Are Wisconsin Democrats doing the right thing?

[Gauthier]

The sheer amount of people in this forum who pretty much say "Yes, I want the Senators to go back so we can consecrate the right of corporations to engineer the government to line their own pockets at the expense of the common working people" is just incredible.

[SaintB]

Whats immature about standing up for the rights of union workers that they fought so hard to receive? Aside from that this is the same things the Republicans around the nation have been doing especially on the federal level.

Oh there isn't anything wrong with standing up for the 'rights' of the union workers. The Democrats aren't standing up for anything, tho. They're literally running away to other states to avoid their elected responsibility.

Their elected responsibilities include ensuring the Unions exists. They are doing so by refusing to allow the vote to happen because all 17 GOP Senators in the state AND the Governor are bought and payed for by the Koch brothers. They can't keep the bill from passing in any other way because they only hold 14 seats.

[SaintB]

WTF are the Dems in Wisconsin and Indiana thinking?!!

They got elected to try their best to represent the people not themselves, not Big Government Labor.
Being a bunch of wusses like the French post-WW1 ain't going to accomplish anything. They're a disgrace to themselves, their party, their voters, their districts, their states, and America.

And for that they deserve a giant b!tc#slap. But since it's hard to visualise that, they get this from me instead:



Bunch of idiots, those politicians are. It absolutely sickens me to know that they're in my country.

Better than a bunch of corporate cronies who would be happy to let private industries decide the fate of the whole nation.

[Rolamec]

I think the criticism is that senators are paid to legislate, not flee when bad bills get pushed through. Furthermore there was a certain amount of shit towards the GOP when they were a minority in the US congress and were holding up legislation; now the exact same thing is happening.

[Lacadaemon]

The sheer amount of people in this forum who pretty much say "Yes, I want the Senators to go back so we can consecrate the right of corporations to engineer the government to line their own pockets at the expense of the common working people" is just incredible.

Just knock it off. These are public sector unions. The public sector was quite happy to fuck the ordinary working person so long as they got their fucking cut. Cries of 'we were fucked' ring hollow.

[Coffee Cakes]

Government workers get a f---ing golden parachute that everybody else except for CEO's envy, not to mention that EVERY government worker is mandated to join a union. It's a disgrace. The only thing that the GOP wants to do is give workers the option of opting out of being in these unions, which in principle isn't a detestable thing at all. What's detestable is the politicians not showing up to work.

[Daistallia 2104]

I think the criticism is that senators are paid to legislate, not flee when bad bills get pushed through. Furthermore there was a certain amount of shit towards the GOP when they were a minority in the US congress and were holding up legislation; now the exact same thing is happening.

They aren't fleeing when bad bills get pushed through. They're using the tools they have to prevent bad bills from being pushed through by corrupt politicians, tools that the GOP has been happy to use for their own ends in the past.

[Gauthier]

I think the criticism is that senators are paid to legislate, not flee when bad bills get pushed through. Furthermore there was a certain amount of shit towards the GOP when they were a minority in the US congress and were holding up legislation; now the exact same thing is happening.

What right wing tools love to omit is that the Kochsuckers refused to deliberate and negotiate on the bill, even though the unions agreed to increased health care costs in order to keep collective bargaining. This is entirely about destroying the only real competetion to corporate political lobbying and anyone who insists otherwise has dreams of being part of the ruling class.

[Coffee Cakes]

The sheer amount of people in this forum who pretty much say "Yes, I want the Senators to go back so we can consecrate the right of corporations to engineer the government to line their own pockets at the expense of the common working people" is just incredible.

Just knock it off. These are public sector unions. The public sector was quite happy to fuck the ordinary working person so long as they got their fucking cut. Cries of 'we were fucked' ring hollow.

Somebody gets the issue... and the Smartest Person of the day Award.

Thank you.

And while I'm at it, I'd like to say something to the public sector unions in my state, MA, as well:
F--- off!

[Serrland]

I think the criticism is that senators are paid to legislate, not flee when bad bills get pushed through. Furthermore there was a certain amount of shit towards the GOP when they were a minority in the US congress and were holding up legislation; now the exact same thing is happening.

Which is why it's fair to criticize the Dems for jumping ship. But there's a difference between criticizing them and saying they're not living up to their responsibilities - the same way the Republicans were living up to their duties to their constituents when they held up legislation in the House. Attack the tactics, fine, just like the House GOP was attacked on tactical grounds, but don't go levying about charges of not doing your job.

[Gauthier]

The sheer amount of people in this forum who pretty much say "Yes, I want the Senators to go back so we can consecrate the right of corporations to engineer the government to line their own pockets at the expense of the common working people" is just incredible.

