Are Wisconsin Democrats doing the right thing?

[Wilgrove]

Once the money reaches the individual, they stop being "taxes" and become "income" for that person.

yep income and benefits bloated up with there political backers..... nice way of legal laundering. Just like elect me and I make sure I will boost all your pensions campaign.

Yes, because Democrats are the only one to pander to people.

I'm still asking why people demand that the middle class and poor sacrifice the most, but they don't ask the same of the ruling class and wealthy class? god forbid they should have to put off buying a New beemer for six months to a year.

[Aurum and Argentum]

public unions (private unions are great and dandy) are money laundering organizations. All I see is an unholy orgies of vote buying and grandstanding ...... Please if 100 k+ of salaries plus benefits is the middle class then what really are those majority of americans earning 35k - 40k + yearly. Bleh.... and all these comes from taxpayers money! (come on i can empathize more if its a private fund)

/endofrant

corporations do more vote buying than public unions
edit: and public workers do not get as high of salaries as private workers in the same field do, hence why they get better benefits to counter-balance.

darling if I can retire at 45 + all those other benefits, I will opt for a public position ...... and imagine I can have tenure too. Can you say the same to the private employees?

[Wilgrove]

corporations do more vote buying than public unions
edit: and public workers do not get as high of salaries as private workers in the same field do, hence why they get better benefits to counter-balance.

darling if I can retire at 45 + all those other benefits, I will opt for a public position ...... and imagine I can have tenure too. Can you say the same to the private employees?

Yea, find me one teacher who has been able to retire at the age of 45 and still have enough money to live on for the rest of their life.

[Aurum and Argentum]

yep income and benefits bloated up with there political backers..... nice way of legal laundering. Just like elect me and I make sure I will boost all your pensions campaign.

Yes, because Democrats are the only one to pander to people.

I'm still asking why people demand that the middle class and poor sacrifice the most, but they don't ask the same of the ruling class and wealthy class? god forbid they should have to put off buying a New beemer for six months to a year.

You must confuse the middle class and the poor if you have what you have from the union back employees...

Oh noes dont get me wrong both parties both pandered to their people..... problem here is that unions used my taxes to bloat up their own members so that they in turn elect someone who is in a position to protect their golden eggs

[Risottia]

I believe they're doing wrong because they are still getting paid for technicaly not working and they are also working in Illinois and not paying taxes.

They're doing their job: which is representing the opinion of their electors. So, stop waving red herrings, thank you.

[There is no cow level]

darling if I can retire at 45 + all those other benefits, I will opt for a public position ...... and imagine I can have tenure too. Can you say the same to the private employees?

Yea, find me one teacher who has been able to retire at the age of 45 and still have enough money to live on for the rest of their life.

Most teachers I have come across who teach in a public environment won't get to retire with full benefits until at least 60-65

[Wilgrove]

Yes, because Democrats are the only one to pander to people.

I'm still asking why people demand that the middle class and poor sacrifice the most, but they don't ask the same of the ruling class and wealthy class? god forbid they should have to put off buying a New beemer for six months to a year.

You must confuse the middle class and the poor if you have what you have from the union back employees...

Oh noes dont get me wrong both parties both pandered to their people..... problem here is that unions used my taxes to bloat up their own members so that they in turn elect someone who is in a position to protect their golden eggs

Once again, once the money enters into their possession, it stop being "taxes" and start being "income". It's not that hard of a concept to understand really. People are free to do whatever they want with their money, including paying Union dues. Don't like it, then don't be in a Union. Also, how is that different than the rich and wealthy electing politicians to protect their golden eggs?

You seem to be in the habit of blaming one side, but excusing the other side.

[Wilgrove]

Yea, find me one teacher who has been able to retire at the age of 45 and still have enough money to live on for the rest of their life.

Most teachers I have come across who teach in a public environment won't get to retire with full benefits until at least 60-65

True.

[There is no cow level]

Yes, because Democrats are the only one to pander to people.

I'm still asking why people demand that the middle class and poor sacrifice the most, but they don't ask the same of the ruling class and wealthy class? god forbid they should have to put off buying a New beemer for six months to a year.

You must confuse the middle class and the poor if you have what you have from the union back employees...

