Ultimate Football (Soccer) Thread (2012-2013)

[Starblaydia]

The only good thing Nasri has ever done as fluke his way into being a Starblaydi WC15 player. Samir Ben Saïd Nasri, indeed.

[Liventia]

(Image)

I know this may have been brought up before, but the above picture shows Tannadice and Dens Park. Two Dundee clubs, two stadiums a mere 500 meters apart. Why haven't they consolidated into one stadium yet, and alternate matchdays for usage? The closest example I can think of is in the NFL, where the New York Jets and Giants share the same stadium (MetLife Stadium), and alternate their games each week so that one team is at home while the other is away? Why haven't the two teams come to a sort of agreement on this?

[Why] should they?

[DesAnges]

(Image)

I know this may have been brought up before, but the above picture shows Tannadice and Dens Park. Two Dundee clubs, two stadiums a mere 500 meters apart. Why haven't they consolidated into one stadium yet, and alternate matchdays for usage? The closest example I can think of is in the NFL, where the New York Jets and Giants share the same stadium (MetLife Stadium), and alternate their games each week so that one team is at home while the other is away? Why haven't the two teams come to a sort of agreement on this?

Liverpool and Everton have something similar although further apart.

A simple answer would be the fans don't want it. That's certainly the case in Liverpool, probably the same in Dundee. Both teams have long and separate histories at their respective grounds and are distinctly different factions.

[Starblaydia]

Obligatory "But, but, but Inter/AC Milan can do it!" comment.

[Osarius]

I'll play along...

Not really a matter of choice in Italy? I'm sure I read somewhere that only like... two clubs actually own their home ground (Juve and Reggiana, iirc)

[I V Stalin]

Obligatory "But, but, but Inter/AC Milan can do it!" comment.

...though Inter are looking to build their own stadium.

[Serrland]

(Image)

I know this may have been brought up before, but the above picture shows Tannadice and Dens Park. Two Dundee clubs, two stadiums a mere 500 meters apart. Why haven't they consolidated into one stadium yet, and alternate matchdays for usage? The closest example I can think of is in the NFL, where the New York Jets and Giants share the same stadium (MetLife Stadium), and alternate their games each week so that one team is at home while the other is away? Why haven't the two teams come to a sort of agreement on this?

Liverpool and Everton have something similar although further apart.

A simple answer would be the fans don't want it. That's certainly the case in Liverpool, probably the same in Dundee. Both teams have long and separate histories at their respective grounds and are distinctly different factions.

^ Yep.

And in the NFL, there are 16 games over 17 weeks of regular season, plus 4 weeks of preseason and then the playoffs. That's it - one competition. That's a hell of a lot easier to try to schedule than trying to do a league and, hell, what seems like a half dozen cup tournaments with two teams sharing a stadium. For things that are based on draws it'd be pretty unfair to require one team to spend a cup fixture break playing away rather than at home because they've got company in their stadium.

[I V Stalin]

Also, AFAIK, there are some clubs whose stadia are literally next door to each other. There was a running section in the Knowledge column about it in the Guardian a while back. I'll dig it out some time later.

[Serrland]

So if it is confirmed that it's Mancini out for Pellegrini, I reckon Rafa will take over at Malaga. So that would mean:

Moyes -> Man U
Martinez (likely, I think) -> Everton
Mourinho -> Chelsea
Rafa -> Malaga
Pellegrini -> Man City

Sounds like everyone gets a happy ending this time. Except for Mancini, but he'll find somewhere and land on his feet alright.

[DesAnges]

Assuming Mourinho doesn't go back to Chelsea, there will be only 2 managers in the Prem next season that have won a major trophy in the last 9 years - neither of which has been in England.

Have a guess who.

[Osarius]

Assuming Mourinho doesn't go back to Chelsea, there will be only 2 managers in the Prem next season that have won a major trophy in the last 9 years - neither of which has been in England.

unless I'm mistaken, both have managed Tottenham, interestingly enough.

EDIT: wait... I just realised the trick in the question, lol. should have said "coaches", really.

[I V Stalin]

So if it is confirmed that it's Mancini out for Pellegrini, I reckon Rafa will take over at Malaga. So that would mean:

Moyes -> Man U
Martinez (likely, I think) -> Everton
Mourinho -> Chelsea
Rafa -> Malaga
Pellegrini -> Man City

Sounds like everyone gets a happy ending this time. Except for Mancini, but he'll find somewhere and land on his feet alright.

Supposedly Ancelotti, currently at PSG, is in the frame to replace Mourinho. So Mancini can go to Paris.

Assuming Mourinho doesn't go back to Chelsea, there will be only 2 managers in the Prem next season that have won a major trophy in the last 9 years - neither of which has been in England.

unless I'm mistaken, both have managed Tottenham, interestingly enough.

EDIT: wait... I just realised the trick in the question, lol. should have said "coaches", really.

