Flaws in a barter society

by **GothicLust** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:05 am

An acquaintance was telling me the other day how money is evil and the cause for many social problems. He suggested that we go back to a barter society. Trading services and goods for other services and goods. I see how this could work on a small scale, but I don't think it's a sustainable thing in the long run. What do you think?

by **Georgism** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:06 am

I think we should have a barter system where everybody trades things for money. I haven't thought of a name for it yet but when I do I'm going to write a book about it and try to get the world to follow my system.

by **Fionnuala_Saoirse** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:07 am

How does an employee for a large company accurately determine a barter value for the companies products that their employers would find acceptable.

by **United Dependencies** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:07 am

Georgism wrote:I think we should have a barter system where everybody trades things for money.

That sounds familiar...

Either way that is a genius idea. I would participate in this system.

by **Lackadaisical2** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:08 am

It makes everything a pain in the ass. Sooooooooo much easier to carry around a stack of bills, or some magic plastic card I could use on some sort of international network to instant buy things than it is to ship a box of chickens to Singapore.

by **Barringtonia** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:08 am

The flaw is inefficiency, if I have a chicken that I wish to barter for your speakers but you have no need for chickens then I have to hunt around to find someone I can barter my chicken with, a specific someone who has something you want. Better to just sell it for money to anyone who wants a chicken and give the money to you to buy whatever you want.

Lackadaisical2 wrote:It makes everything a pain in the ass. Sooooooooo much easier to carry around a stack of bills, or some magic plastic card I could use on some sort of international network to instant buy things than it is to ship a box of chickens to Singapore.

...AND... and, not have to ship those chickens to Singapore.

It's always flippin' chickens.

by **Cuniculi** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:13 am

Money has a fixed value, trade items do not.

No one is in doubt about how much a $20 bill is worth, but the same is not true for a goat.

by **Canadian Intellectuals** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:14 am

Money is fine, as long as you don't give private corporations (currently called banks) the power to expand and contract the money supply at will.

by **Johz** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:15 am

Well, it's easier to carry around chunks of metal than cows, and it has a very readily definable value. A cow might be worth five chickens or eight mongeese in your book, but one mongoose might not be five eighths of a chicken. Money's very easy to divide and subdivide to obtain small accurate amounts.

Plus, all the bankers would have to become farmers. Can you really see them doing that?

by **Conservative-Values** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:15 am

Huge fail. In a barter society, businesses aren't allowed to innovate because there is no incentive to innovate. After the creation of credit markets during the Renaissance period, innovation was pervasive. We would have any of the innovative products we have today if credit and capital markets were closed in favor of a barter system.

by **Georgism** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:15 am

Cuniculi wrote:Money has a fixed value, trade items do not.

No one is in doubt about how much a $20 bill is worth, but the same is not true for a goat.

Well a hot woman is worth about 5 cows, or 20 sheep, so you can work it all out from there.

by **Alevuss** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:17 am

Fionnuala_Saoirse wrote:How does an employee for a large company accurately determine a barter value for the companies products that their employers would find acceptable.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

They would need to know what the employees want and need. This would help determine the value. Sadly, this leaves a company wide open for corruption.

Or, if the workers don't get what they want, they leave.

by **Horsefish** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:17 am

Georgism wrote:
Cuniculi wrote:Money has a fixed value, trade items do not.

No one is in doubt about how much a $20 bill is worth, but the same is not true for a goat.

Well a hot woman is worth about 5 cows, or 20 sheep, so you can work it all out from there.

So a cow=4 sheep.

Right we could work with this.

by **Canadian Intellectuals** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:18 am

Cuniculi wrote:Money has a fixed value, trade items do not.

No one is in doubt about how much a $20 bill is worth, but the same is not true for a goat.

This is dead wrong. A $20 bill is only worth what it will buy you, and that is far from fixed.

by **Cuniculi** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:19 am

Georgism wrote:Well a hot woman is worth about 5 cows, or 20 sheep, so you can work it all out from there.

