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Unborn Child to 'Testify' on Ohio Abortion Bill

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Unidox
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Postby Unidox » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:04 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:What, are we now going backwards instead of forward? This is so like the ghost witnesses in the Salem Witch trials.

Welcome to the USA; you got here just in time. Next up we'll have: Unfertilized eggs; God's divine plan or neglect to find a sperm donor.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:05 pm

Norstal wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:Ok, there's a Bill that will make abortions illegal after the heartbeat of the fetus is detected, and anti-abortionist groups are against this?

Ummm....does that make sense to anyone else?

It makes as much sense as a Tauren having the Paladin class.

I think you just surrendered your lunch money.
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Disco Tetris
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Postby Disco Tetris » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:07 pm

I'm pretty sure this already happened, and when the fetus "testified" the heartbeat was so soft that the court found it unconvincing.

EDIT: and link:http://jezebel.com/#!5774543/ohio-fetus-testimony-doesnt-go-so-well

According to news reports, that fetus — brought along by the carrier — was barely detectible, "only faintly audible and far from distinct," according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Luckily, the bill's major advocate, Faith2Action head, columnist, and noted birther Janet Porter, had brought along a fifteen-week-old fetus with its female incubator
Last edited by Disco Tetris on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Call to power
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Postby Call to power » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:08 pm

does this mean my toaster can testify against me in court? I...did some things in the early 80's

Norstal wrote:What if the witnesses says: "kill me now"?


if its starts chanting "Open your mind" will I be able to find a 3 boobed woman?
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Postby Norstal » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:09 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Norstal wrote:It makes as much sense as a Tauren having the Paladin class.

I think you just surrendered your lunch money.

Not if I cast Moonfi...oh wait, this is the real world. :(
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Postby Greed and Death » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:10 pm

It doesn't matter the federal district court than the Circuit court will rule the bill unconstitutional and the supreme court will deny cert.
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Postby Katganistan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:11 pm

Wilgrove wrote:
Norstal wrote:What if the witnesses says: "kill me now"?


What does a heartbeat prove anyways? I mean a person in a Persistent Vegetative State has a heartbeat, but their brain may be long gone. Just because the body has bodily function doesn't mean it's sentient or even sapient.

I even hear that cats and dogs have heartbeats.
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Postby Xenohumanity » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:11 pm

Nulono wrote:Snip

I'm a pro-lifer who runs a nation of dragon-men...
And even I think that's stupid.
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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:11 pm

Call to power wrote:does this mean my toaster can testify against me in court? I...did some things in the early 80's

Only if your toaster is alive. My toaster runs Unix, so he can testify in court.

Norstal wrote:What if the witnesses says: "kill me now"?


if its starts chanting "Open your mind" will I be able to find a 3 boobed woman?

You can do anything.
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Postby Wikkiwallana » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:12 pm

I swear, this is like reading Snopes's Weird News page, I've gotten to the point where I'm going "at least it's not my state." What does a beating heart have to do with anything? Every animal we eat had a heartbeat at some point, it's the mind that matters.
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Nulono wrote:Snip
I'm a pro-lifer who runs a nation of dragon-men...
And even I think that's stupid.
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Postby Nightkill the Emperor » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:12 pm

Norstal wrote:
Call to power wrote:does this mean my toaster can testify against me in court? I...did some things in the early 80's

Only if your toaster is alive. My toaster runs Unix, so he can testify in court.



if its starts chanting "Open your mind" will I be able to find a 3 boobed woman?

You can do anything.

Japanese anime will certainly aid you in finding that.
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:14 pm

Unidox wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:What, are we now going backwards instead of forward? This is so like the ghost witnesses in the Salem Witch trials.

Welcome to the USA; you got here just in time. Next up we'll have: Unfertilized eggs; God's divine plan or neglect to find a sperm donor.


Yup, we're going backwards. *sigh*
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Postby Phalnia » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:14 pm

Call to power wrote:does this mean my toaster can testify against me in court? I...did some things in the early 80's

Norstal wrote:What if the witnesses says: "kill me now"?


if its starts chanting "Open your mind" will I be able to find a 3 boobed woman?


Wait you have a 30 year old toaster?
But, back to the topic this is a stupid ploy and I hope the whoever is judging sees through it.

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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:15 pm

How are they going to administer the oath? How is the featus going to put its hand on the bible?

I do not see a good outcome here.
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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:18 pm

This story's almost 5 days old; apparently, the fetus has already 'testified';

EDIT: Curses, ninja'd!

Dayton Daily News wrote:
COLUMBUS, Ohio — Anti-abortion activists have recently conducted hidden-camera stings at clinics, put up a billboard declaring abortion the No. 1 threat to blacks, and on Wednesday performed ultrasounds on pregnant women in front of Ohio legislators.

Emboldened by new Republican majorities and a political climate they see as sympathetic, abortion foes are mounting a renewed assault on Roe v. Wade — and employing some in-your-face tactics to do it.

