School lobbied to stop electric shock ban

[Rolamec]

Schocking!

Ohm my god, lets not start anymore electrical puns on this thread.

I must confess that your current attitude is...electrifying.

[Mosasauria]

Basically, their argument is:
"We are too lazy and incompetent to take the time and money to properly educate those who are mentally ailed, so we want them to associate thinking irregularly with pain through electric shock therapy."


Need I say more? Or did I just sum it up?

[Geniasis]

Great, now we're just starting to repeater old jokes. Guys, I think we've lost the spark.

[Rolamec]

Great, now we're just starting to repeater old jokes. Guys, I think we've lost the spark.

[Mosasauria]

Great, now we're just starting to repeater old jokes. Guys, I think we've lost the spark.

We just don't have the energy to make such jolting jokes.

[The Bleeding Roses]

Malnourishment is a result of poor diet, not taking a fucking zap to the leg.
PTSD is a poorly understood creation of the 21st century, there is no definitive research linking the two. Furthermore, I would argue that keeping a child from physically harming themselves and others is of primary importance.

I was unaware the Vietnam War happened in the last decade.

Seeing as PTSD didn't make it into the DSM till 1980 and the present definition wasn't in there till 1994...

[L3 Communications]

I was unaware the Vietnam War happened in the last decade.

Seeing as PTSD didn't make it into the DSM till 1980 and the present definition wasn't in there till 1994...

ikr

seeing as 1994 is 7 years off from the 21st century

[The Bleeding Roses]

Seeing as PTSD didn't make it into the DSM till 1980 and the present definition wasn't in there till 1994...

ikr

seeing as 1994 is 7 years off from the 21st century

It rounds up.

[The Corparation]

ikr

seeing as 1994 is 7 years off from the 21st century

It rounds up.

No, if its before '95 it rounds down to 1990. So 20th century. And just because we didn't have a name for it didn't mean it didn't already occur.

[Nobel Hobos]

You people don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
Hell, I doubt there is one of you in the lot that has worked with severely handicapped students...

Were you never given the train metaphor for amps versus volts during high school physics?

No, I was given a physics class in a university.

That shock is nothing compared to the tazer.

In your medical opinion, which is based on ... physics classes at university.

There are three different things here: ECT (which is an effective therapy but no-one knows why), Tazers (which cause loss of muscle control and are used to physically restrain) and Aversive Shocks (which are are explicitly used to cause pain as punishment). Saying "it's not as bad as a tazer" really misses the point: it's not meant to do the same thing as a tazer, nor is it meant to be ECT. It's corporal punishment.

Since in your first post, you attack everyone else in the thread for lacking personal experience ... how much time have YOU spent working with severely disabled children?

[New Korongo]

I remember a documentary about Canadian soldiers in WW1 were getting PTSD and CSR and the US soldiers that had just arrived considered it cowardice

[The Corparation]

I remember a documentary about Canadian soldiers in WW1 were getting PTSD and CSR and the US soldiers that had just arrived considered it cowardice

Yeah but then you have to remeber that everyone but the US troops in WWI were pussies. Show me one nonamerican from that conflict who took a hundred prisoners on his own in one night.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

I remember a documentary about Canadian soldiers in WW1 were getting PTSD and CSR and the US soldiers that had just arrived considered it cowardice

WW1 sparked one of the biggest revolutions in psychiatric and medical thought through experiences with battlefield surgery and treating soldiers for a return to civilian life. Before WW1 serious effort had yet to be made to improve psychology with regards to the treatment of psychologically damaged veterans.

[The Bleeding Roses]

It rounds up.

No, if its before '95 it rounds down to 1990. So 20th century. And just because we didn't have a name for it didn't mean it didn't already occur.

1994 is closer to 2000 than it is to 1900.

[Nobel Hobos]

Malnourishment comes form the fact that they often only give them 1/4 of the food they need as a punishment, in addition to the constant shocks. PTSD is not due to the malnourishment, its due to the fact they are being brutally shocked against their will. And giving a kid one poorly understood mental illness to try and cure a different poorly understood mental illness does no seem the smartest thing to do. There are ways to prevent a child from harming themselves then using electric shocks. Like Straitjackets.

This is a school, not a 20s mental hospital. A straitjacket is far more barbarous than a small shock...

The JREC uses a 4-point restraint board on students to prevent them self-harming or harming others. They leave kids in this form of restraint for up to six hours ... whether that is more or less "barbarous" than a straight jacket certainly isn't clear to me.

You said in another post that you support a doctor's right to do whatever they think is good for a patient. Make up your mind: is the JREC a school or a hospital?