Think I've got the same answer. It assumes that Martinez doesn't go to Everton, though.

I actually think that Wigan coming back up next year hinges on whether Martinez stays or goes. If he stays, I think the respect he clearly has from his players would mean that most (though not all) of their best players would stay as well. However, if he leaves, I think most would try to get a move to a PL team.

EDIT: I just realised I've assumed Wigan are going down...before we play them tomorrow night. Oh, f k

[Osarius]

I actually think that Wigan coming back up next year hinges on whether Martinez stays or goes. If he stays, I think the respect he clearly has from his players would mean that most (though not all) of their best players would stay as well. However, if he leaves, I think most would try to get a move to a PL team.

I said something similar. But I also said that I think if they go down, he'll stay.

[Nadkor]

I do not care for profits.
Still our rivals in my opinion.
Also like United would've have bought him before last year?

Did he not only have a year left on his contract? He wouldn't have been available before last year.

[Nadkor]

236 appearances in 7 seasons? He missed about 1/3 of your league games in that time, which is by no means "most".

Over 40% actually, prior to last season - which was the first time he managed 30 league games in a season for Arsenal - and nearly 45% of our overall games.

"If we ignore seasons that don't fit my narrative it's a number that backs me up"

Nice one.

He had five separate medium- or long-term injuries, four of those involving his left foot/ankle. When he broke his ankle playing for the Netherlands in 2009, and was out for five months, there were several 'pundits' saying that Wenger should ditch him because of his patchy form and injury record. Imagine if Ronaldo had been injured on and off between 2005-2009 and then fucked off to City or Liverpool(!) and started scoring like he is at Real Madrid...

If we'd sold all our other best players, we'd refused to win anything for 7 years, Ronaldo was 29 rather than 24, Liverpool or City had been dominant for the best part of two decades, and he was leaving to actually win something again before his career ended? I'd have been fine with it.

As it was, he'd won three Premier Leagues, a Champions League, the FA Cup, the two League Cups, and the World Club Cup. We kept all our best players. Liverpool and City were nowhere. He was 24. I'd have been rightfully annoyed if he went to Liverpool or City.

The two aren't remotely comparable.

RvP wanted to win a title. He decided that his best chance lay at a club that, as of the end of this season, has only not won the league twice since the end of 2005-06 - and even then those two second places were by an average of 0.5 points - rather than a club that hasn't won anything since 2005.

As I said before - Arsenal fans shouldn't be annoyed with RvP that he left. They should be annoyed with Arsenal.

[I V Stalin]

Over 40% actually, prior to last season - which was the first time he managed 30 league games in a season for Arsenal - and nearly 45% of our overall games.

"If we ignore seasons that don't fit my narrative it's a number that backs me up"

Nice one.

Says the person who conveniently ignored RVP's first season at Arsenal...either way, he only played in about 60% of Arsenal's games while he was at the club.

He had five separate medium- or long-term injuries, four of those involving his left foot/ankle. When he broke his ankle playing for the Netherlands in 2009, and was out for five months, there were several 'pundits' saying that Wenger should ditch him because of his patchy form and injury record. Imagine if Ronaldo had been injured on and off between 2005-2009 and then fucked off to City or Liverpool(!) and started scoring like he is at Real Madrid...

If we'd sold all our other best players, we'd refused to win anything for 7 years, Ronaldo was 29 rather than 24, Liverpool or City had been dominant for the best part of two decades, and he was leaving to actually win something again before his career ended? I'd have been fine with it.

As it was, he'd won three Premier Leagues, a Champions League, the FA Cup, the two League Cups, and the World Club Cup. We kept all our best players. Liverpool and City were nowhere. He was 24. I'd have been rightfully annoyed if he went to Liverpool or City.

The two aren't remotely comparable.

No, not the way you put it. But then, I was quite clearly trying to make a comparison between the faith and resources put into developing a player despite numerous injuries. Hence why I said "Imagine if Ronaldo had been injured on and off". You must have missed that bit behind the blind adherence to your own viewpoint.

RvP wanted to win a title. He decided that his best chance lay at a club that, as of the end of this season, has only not won the league twice since the end of 2005-06 - and even then those two second places were by an average of 0.5 points - rather than a club that hasn't won anything since 2005.

As I said before - Arsenal fans shouldn't be annoyed with RvP that he left. They should be annoyed with Arsenal.

I think you're just backing up what I'd previously said here. In case you missed it first time round:

Good for him. Yeah, I was pretty hacked off when he left, but I'm over that now. He left Arsenal because he didn't think he'd win the league with us. Personally I think he was wrong about that, but that's what he believed. I was disappointed he left, obviously, but that was mainly because of how much the club had invested in him over the years.

[I V Stalin]

I do not care for profits.
Still our rivals in my opinion.
Also like United would've have bought him before last year?

Did he not only have a year left on his contract? He wouldn't have been available before last year.