"They're trying to find a way to reframe this issue, and using this imagery is the way they're trying to do this," said Thad Hall, a political scientist at the University of Utah and author of a recent book on abortion politics. "It's very rational political behavior. There is survey data to suggest that when people see these images, it does affect how they view the viability of the fetus."

At the Ohio Statehouse, the anti-abortion group Faith2Action unveiled its "heartbeat bill" to outlaw abortions after the first detectable fetal heartbeat. If passed, it would be the most restrictive abortion law in America, affecting pregnancies as little as six weeks along.

Though it is almost certain to be challenged as unconstitutional under Roe v. Wade, which upheld a woman's right to an abortion until the fetus is viable, usually at 22 to 24 weeks, nearly half of the GOP-controlled House has signed on to it. Its prospects are not clear in the Senate, where Republicans also hold a majority.

Faith2Action rounded up two women early in their pregnancies and gave them ultrasounds before a packed House Health Committee hearing so legislators could see and hear the fetal hearts.

At the front of the hearing room, each woman, wearing a concealing gown, had her belly rubbed with a conductive gel, and a nurse then rolled the wand over it to produce the ultrasound image. The grainy, ghostly, black-and-white picture was projected onto a big screen, with the quivering heart highlighted in vivid colors. The gentle lub-dub of the heart could be heard over the room's sound system.

Ducia Hamm, executive director of a pregnancy counseling center in Ashland, Ohio, highlighted the picture with a laser pointer.

At one point, a spectator stood up and flicked the lights off for a better view of the image, now a common sight to most expectant parents.

Rep. Nickie Antonio, a Democrat who opposes the bill, nevertheless thanked Hamm for bringing back memories of her own pregnancy.

Hamm said lawmakers could have simply listened to testimony on the stages of fetal development, "but we all know that words are great, but pictures are worth a thousand words."

Kellie Copeland, executive director of NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio, said the presentation turned the hearing into a "circus."

"I have to hand it to our opponents on this: They're really good at getting attention," she said, "but they're really not good at paying attention to the needs of Ohio women."

The shock-value strategy is by no means new. Imagery designed to tug at heartstrings or disturb viewers is familiar to anyone who has driven along a highway and seen anti-abortion billboards featuring pictures of fetuses or smiling infants. On the other side of the debate, abortion rights activists have handed out coat hangers or used pictures of them to symbolize the dangers of back-alley abortions.

But the anti-abortion movement has recently upped the ante in large cities including New York City and Atlanta, where billboards recently went up saying, "The most dangerous place for an African-American is in the womb."

Many blacks complained that the billboards were offensive and perpetuated stereotypes, and Planned Parenthood called it a "condescending effort to stigmatize and shame African-American women." The advertising company pulled the New York billboard last week.

In recent weeks, the California-based anti-abortion group Live Action released undercover video taken at a half-dozen Planned Parenthood clinics in New Jersey, New York and Virginia to make a case against the organization.

The videos show a man posing as a pimp and a woman posing as a prostitute seeking health services for underage sex workers. Planned Parenthood fired a clinic manager who offered advice to the visitors. Planned Parenthood accused Live Action of "dirty tricks" and complained to the FBI, but the videos contributed to a push in Congress and some states to cut off funding for the women's health organization.

Last fall's elections gave the anti-abortion movement political gains by installing more allies in Congress, legislatures and governor's offices. In many states, legislators are now pushing to do such things as outlaw abortions earlier in a pregnancy, require ultrasounds before a pregnancy is terminated, and prohibit abortion coverage in insurance plans.

"I think the pro-life movement has probably had the upper hand in the last several decades in the production and dissemination of these images. I'm not sure I can say why," said Ziad Munson, associate professor of sociology at Lehigh University and author of "The Making of Pro-Life Activists. "I would assume many in the pro-choice movement would agree with me. They haven't been as successful at marshaling these images to their advantage for whatever reason."

The heartbeat bill's author, Janet Folger Porter, executive director of Faith2Action, defended Wednesday's demonstration against complaints it was a circus.

"What we saw today was the beating hearts of these babies, in hopes that these legislators will allow these babies' hearts to continue to beat," she said. "That's the point. So there were no three rings."

One of the women who took part in the presentation, 25-year-old Erin Glockner, who is nine weeks pregnant, said she wasn't embarrassed or hesitant.

"I just think every child has a right to life whether their parents want to keep them for themselves or give them to a family that wants them," she said. "That's why I think it's important. They can't speak for themselves, so somebody's got to."


In any case, I agree with PZ Myers on this issue;

Pharyngula wrote:
The fetal test has come and gone with a quiet flop. They didn't actually have a 5-week pregnant woman to test, and it failed to work for a 9 week fetus.