[The Bleeding Roses]

Since in your first post, you attack everyone else in the thread for lacking personal experience ... how much time have YOU spent working with severely disabled children?

Fraternity Philanthropy Hours.

[The Bleeding Roses]

This is a school, not a 20s mental hospital. A straitjacket is far more barbarous than a small shock...

The JREC uses a 4-point restraint board on students to prevent them self-harming or harming others. They leave kids in this form of restraint for up to six hours ... whether that is more or less "barbarous" than a straight jacket certainly isn't clear to me.

You said in another post that you support a doctor's right to do whatever they think is good for a patient. Make up your mind: is the JREC a school or a hospital?

Schools educate.
Hospitals treat.

This is first and foremost a school.

[The Corparation]

No, if its before '95 it rounds down to 1990. So 20th century. And just because we didn't have a name for it didn't mean it didn't already occur.

1994 is closer to 2000 than it is to 1900.

But its closer to 1990. Which puts it into the 1900s. By your logic Vietnam happened in the 21st century. As did Korea.

[Nobel Hobos]

No, if its before '95 it rounds down to 1990. So 20th century. And just because we didn't have a name for it didn't mean it didn't already occur.

1994 is closer to 2000 than it is to 1900.

Oh give it up. It was a small slip, a matter of a few years. Trying to prove that 1994 is in the 21st century just isn't going to work.

[The Corparation]

The JREC uses a 4-point restraint board on students to prevent them self-harming or harming others. They leave kids in this form of restraint for up to six hours ... whether that is more or less "barbarous" than a straight jacket certainly isn't clear to me.

You said in another post that you support a doctor's right to do whatever they think is good for a patient. Make up your mind: is the JREC a school or a hospital?

Schools educate.
Hospitals treat.

This is first and foremost a school.

Then why is there so much more emphasis on curing them through these "Treatments" then teaching them?

[The Bleeding Roses]

Schools educate.
Hospitals treat.

This is first and foremost a school.

Then why is there so much more emphasis on curing them through these "Treatments" then teaching them?

At least read their literature and view their video before you spout nonsense. Aversives aren't used on every patient.

http://www.judgerc.org/ProgramforHigh.wmv

Additionally, the school's founder trained under the famed BF Skinner. He certainly isn't a quack.

[Nobel Hobos]

Since in your first post, you attack everyone else in the thread for lacking personal experience ... how much time have YOU spent working with severely disabled children?

Fraternity Philanthropy Hours.

I see. Well, I spent a year as a teacher's assistant in a public school. My role was supporting children with moderate disabilities: being in a general school population they mostly weren't severely retarded, though one was. I did however, in my training and also while visiting special schools in the process of transferring students, see the methods necessary to deal with emotionally disturbed kids who pose a threat to themselves and others.

The JREC uses a 4-point restraint board on students to prevent them self-harming or harming others. They leave kids in this form of restraint for up to six hours ... whether that is more or less "barbarous" than a straight jacket certainly isn't clear to me.

You said in another post that you support a doctor's right to do whatever they think is good for a patient. Make up your mind: is the JREC a school or a hospital?

Schools educate.
Hospitals treat.

This is first and foremost a school.

You must admit there isn't a clear distinction between "teaching behaviour" and "treating behaviour".

In 2006, the NY education enquiry said this: "JRC employs a total of 386 MHAs and 254 Mental Health Relief Aides in the school and residences. Most of these individuals, 468 of the total 640 MHAs and Mental Health Relief Aides, have completed only a high school education".

The JREC employs about 900 staff. Thus, two thirds of the staff are MHA's or MHRA's. In any kind of hospital, these underqualified staff would only work under the direct supervision of a doctor.

In no kind of school would they be qualified to fill the role of a teacher. 468 of about 900, HALF, of the staff have only a high school education. Those aren't teachers, they're more like ward staff in a mental hospital.

EDIT: Also bear in mind that this is a residential "school" and the behaviour modification program runs 24/7 not just in class. Behaviour is the primary focus, not curriculum learning.

[Seperate Vermont]

When will our understanding of psychology modernize? Ever?

[The Bleeding Roses]

When will our understanding of psychology modernize? Ever?

When extreme experimentation is conducted again.

Say what you will about the Nazis morally... their experiments advanced the field tenfold.

[Seperate Vermont]

When will our understanding of psychology modernize? Ever?

When extreme experimentation is conducted again.

Say what you will about the Nazis morally... their experiments advanced the field tenfold.

Hardly is this a case of sensible, scientific application of treatment. It's misplaced quacks disguising themselves as a possible solution to a problem, and a wrong solution at that.