Just knock it off. These are public sector unions. The public sector was quite happy to fuck the ordinary working person so long as they got their fucking cut. Cries of 'we were fucked' ring hollow.

As has been pointed out, PSUs are the only real competetion to the corporations in terms of political contributions. Nice to see you're doing the Vichy France Salute for a right-wing oligarchy.

[Coffee Cakes]

I think the criticism is that senators are paid to legislate, not flee when bad bills get pushed through. Furthermore there was a certain amount of shit towards the GOP when they were a minority in the US congress and were holding up legislation; now the exact same thing is happening.

Which is why it's fair to criticize the Dems for jumping ship. But there's a difference between criticizing them and saying they're not living up to their responsibilities - the same way the Republicans were living up to their duties to their constituents when they held up legislation in the House. Attack the tactics, fine, just like the House GOP was attacked on tactical grounds, but don't go levying about charges of not doing your job.

Well, fleeing your job is not doing your job... and as such, it deserves all the criticism in the world.

[Serrland]

Which is why it's fair to criticize the Dems for jumping ship. But there's a difference between criticizing them and saying they're not living up to their responsibilities - the same way the Republicans were living up to their duties to their constituents when they held up legislation in the House. Attack the tactics, fine, just like the House GOP was attacked on tactical grounds, but don't go levying about charges of not doing your job.

Well, fleeing your job is not doing your job... and as such, it deserves all the criticism in the world.

Blocking legislation your constituents oppose isn't doing your job as an opposition senator?

[Rolamec]

I think the criticism is that senators are paid to legislate, not flee when bad bills get pushed through. Furthermore there was a certain amount of shit towards the GOP when they were a minority in the US congress and were holding up legislation; now the exact same thing is happening.

They aren't fleeing when bad bills get pushed through. They're using the tools they have to prevent bad bills from being pushed through by corrupt politicians, tools that the GOP has been happy to use for their own ends in the past.

"Corrupt" is a very relative term, your opinion of this bill (and mine) is that it is horrible. Nevertheless that happens, simply walking out isn't a parliamentary procedure (otherwise the GOP would have been justified in doing it with the health care bill, not merely filibustering it), and it isn't something they campaigned for...What do you expect is going to happen when you are liberal and conservatives take over? Everything they do is going to be defined as "corrupt," nevertheless, they were elected to the position. Democrats should vote against rather than just leave. And work to repeal it.

[SaintB]

Government workers get a f---ing golden parachute that everybody else except for CEO's envy, not to mention that EVERY government worker is mandated to join a union. It's a disgrace. The only thing that the GOP wants to do is give workers the option of opting out of being in these unions, which in principle isn't a detestable thing at all. What's detestable is the politicians not showing up to work.

The bill in question destroys collective bargaining, guts the pay and the benefits of public sector workers, gives the government the ability to essentially fire any employee at will and forces the members of the union to make an annual vote to keep their union alive; the entire purpose is to destroy the Unions altogether without actually saying it. It also has provisions to sell pieces of the public infrastructure (gas and power lines mostly) to private companies on a first come first serve basis.

There is a lot more then public sector collective bargaining at stake.

By not showing up to work, the Democratic Senators in Wisconsin are showing up to work.

[Sierra Lobo]

Denying quorum by fleeing is a legitimate parliamentary procedure in Wisconsin.

Anyway, I just hope the dems wont cry foul when the repubs uses this tactics when Wisconsin swings back into a Dems majority again! Precedents is/are a biatch.

Just like how wingnuts these protesters are behaving, considering how dems like to espouse 'CIVILITY' a month ago. Shame, these people like to preach on the Tea party on how uncivil, how bigoted but seems like Dems likes to employ 'Do what I say, Dont follow what I do.'

[New Colombialand]

I'm all for them - God knows the Repubs did this on capitol hill for the last two years. Only difference was they just kept talking and talking and talking.

The Democrats were exercising their rights to protest (not sure on that). I'm in full support of them.

By the way, I live in Illinois, and we've given them quite a warm welcome

This is a biased answer. The democrats are jumping at the idea of getting paid to not work. It's a dream come true for all democrats, while were at it lets go ahead and raise taxes, and increase the national debt. Standby for the response that the Republicans were the ones who caused the debt.

[Neo Arcad]

I think the criticism is that senators are paid to legislate, not flee when bad bills get pushed through. Furthermore there was a certain amount of shit towards the GOP when they were a minority in the US congress and were holding up legislation; now the exact same thing is happening.

What right wing tools love to omit is that the Kochsuckers refused to deliberate and negotiate on the bill, even though the unions agreed to increased health care costs in order to keep collective bargaining. This is entirely about destroying the only real competetion to corporate political lobbying and anyone who insists otherwise has dreams of being part of the ruling class.

