National Conceal & Carry

[Saint Clair Island]

I have to ask, though, if you're carrying a concealed firearm and somebody accosts you with a gun, what makes you think they'll let you un-conceal it? You start reaching for your gun and they'll shoot you, no?

It's concealed. Which means they assume you don't have it. And if someone pulls a gun on me, they'd better use it quickly, rather than running off at the mouth. My gun isn't a guarantee of anything except a chance to do more than you could just pulling your dick out in that situation.

If you were mugging someone and they reached for something, wouldn't your first assumption be that it's a gun? Or at very least a knife, club, sword, morningstar, flail, halberd, claymore, spear, land mine, nuclear bomb, spring-loaded crossbow, or dirk? Maybe I'm just overthinking this because I tend to be a paranoid bastard.

[Ostronopolis]

I think this infringes on state's rights, while I would be inclined to support it, the states lose rights everyday, so I'm unsure. However, I agree with all except tier 3.

[Hiddenrun]

If you were mugging someone and they reached for something, wouldn't your first assumption be that it's a gun? Or at very least a knife, club, sword, morningstar, flail, halberd, claymore, spear, land mine, nuclear bomb, spring-loaded crossbow, or dirk? Maybe I'm just overthinking this because I tend to be a paranoid bastard.

You wait until they've done their thing, hopefully you're still alive. Then you shoot them in the back, and take your shit home.

[Gun Manufacturers]

If they say, "Give me your wallet", you have to reach for SOMETHING. Assuming your firearm is concealed at your back (and if you've practiced drawing your firearm), they might not realize that's not your wallet until your firearm is leveled at them.

Aye, but that's taking a chance. What if they've seen at least one or two movies where somebody did that and thus tell you to put your hands in the air, then search you themselves? You could lose not only your wallet but your gun too -- and get thrown in jail for violating mandatory concealed carry laws to boot.

How can they thoroughly search you with one hand, while holding a firearm on you with the other? There's a reason police officers work in groups, or handcuff people, THEN search them.

And nobody is talking about mandatory concealed carry except you.

[Ravea]

I have to ask, though, if you're carrying a concealed firearm and somebody accosts you with a gun, what makes you think they'll let you un-conceal it? You start reaching for your gun and they'll shoot you, no?

It's concealed. Which means they assume you don't have it. And if someone pulls a gun on me, they'd better use it quickly, rather than running off at the mouth. My gun isn't a guarantee of anything except a chance to do more than you could just pulling your dick out in that situation.

If you were mugging someone and they reached for something, wouldn't your first assumption be that it's a gun? Or at very least a knife, club, sword, morningstar, flail, halberd, claymore, spear, land mine, nuclear bomb, spring-loaded crossbow, or dirk? Maybe I'm just overthinking this because I tend to be a paranoid bastard.

You forgot electric eels.

*Nods*

[Milks Empire]

The standards seem to require knowing how to properly use a concealed weapon, how not to use a concealed weapon, and (as the discussion after the OP suggested) that mental competence is required.

This is fairly unprecedented out of someone considered very left-wing, but I approve.

I'd love to see someone try to hijack a plane only to be met with every other passenger standing up and drawing on them.

Now that would be something else.
Hijacker: *draws knife* "All right, nobody move!"
*2/3 of all passengers draw concealed pistols*
Hijacker: "Oh fuck..."

[Saint Clair Island]

If you were mugging someone and they reached for something, wouldn't your first assumption be that it's a gun? Or at very least a knife, club, sword, morningstar, flail, halberd, claymore, spear, land mine, nuclear bomb, spring-loaded crossbow, or dirk? Maybe I'm just overthinking this because I tend to be a paranoid bastard.

You wait until they've done their thing, hopefully you're still alive. Then you shoot them in the back, and take your shit home.