Oh noes dont get me wrong both parties both pandered to their people..... problem here is that unions used my taxes to bloat up their own members so that they in turn elect someone who is in a position to protect their golden eggs

you forget that not all unions abuse their funds. You're letting a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

[Aurum and Argentum]

darling if I can retire at 45 + all those other benefits, I will opt for a public position ...... and imagine I can have tenure too. Can you say the same to the private employees?

Yea, find me one teacher who has been able to retire at the age of 45 and still have enough money to live on for the rest of their life.

I can tell you more people who work til 70 + and still dont have enough pension to finance their expenses for next 10-15 years.... unfortunately they dont work in government.

[Coffee Cakes]

I've seen people lose credibility. It's been a while since I've seen it cast aside so gleefully.

What's wrong with my opinion?

And sadly, I can't help but laugh at what you said. I may just sig that...

[Wilgrove]

Yea, find me one teacher who has been able to retire at the age of 45 and still have enough money to live on for the rest of their life.

I can tell you more people who work til 70 + and still dont have enough pension to finance their expenses for next 10-15 years.... unfortunately they dont work in government.

Ooooorrrrrr you could just answer my question, yea that'd be nice. Answer the damn question. Find me one teacher who's been able to retire at the age of 45 with full benefits and pension.

[There is no cow level]

Yea, find me one teacher who has been able to retire at the age of 45 and still have enough money to live on for the rest of their life.

I can tell you more people who work til 70 + and still dont have enough pension to finance their expenses for next 10-15 years.... unfortunately they dont work in government.

and that is more common in right-to-work states which have tight restrictions on unions. Unions are like nutrients, you can't have an over-abundance but you can't have a deficiency either.

[There is no cow level]

I can tell you more people who work til 70 + and still dont have enough pension to finance their expenses for next 10-15 years.... unfortunately they dont work in government.

Ooooorrrrrr you could just answer my question, yea that'd be nice. Answer the damn question. Find me one teacher who's been able to retire at the age of 45 with full benefits and pension.

question dodging ftw

[Coffee Cakes]

I can tell you more people who work til 70 + and still dont have enough pension to finance their expenses for next 10-15 years.... unfortunately they dont work in government.

Ooooorrrrrr you could just answer my question, yea that'd be nice. Answer the damn question. Find me one teacher who's been able to retire at the age of 45 with full benefits and pension.

I don't think they can retire that early and have everything paid for.
I only know RI stats (Where I went to school, I live in MA now.) and there, the teacher has to be in the same school district for 20 years to get full retirement benefits.

[Aurum and Argentum]

I can tell you more people who work til 70 + and still dont have enough pension to finance their expenses for next 10-15 years.... unfortunately they dont work in government.

Ooooorrrrrr you could just answer my question, yea that'd be nice. Answer the damn question. Find me one teacher who's been able to retire at the age of 45 with full benefits and pension.

I did not say full benefits ..... I say that they have the luxury to retire at 45 with benefits. And since we are doing this can you show me a comparison of the average union back retirement benefits as compared to those people hired in private and can you even call it equal and proportionate.

I still stand this public union not the privates ones are laundering outlets.

[Delator]

What's wrong with my opinion?

The fact that you casually dismiss the hard work and effort of a wide spectrum of people for no objectively justifiable reason.


For how much you slag on public employees for not "actually working"...I'd bet you've done precious little "work" in your own life.

[There is no cow level]

Ooooorrrrrr you could just answer my question, yea that'd be nice. Answer the damn question. Find me one teacher who's been able to retire at the age of 45 with full benefits and pension.

I don't think they can retire that early and have everything paid for.
I only know RI stats (Where I went to school, I live in MA now.) and there, the teacher has to be in the same school district for 20 years to get full retirement benefits.

wouldn't be able to do that in new hampshire, well the city of manchester anyways. The mayor cut education to the point where you'd learn more watching tv. He had a great deal of teachers fired, and his only supporters were....guess who....the wealthier members of the city, all claiming that they didn't want their tax dollar going to pay for kids that weren't theirs to go to school. Not to mention he had more than half the transit employees laid off. He did all this so that he could have more of the cities money at his disposal to get himself a new car, even though he already had at least 3. All this was done because there really aren't any public unions in the city.