Two young mothers were given ultrasounds in a packed room at the Statehouse as part of a House committee meeting Wednesday. The heartbeat of a fetus at 15 weeks gestation was easily detected. The heartbeat in a fetus of nine weeks gestation was difficult to detect.


But have no fear! The technology will inevitably improve, and they'll be able to detect heartbeats earlier and earlier. And then they'll figure out how to test for expression of heart-specific proteins, and we'll be able to recognize its presence before it begins to beat. And then some brilliant ideologue will notice that the genes for heart specification are present at fertilization and before, and we'll be right down to defending every sperm as containing the germ of a beating heart, and deserving of love and protection and reverence, exactly as god intended.

And the heartbeats of women can be ignored again, also as god intended. Shut up, lady! I hear your heart pounding, and the Lord demands your silence!

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Last edited by Avenio on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ZombieRothbard » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:21 pm

Norstal wrote:What if the witnesses says: "kill me now"?



:lol2:
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Postby Wilgrove » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:33 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:
What does a heartbeat prove anyways? I mean a person in a Persistent Vegetative State has a heartbeat, but their brain may be long gone. Just because the body has bodily function doesn't mean it's sentient or even sapient.

I even hear that cats and dogs have heartbeats.


Cats and dogs are also sapient. This is nothing more than an emotional ploy to tug at the heart strings of people, and honestly I don't like it because it just muddies everything up. The simple fact is, that it's the woman body, and her decision to have an abortion should be between her and her doctor, not her, her doctor and the government.

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The Soviet Technocracy
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Postby The Soviet Technocracy » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:44 pm

This is almost as insane as Jerry Falwell.

Almost.

Slightly more insane than James Dobson.
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Postby There is no cow level » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:01 am

Malsitar wrote:My money's on the witness doing a song and dance number. :clap:

That or giving an eloquent pro-abortion speech.

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Postby Wikkiwallana » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:41 am

There is no cow level wrote:
Malsitar wrote:My money's on the witness doing a song and dance number. :clap:

That or giving an eloquent pro-abortion speech.

"Come on my baby, come on my honey, come on my rag-time gal!"

It's been done.
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Nulono wrote:Snip
I'm a pro-lifer who runs a nation of dragon-men...
And even I think that's stupid.
Avenio wrote:Just so you know, the use of the term 'sheep' 'sheeple' or any other herd animal-based terminology in conjunction with an exhortation to 'think outside the box' or stop going along with groupthink generally indicates that the speaker is actually more closed-minded on the subject than the people that he/she is addressing. At least, in my experience at least.

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Postby Gauthier » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:29 am

Wilgrove wrote:Ok, there's a Bill that will make abortions illegal after the heartbeat of the fetus is detected, and anti-abortionist groups are against this?

Ummm....does that make sense to anyone else?


Um no, the report said "Abortion Rights group oppose".
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Postby Gauthier » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:31 am

Why are Republicans so obcessed with protecting unborn life but don't give a shit what happens after they come out?

If this eye-roller passes, next we'll see laws that prohibit abortion if the embryo looks vaguely humanoid.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
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Nuloneto
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Postby Nuloneto » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:31 am

Wikkiwallana wrote:I swear, this is like reading Snopes's Weird News page, I've gotten to the point where I'm going "at least it's not my state." What does a beating heart have to do with anything? Every animal we eat had a heartbeat at some point, it's the mind that matters.

:lol:
Some dogs have more of a "mind" than a human newborn.

Wilgrove wrote:
Katganistan wrote:I even hear that cats and dogs have heartbeats.


Cats and dogs are also sapient. This is nothing more than an emotional ploy to tug at the heart strings of people, and honestly I don't like it because it just muddies everything up. The simple fact is, that it's the woman body, and her decision to have an abortion should be between her and her doctor, not her, her doctor and the government.


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Hasurei wrote:I would like to say that I read the thread title as meaning that most babies are born to only one mother, and I excitedly clicked thinking I was going to read about crazy modern science allowing two women to give birth to the same baby. I feel a little cheated.


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Wamitoria
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Postby Wamitoria » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:34 am

Gauthier wrote:Why are Republicans so obcessed with protecting unborn life but don't give a shit what happens after they come out?

If this eye-roller passes, next we'll see laws that prohibit abortion if the embryo looks vaguely humanoid.

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Nuloneto
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Postby Nuloneto » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:34 am

Gauthier wrote:Why are Republicans so obcessed with protecting unborn life but don't give a shit what happens after they come out?

Now, now, they'll start caring again at the end of their lives.
Acadzia wrote:Vaginas, while awesome, aren't magic, and exiting one does not change the overall make-up of the baby.


The High Lizzleness wrote:If we didn't redo threads, what would we talk about?!


Hasurei wrote:I would like to say that I read the thread title as meaning that most babies are born to only one mother, and I excitedly clicked thinking I was going to read about crazy modern science allowing two women to give birth to the same baby. I feel a little cheated.


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