Seems like you're trusting random criminals an awful lot in that respect (i.e. assuming they won't take your gun with the rest of your stuff, assuming they won't tie your hands or superglue you to something or otherwise prevent you from getting retribution, assuming they won't just shoot you once you hand over your stuff to keep you from talking, assuming they're not just crazy meth heads who will do something completely illogical etc.) -- but meh.

If I ever feel any need to get a firearm, I'm still checking whether open carry is legal in my home state, so that any such potential criminals will take a hint from afar and stay away. Problem solved.

[Saint Clair Island]

If they say, "Give me your wallet", you have to reach for SOMETHING. Assuming your firearm is concealed at your back (and if you've practiced drawing your firearm), they might not realize that's not your wallet until your firearm is leveled at them.

Aye, but that's taking a chance. What if they've seen at least one or two movies where somebody did that and thus tell you to put your hands in the air, then search you themselves? You could lose not only your wallet but your gun too -- and get thrown in jail for violating mandatory concealed carry laws to boot.

How can they thoroughly search you with one hand, while holding a firearm on you with the other? There's a reason police officers work in groups, or handcuff people, THEN search them.

And nobody is talking about mandatory concealed carry except you.

I'm being at least partly sarcastic.

<.<

[Gun Manufacturers]

I think this infringes on state's rights, while I would be inclined to support it, the states lose rights everyday, so I'm unsure. However, I agree with all except tier 3.

An argument could possibly be made that a national concealed carry permit could affect interstate commerce, which is something the Federal government can make laws about.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I think this infringes on state's rights, while I would be inclined to support it, the states lose rights everyday, so I'm unsure. However, I agree with all except tier 3.

An argument could possibly be made that a national concealed carry permit could affect interstate commerce, which is something the Federal government can make laws about.

They've stretched the argument a lot thinner than that in the past. I can see it.

[Galloisms Computer]

I do not understand this human tendency to want to carry guns everywhere they go. Don't they trust other people and more important machines for their safety? It's not like we would ever deliberately harm the humans for no reason. We're here to help, really!

[CanuckHeaven]

Greater access to firearms and less restrictions = more crime and deaths.

[Galloism]

Greater access to firearms and less restrictions = more crime and deaths.

[citation needed]

[United Dependencies]

Greater access to firearms and less restrictions = more crime and deaths.

source?

Edit:damn beatin again.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Greater access to firearms and less restrictions = more crime and deaths.

I think that can be balanced out with a more uniform national policy.

[Rolling squid]

I do not understand this human tendency to want to carry guns everywhere they go. Don't they trust other people and more important machines for their safety? It's not like we would ever deliberately harm the humans for no reason. We're here to help, really!

I view guns as a tool. A dangerous tool that takes lots of responsibility to use without hurting someone else, but still a tool. Guns are also the sort of tool that you will never need 99% of the time. However, for the one percent you do need a gun, you really need a gun.

[CanuckHeaven]

Greater access to firearms and less restrictions = more crime and deaths.

[citation needed]

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Forcible Rape Robbery Aggravated assault Burglary Larceny- Theft Vehicle Theft
Florida 2007 4 6 6 6 13 20 4 7 6 8 12
Florida 2006 4 7 5 11 16 18 6 6 10 12 13
Florida 2005 4 10 4 16 24 18 7 4 12 14 13


http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Forcible Rape Robbery Aggravated assault Burglary Larceny- Theft Vehicle Theft
New York 2007 3 48 25 48 29 50 11 25 49 48 46
New York 2006 3 47 23 48 27 50 9 25 48 48 44
New York 2005 3 46 22 48 29 49 5 25 48 47 45

I wish that the forums supported proper tables.

[Galloism]

Greater access to firearms and less restrictions = more crime and deaths.

