the answer.

I was also talking about the quality of the transfer. Giroud, Andre Santos, Oxlade-Chamberlain, etc. are mediocre or decent at best.

[Nadkor]

Henry was signed for £11m, Viera for £3.5m

Mertesacker was about £9m, Arteta about £10m, Andre Santos £6.5m Oxlade-Chamberlain about £13m, Gervinho about £11m, Podolski £11m, and Giroud £13m.

In the last year or so Wenger has spent about £73m.

Spending money isn't always the answer.

I was also talking about the quality of the transfer. Giroud, Andre Santos, Oxlade-Chamberlain, etc. are mediocre or decent at best.

When Henry was signed he'd been promising but not prolific in the French league, then pretty much flopped when he got his big move to Juve.

When Viera was signed he'd looked very good at Cannes when he was young, then had a season at Milan where he couldn't get out of the reserves.

That's the context in which Arsenal signed those players. In both cases they were promising youngsters who'd moved to big clubs and looked out of their depth. I appreciate that this is easy to forget in light of their later glories, but it does undermine somewhat your claim that the quality of a transfer like Giroud (how much have you seen him play? He scored 21 goals in the team that won the French league last season) or Oxlade-Chamberlain (who is 19, incredibly impressive, and has already played for England in the finals of a major tournament) is a failure.

[Central Lothian]

When Henry was signed he'd been promising but not prolific in the French league, then pretty much flopped when he got his big move to Juve.

When Viera was signed he'd looked very good at Cannes when he was young, then had a season at Milan where he couldn't get out of the reserves.

That's the context in which Arsenal signed those players. In both cases they were promising youngsters who'd moved to big clubs and looked out of their depth.

Or, in Henry's place, not being played in the correct position - IIRC, Henry was a winger until Arsenal brought him. Then Wenger saw that he was being played out of place and turned him into a striker before being turned into a handball player.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

I was also talking about the quality of the transfer. Giroud, Andre Santos, Oxlade-Chamberlain, etc. are mediocre or decent at best.

When Henry was signed he'd been promising but not prolific in the French league, then pretty much flopped when he got his big move to Juve.

When Viera was signed he'd looked very good at Cannes when he was young, then had a season at Milan where he couldn't get out of the reserves.

That's the context in which Arsenal signed those players. In both cases they were promising youngsters who'd moved to big clubs and looked out of their depth. I appreciate that this is easy to forget in light of their later glories, but it does undermine somewhat your claim that the quality of a transfer like Giroud (how much have you seen him play? He scored 21 goals in the team that won the French league last season) or Oxlade-Chamberlain (who is 19, incredibly impressive, and has already played for England in the finals of a major tournament) is a failure.

I quite like Oxlade-Chamberlain...and am glad that he's getting nicely blooded in the national team (along with Welbeck)...I hope he does not turn out to be another false dawn for the national side like Rooney.

[Osarius]

Or, in Henry's place, not being played in the correct position - IIRC, Henry was a winger until Arsenal brought him. Then Wenger saw that he was being played out of place and turned him into a striker before being turned into a handball player.

There's also the fact that Wenger had coached him before at Monaco, even if only for one season. Similarly, he would perhaps have been more familiar with Vieira -- having managed in the French league when he broke through at Cannes -- than his Italian and English counterparts.

Call me crazy but I don't think its a coincidence that the French coach seemed to have a deeper knowledge of French and French-African players than his largely British rivals in the Premier League for some years... signed more of them than his peers... and some of those players just happened to play important roles in his team's many successes during that period (Henry, Vieira, Pires, Petit...)

I also don't think its a coincidence that now that most big clubs spend heavily on their scouting departments and even the fans seem to know who the best young players in Europe's major leagues are, that said coach no longer seems to make so many "great signings" and "discoveries" at low prices. Since everyone knows who the best players are these days, competition for signatures drives prices up (and arguably out of said coach's financial reach).

[Forsher]

I was also talking about the quality of the transfer. Giroud, Andre Santos, Oxlade-Chamberlain, etc. are mediocre or decent at best.

When Henry was signed he'd been promising but not prolific in the French league, then pretty much flopped when he got his big move to Juve.

When Viera was signed he'd looked very good at Cannes when he was young, then had a season at Milan where he couldn't get out of the reserves.

That's the context in which Arsenal signed those players. In both cases they were promising youngsters who'd moved to big clubs and looked out of their depth. I appreciate that this is easy to forget in light of their later glories, but it does undermine somewhat your claim that the quality of a transfer like Giroud (how much have you seen him play? He scored 21 goals in the team that won the French league last season) or Oxlade-Chamberlain (who is 19, incredibly impressive, and has already played for England in the finals of a major tournament) is a failure.

Personally I admire Arsenal's lack of huge spending. Especially given it does well enough. Should try and win some trophies though.

[Nadkor]

When Henry was signed he'd been promising but not prolific in the French league, then pretty much flopped when he got his big move to Juve.

When Viera was signed he'd looked very good at Cannes when he was young, then had a season at Milan where he couldn't get out of the reserves.