I must have forgotten all that interest from United back in 2009 when he had a year left...

...then signed a new contract and said (according to Wiki) "My heart is with Arsenal and I just can't picture myself in a different shirt."

Wow. Heartbreaking.

[Nadkor]

"If we ignore seasons that don't fit my narrative it's a number that backs me up"

Nice one.

Says the person who conveniently ignored RVP's first season at Arsenal...either way, he only played in about 60% of Arsenal's games while he was at the club.

Ardboe Eire claimed that RvP had missed "most" of Arsenal's games in the years since you won the FA Cup (well, he said six seasons, but in context I'm assuming he meant seven). Why, when responding to show that this was not the case, would I include the season in which you won the FA Cup?

Are you having difficulty following the conversation?

If we'd sold all our other best players, we'd refused to win anything for 7 years, Ronaldo was 29 rather than 24, Liverpool or City had been dominant for the best part of two decades, and he was leaving to actually win something again before his career ended? I'd have been fine with it.

As it was, he'd won three Premier Leagues, a Champions League, the FA Cup, the two League Cups, and the World Club Cup. We kept all our best players. Liverpool and City were nowhere. He was 24. I'd have been rightfully annoyed if he went to Liverpool or City.

The two aren't remotely comparable.

No, not the way you put it. But then, I was quite clearly trying to make a comparison between the faith and resources put into developing a player despite numerous injuries. Hence why I said "Imagine if Ronaldo had been injured on and off". You must have missed that bit behind the blind adherence to your own viewpoint.

Oh, no, I got that. But, as I'm sure you'll agree, it's only reasonable to make a judgement on something once you've taken all the factors into account - which includes you selling your best players and not winning anything and isn't limited to "oh, but he was injured for ages".

In exactly the same scenario, injuries and all, I wouldn't have begrudged Ronaldo leaving.

Hell, Ronaldo left when, having bought him as a showpony 17 year old we'd turned him into a player who a year earlier had won World Player of the Year, and when he'd just played two CL finals in a row, winning one, had just won three Premier League's in a row, and was at the age where you'd expect a player like him to be about to hit his peak. Which he did, spectacularly, at Real Madrid. Do I begrudge Ronaldo leaving the club that turned him into the best player in the world and with which he'd won pretty much everything going just as he was going to be hitting his peak and despite his repeated claims that he loved the club and would be staying which then turned to saying he was being treated like a slave? No, not at all. And that's significantly more reason to begrudge a player leaving than "yeah, but he was injured for a bit when we didn't win anything".

RvP wanted to win a title. He decided that his best chance lay at a club that, as of the end of this season, has only not won the league twice since the end of 2005-06 - and even then those two second places were by an average of 0.5 points - rather than a club that hasn't won anything since 2005.

As I said before - Arsenal fans shouldn't be annoyed with RvP that he left. They should be annoyed with Arsenal.

I think you're just backing up what I'd previously said here. In case you missed it first time round:

Good for him. Yeah, I was pretty hacked off when he left, but I'm over that now. He left Arsenal because he didn't think he'd win the league with us. Personally I think he was wrong about that, but that's what he believed. I was disappointed he left, obviously, but that was mainly because of how much the club had invested in him over the years.

I was addressing Arsenal fans in general, rather than you (hence writing "Arsenal fans" rather than "you").

[Nadkor]

Did he not only have a year left on his contract? He wouldn't have been available before last year.

I must have forgotten all that interest from United back in 2009 when he had a year left...

...then signed a new contract and said (according to Wiki) "My heart is with Arsenal and I just can't picture myself in a different shirt."

Wow. Heartbreaking.

Yeah...in 2009 we had Berbatov who was settling in for his second season (and therefore we had every reason to think he'd be scoring more), and Rooney moving back up top after Ronaldo left. We didn't need RvP. In 2012 we'd just sold/were Berbatov, and needed a new striker.

That, and we couldn't risk City getting RvP.

[Nadkor]

In other news, 9 United players won their first Premier League title this season.

[Liventia]

(click to enlarge)

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Congrats to James Beattie – newly named manager of Accrington Stanley.

[Slembana]

([url=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKKOn_6CEAIFreb.jpg]Image)[/url] (click to enlarge)

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Congrats to James Beattie – newly named manager of Accrington Stanley.

Rofl.

[Liventia]

Serious question for United fans/people who watch MUTV: does anyone even listen to what Paddy Crerand has to say, or is he generally dismissed as one of those eccentric personalities?

[Nadkor]

Serious question for United fans/people who watch MUTV: does anyone even listen to what Paddy Crerand has to say, or is he generally dismissed as one of those eccentric personalities?

I think he's generally listened to in the sense that he invariably gets completely carried away and ends up being hilarious, not to take much of what he says particularly seriously.

[Polar Islandstates]

My favourite part of United winning the title is the amount of times I've heard RVP say "it's a dream come true".