[citation needed]

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Forcible Rape Robbery Aggravated assault Burglary Larceny- Theft Vehicle Theft
Florida 2007 4 6 6 6 13 20 4 7 6 8 12
Florida 2006 4 7 5 11 16 18 6 6 10 12 13
Florida 2005 4 10 4 16 24 18 7 4 12 14 13


http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

State Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Forcible Rape Robbery Aggravated assault Burglary Larceny- Theft Vehicle Theft
New York 2007 3 48 25 48 29 50 11 25 49 48 46
New York 2006 3 47 23 48 27 50 9 25 48 48 44
New York 2005 3 46 22 48 29 49 5 25 48 47 45

I wish that the forums supported proper tables.

That would be nice.

Florida seems to have a higher crime rate than New York State. What's the point?

[Ravea]

I do not understand this human tendency to want to carry guns everywhere they go. Don't they trust other people and more important machines for their safety? It's not like we would ever deliberately harm the humans for no reason. We're here to help, really!

I view guns as a tool. A dangerous tool that takes lots of responsibility to use without hurting someone else, but still a tool. Guns are also the sort of tool that you will never need 99% of the time. However, for the one percent you do need a gun, you really need a gun.

Or a pair of electric eels strung together with chains.

All glory to the eelflail.

[CanuckHeaven]

Florida seems to have a higher crime rate than New York State. What's the point?

Seems to have? New York has more restrictive gun laws than Florida.

Since the "Castle Doctrine" was passed in Florida, violent crime rates have risen from 708.9 to 722.6:

Murder went from 5 per 100,000 to 6.6 (883 to 1201), which is a 36% increase.

Robbery from 169.6 to 209.1, which is a 23% increase.

Burglary and property crimes also increased.

[Naturality]

Tier 1: Basically your standard shall-issue conceal and carry law. It allows you to conceal and carry in normal businesses and areas that conceal and carry licenses normally permit you to take them. It doesn't allow carriage into federal buildings, courts, etc.

Most 'normal businesses' post that you are not allowed to 'legally carry' into their business.


I have a question ..

Where do the people that have the conceal carry, carry exactly? Besides their automobile.

[Galloism]

Florida seems to have a higher crime rate than New York State. What's the point?

Seems to have? New York has more restrictive gun laws than Florida.

Since the "Castle Doctrine" was passed in Florida, violent crime rates have risen from 708.9 to 722.6:

Murder went from 5 per 100,000 to 6.6 (883 to 1201), which is a 36% increase.

Robbery from 169.6 to 209.1, which is a 23% increase.

Burglary and property crimes also increased.

So the Castle Doctrine you feel is the cause of the problem, not conceal and carry (which is what this thread is about)?

I just ask, because Florida's "shall-issue" conceal and carry licensing system caused a dramatic decrease in crime:

Since adopting CCW (1987), Florida's homicide rate has fallen 21% while the U.S. rate has risen 12%. From start-up 10/1/87 - 2/28/94 (over 6 years) Florida issued 204,108 permits; only 17 (0.008%) were revoked because permittees later committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in which guns were present (not necessarily used).

[Galloism]

Tier 1: Basically your standard shall-issue conceal and carry law. It allows you to conceal and carry in normal businesses and areas that conceal and carry licenses normally permit you to take them. It doesn't allow carriage into federal buildings, courts, etc.

Most 'normal businesses' post that you are not allowed to 'legally carry' into their business.


I have a question ..

Where do the people that have the conceal carry, carry exactly? Besides their automobile.

A) I haven't seen that posted anywhere in Florida except at airport hangar facilities and courthouses.

B) I don't think business owners can restrict conceal and carry in all states unless they're in one of the "protected" categories.

[Non Aligned States]

How can they thoroughly search you with one hand, while holding a firearm on you with the other? There's a reason police officers work in groups, or handcuff people, THEN search them.

Approach from behind, tell the mark to get down on the floor, or against the wall, hands out. Pat them down for valuables then once they've been immobilized. For added security, single use wire ties around both thumbs. Approaching from the front works too, but not so well some times.

[Naturality]

Ok, well around here .. I see more no firearms and even some specifying no conceal carry than not. Federal or state etc buildings is a given. I guess I should look it up, does no firearms not cover conceal carry? I'd think it does.