That's the context in which Arsenal signed those players. In both cases they were promising youngsters who'd moved to big clubs and looked out of their depth. I appreciate that this is easy to forget in light of their later glories, but it does undermine somewhat your claim that the quality of a transfer like Giroud (how much have you seen him play? He scored 21 goals in the team that won the French league last season) or Oxlade-Chamberlain (who is 19, incredibly impressive, and has already played for England in the finals of a major tournament) is a failure.

Personally I admire Arsenal's lack of huge spending. Especially given it does well enough. Should try and win some trophies though.

You must have missed the point where I pointed out that he's spent £70m over the last year or so

In the seven full seasons and the few weeks of the eighth since Arsenal last won a trophy (which generously includes this season but does not account for the full spending that might happen this summer), and including transfers so far this season and excluding transfers of less than £1m, Wenger has spent £195.6m. This works out at £24.5m per season, on average. In the same time United have spent, by my count, £249.5m, equating to £31.2m per season, on average.

So, to summarise, in the 7 full seasons since 2004/5 and the few weeks of the eighth since Arsenal last won a season:
Arsenal have spent £24.45m per season, on average
United have spent £31.1m per season, on average

In that time Arsenal have won:

In that time United have won:
Premier League x 4
League Cup x 3
Champions League x 1

It's not so much that he doesn't spend money...

[Forsher]

Personally I admire Arsenal's lack of huge spending. Especially given it does well enough. Should try and win some trophies though.

You must have missed the point where I pointed out that he's spent £70m over the last year or so

In the seven full seasons and the few weeks of the eighth since Arsenal last won a trophy (which generously includes this season but does not account for the full spending that might happen this summer), and including transfers so far this season and excluding transfers of less than £1m, Wenger has spent £195.6m. This works out at £24.5m per season, on average. In the same time United have spent, by my count, £249.5m, equating to £31.2m per season, on average.

So, to summarise, in the 7 full seasons since 2004/5 and the few weeks of the eighth since Arsenal last won a season:
Arsenal have spent £24.45m per season, on average
United have spent £31.1m per season, on average

In that time Arsenal have won:

In that time United have won:
Premier League x 4
League Cup x 3
Champions League x 1

It's not so much that he doesn't spend money...

He doesn't spend it in huge amounts. That's the difference. To be honest Arsenal probably won't bother winning anything until someone else doesn't lose any games. Although without some improvement bother may not be needed.

[Nadkor]

He doesn't spend it in huge amounts. That's the difference.

He doesn't spend it in any significantly smaller amounts than Sir Alex Ferguson, as you would have noticed if you'd read what I'd written.

Does £6.6m per season account for United's four Premier Leagues, one European Cup, and three League Cups compared to Arsenal's nothing? No, no it does not.

£6.6m per year does not account for the disparity in the trophy haul between Arsenal and United over the last 7 seasons.

[Forsher]

He doesn't spend it in huge amounts. That's the difference.

He doesn't spend it in any significantly smaller amounts than Sir Alex Ferguson, as you would have noticed if you'd read what I'd written.

Does £6.6m per season account for United's four Premier Leagues, one European Cup, and three League Cups compared to Arsenal's nothing? No, no it does not.

£6.6m per year does not account for the disparity in the trophy haul between Arsenal and United over the last 7 seasons.

See, I've got you there. I say £30m is huge and less than that is very big. Very trivial I know but this is how I roll.

And you're right. Really, they should have done better.

[Homelands our]

He doesn't spend it in any significantly smaller amounts than Sir Alex Ferguson, as you would have noticed if you'd read what I'd written.

Does £6.6m per season account for United's four Premier Leagues, one European Cup, and three League Cups compared to Arsenal's nothing? No, no it does not.

£6.6m per year does not account for the disparity in the trophy haul between Arsenal and United over the last 7 seasons.

See, I've got you there. I say £30m is huge and less than that is very big. Very trivial I know but this is how I roll.

And you're right. Really, they should have done better.

Just look at season 10-11 (a long time ago) still well in all 4 tournaments in last week of Feb (final of league cup) no excuse for that.

[I V Stalin]

He doesn't spend it in huge amounts. That's the difference.

He doesn't spend it in any significantly smaller amounts than Sir Alex Ferguson, as you would have noticed if you'd read what I'd written.

Does £6.6m per season account for United's four Premier Leagues, one European Cup, and three League Cups compared to Arsenal's nothing? No, no it does not.

£6.6m per year does not account for the disparity in the trophy haul between Arsenal and United over the last 7 seasons.

(Obviously this is going to be a slightly biased opinion...)

I'd say a 30% extra spend per season accounts for a considerable amount of the difference in trophies won over the last seven years (and, incidentally, I'd argue 30% is a significant difference). It's not as if Arsenal haven't been there or thereabouts in that time - a Champions League final and semi-final appearances, two League Cup finals, FA Cup semi-finals, genuine title challenges in three seasons (admittedly not finishing above third, but still). At the same time Wenger has led Arsenal to top four finishes in each season - something only United can otherwise lay claim to - while being massively outspent by Chelsea, City (who have both spent ridiculous sums), Spurs (by approx £10m/year), Liverpool (nearly double) and, yes, United.

[I V Stalin]

New FIFA rankings out today...

...and England are up to fourth!

The FIFA rankings always inspire me to check who is the current Unofficial World Football Champion as well. Currently...North Korea!