[Coffee Cakes]

What's wrong with my opinion?

The fact that you casually dismiss the hard work and effort of a wide spectrum of people for no objectively justifiable reason.


For how much you slag on public employees for not "actually working"...I'd bet you've done precious little "work" in your own life.

I actually do work... sadly. I have possibly the best or worst job in my family... I get to take care of the 50% that's elderly. Sometimes it's a giant pain in the @$$, like going to the RMV, other times it's not all that bad, but I probably do more in an hour than they do in a year.

[Wilgrove]

Ooooorrrrrr you could just answer my question, yea that'd be nice. Answer the damn question. Find me one teacher who's been able to retire at the age of 45 with full benefits and pension.

I did not say full benefits ..... I say that they have the luxury to retire at 45 with benefits. And since we are doing this can you show me a comparison of the average union back retirement benefits as compared to those people hired in private and can you even call it equal and proportionate.

I still stand this public union not the privates ones are laundering outlets.

So you can't answer the question. Nice to know.

[There is no cow level]

The fact that you casually dismiss the hard work and effort of a wide spectrum of people for no objectively justifiable reason.


For how much you slag on public employees for not "actually working"...I'd bet you've done precious little "work" in your own life.

I actually do work... sadly. I have possibly the best or worst job in my family... I get to take care of the 50% that's elderly. Sometimes it's a giant pain in the @$$, like going to the RMV, other times it's not all that bad, but I probably do more in an hour than they do in a year.

not all public workers sit on their asses. If that were the case then the country would be in a far worsened state than it is now.

[Coffee Cakes]

I don't think they can retire that early and have everything paid for.
I only know RI stats (Where I went to school, I live in MA now.) and there, the teacher has to be in the same school district for 20 years to get full retirement benefits.

wouldn't be able to do that in new hampshire, well the city of manchester anyways. The mayor cut education to the point where you'd learn more watching tv. He had a great deal of teachers fired, and his only supporters were....guess who....the wealthier members of the city, all claiming that they didn't want their tax dollar going to pay for kids that weren't theirs to go to school. Not to mention he had more than half the transit employees laid off. He did all this so that he could have more of the cities money at his disposal to get himself a new car, even though he already had at least 3. All this was done because there really aren't any public unions in the city.

Firing a lot of teachers is ridiculous, unless they're not performing well. How good were Manchester's students doing before the firings?

And if you want to see it done right, google "Central Falls, RI". That superintendent is trying to fix the system.

[Aurum and Argentum]

I did not say full benefits ..... I say that they have the luxury to retire at 45 with benefits. And since we are doing this can you show me a comparison of the average union back retirement benefits as compared to those people hired in private and can you even call it equal and proportionate.

I still stand this public union not the privates ones are laundering outlets.

So you can't answer the question. Nice to know.

I have answered your query. Now how about answering mine?

[Coffee Cakes]

not all public workers sit on their asses. If that were the case then the country would be in a far worsened state than it is now.

Can it get any worse?
Actually, in MA, every public worker in a union besides teachers, firefighters, and the fuzz don't do a darn thing. I remember one time waiting in line for 3 hours to get my state ID and for the first 45 minutes or so, there wasn't a mouse in the house, so to speak.

[Borinque (Ancient)]

Civic involvement doesn't on election day.
Union pay for government workers on average ain't all that high, not like some make it sound. Also WI the only issue is the gov's efforts at breaking the union w/ rectification, and the dues along w some other policies. The unions are willing to work w him on pay and benefits. If you cut the top management's (the director's division heads and all the elected people and the political appointees) pay 1/3 of whats being asked of the career people. A lot off money would be saved also the rank and file would gladly match that. The 1st rule of good leadership is don't ask your people to do that which you wouldn't do.
The unions ain't bleed GM and Chrysler dry. GM started it w the Corviar, they should of reworked when Nader went after them. Next was not adopting robotic technology sooner and faster - F... the union demands on that one. After that was the model names some were kept long, others should of been kept longer. The Camaro, Corvette, Eldorado, Aurora, Electra and the Citation should of been leading technology models for their class (the top of the line models for 2011 lets say standard features and options would be standard features in later years in other models). Chrysler could decide what it wanted to be. And these fall on management they f'd up