Ah, yes, the age old "PROLETARIATZ BEIN OPRESSED OLOLOL DA KORPORATIONS ARE EBIL" stance. It's been done before; you're not original and freethinking, you've just been watching too much MSNBC. The fact of the matter is that these unions want you to think that. They control everything, and anyone who opposes them is "DA EBIL KORPORATE PAWN ZOMGLOL". I'm no corporate CEO, I'm an average, everyday American. And I believe the unions have too much power. THEY're the ones bribing politicians and organizing fake rallies.

[Coffee Cakes]

Just knock it off. These are public sector unions. The public sector was quite happy to fuck the ordinary working person so long as they got their fucking cut. Cries of 'we were fucked' ring hollow.

As has been pointed out, PSUs are the only real competetion to the corporations in terms of political contributions. Nice to see you're doing the Vichy France Salute for a right-wing oligarchy.

Quite honestly, there IS a difference. These unions rob the people, er, Work for the government! And as such they should have no right to use the public's money to get a person elected.
Also corporations, businesses, and idiot rich folk, like it or not, have the right to be represented, too, and the way they do that is by donating to campaigns.

[Hebalobia]

I believe they're doing wrong because they are still getting paid for technicaly not working and they are also working in Illinois and not paying taxes.

Oh cut it out. Do you think you could have come up with a more irrelevant observation?

The issue in Wisconsin is whether state employees can have unions and collectively bargain like the private sector. The gap in income and wealth between the richest 5% of the U.S. population and everyone else has grown dangerously wide in the last 30 years thanks to favorable tax structures and the ability of big business to weaken the unions by sending jobs overseas. Now the Republicans are trying to weaken the unions in the public sector as well.

That can only make a bad situation worse. The unions are willing to make concessions to help with the budget problems. That should be enough.

[Coffee Cakes]

Well, fleeing your job is not doing your job... and as such, it deserves all the criticism in the world.

Blocking legislation your constituents oppose isn't doing your job as an opposition senator?

Blocking legislation with filibusters and chamber rules and whatnot IS doing your job. Fleeing your elected duties is not part of the job... nor is it in the rules, especially when they run outside their state.

[Osthia]

The Democrats are doing the right thing. The Republicans actually did some dirty work. The Governor, while thinking he was talking to one of his benefactors, told this prank caller that he was gonna try to lure the Dems back to Wisconsin for the passing of the legislation. They don;t even have to be in Madison, he said. They just have to be in Wisconsin for the law to be passed.

[SaintB]

Blocking legislation your constituents oppose isn't doing your job as an opposition senator?

Blocking legislation with filibusters and chamber rules and whatnot IS doing your job. Fleeing your elected duties is not part of the job... nor is it in the rules, especially when they run outside their state.

FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME: THERE IS NOT FILIBUSTER PROCEDURE IN WISCONSIN, LEAVING THE STATE TO PREVENT A QUORUM IS THE PROCEDURE THAT HAS BEEN USED IN THAT STATE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

[Revolutopia]

Anyway, I just hope the dems wont cry foul when the repubs uses this tactics when Wisconsin swings back into a Dems majority again! Precedents is/are a biatch.

Just like how wingnuts these protesters are behaving, considering how dems like to espouse 'CIVILITY' a month ago. Shame, these people like to preach on the Tea party on how uncivil, how bigoted but seems like Dems likes to employ 'Do what I say, Dont follow what I do.'

Didn't Republicans get their panties all in a twist when Democrats called for civility, suggesting that it was no more then basic demonization of the poor tea party and their leaders. Therefore, like you said "Precedents is/are a biatch" thus republicans have no right to complain about how the unions are protesting. Additionally, at least none of them have brought guns to their rallies.

Quite honestly, there IS a difference. These unions rob the people, er, Work for the government! And as such they should have no right to use the public's money to get a person elected.
Also corporations, businesses, and idiot rich folk, like it or not, have the right to be represented, too, and the way they do that is by donating to campaigns.

Do you believe that there should be laws denying any corporations, businesses, and the rich holding government contracts from donating to political causes In that, they to are receiving public money?

[Gauthier]

The Democrats are doing the right thing. The Republicans actually did some dirty work. The Governor, while thinking he was talking to one of his benefactors, told this prank caller that he was gonna try to lure the Dems back to Wisconsin for the passing of the legislation. They don;t even have to be in Madison, he said. They just have to be in Wisconsin for the law to be passed.

Don't forget the part where Governor Scott Mubarak considered sending thugs to infiltrate and disrupt the protests.