The Barter Society: Where money is evil and farmers get all the hot women.

by **Horsefish** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:19 am

Cuniculi wrote:
Georgism wrote:Well a hot woman is worth about 5 cows, or 20 sheep, so you can work it all out from there.

The Barter Society: Where money is evil and farmers get all the hot women.

The perks of living somewhere rural

by **Fionnuala_Saoirse** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:20 am

Alevuss wrote:
Fionnuala_Saoirse wrote:How does an employee for a large company accurately determine a barter value for the companies products that their employers would find acceptable.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

They would need to know what the employees want and need. This would help determine the value. Sadly, this leaves a company wide open for corruption.

Or, if the workers don't get what they want, they leave.

I was talking about the interaction between employee (e.g. cashier) and consumer

by **Rambhutan** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:21 am

You can't keep track of ever shifting exchange values between different goods. Plus bankers don't want their massive bonuses paid in chickens.

by **Lackadaisical2** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:22 am

Canadian Intellectuals wrote:
Cuniculi wrote:Money has a fixed value, trade items do not.

No one is in doubt about how much a $20 bill is worth, but the same is not true for a goat.

This is dead wrong. A $20 bill is only worth what it will buy you, and that is far from fixed.

I have to agree with CI here. Theres inflation and deflation to worry about, and even then it hits some goods more than others, the value of currency is always in flux, but so long as its a small flux, the system works better than barter in that regard.

by **Cuniculi** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:22 am

Canadian Intellectuals wrote:
Cuniculi wrote:Money has a fixed value, trade items do not.

No one is in doubt about how much a $20 bill is worth, but the same is not true for a goat.

This is dead wrong. A $20 bill is only worth what it will buy you, and that is far from fixed.

Okay, not what I meant. You can argue all day long about how much $20 dollars is "worth," but ultimately you have a value set in your head of what $20 can reasonably buy. At least I do.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that have no fucking idea how much a cow is worth.

by **Lackadaisical2** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:24 am

Cuniculi wrote:
Canadian Intellectuals wrote:
This is dead wrong. A $20 bill is only worth what it will buy you, and that is far from fixed.

Okay, not what I meant. You can argue all day long about how much $20 dollars is "worth," but ultimately you have a value set in your head of what $20 can reasonably buy. At least I do.

That expectation only exists because we have a stable monetary system. If you go Zimbabwe or something then who knows how much an xbox should cost.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that have no fucking idea how much a cow is worth.

Thats only because you didn't grow up with cows as part of a barter system.

by **Barringtonia** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:24 am

Horsefish wrote:
Cuniculi wrote:The Barter Society: Where money is evil and farmers get all the hot women.

The perks of living somewhere rural

Of course, with a monetary system the hot women have flocked to the city and the farmers are just left with sheep.

by **Ashmoria** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:26 am

GothicLust wrote:An acquaintance was telling me the other day how money is evil and the cause for many social problems. He suggested that we go back to a barter society. Trading services and goods for other services and goods. I see how this could work on a small scale, but I don't think it's a sustainable thing in the long run. What do you think?

it doesnt work in a complex society

how many onions and chickens do i have to bring my doctor in order to get my gall bladder out?

by **Northwest Slobovia** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:29 am

Barringtonia wrote:The flaw is inefficiency, if I have a chicken that I wish to barter for your speakers but you have no need for chickens then I have to hunt around to find someone I can barter my chicken with, a specific someone who has something you want. Better to just sell it for money to anyone who wants a chicken and give the money to you to buy whatever you want.

This. Emphatically.

The inefficiency is crushing, especially for the poor. They're already short of everything with a money economy, and now barter makes them spend lots of time trying to get "paid" for their work. It's less bad for the rich; they can always hire somebody to play the role of money for them by running around and trading stuff. During a relatively late period of the Byzantine Empire, their coinage was so debased that they ended up with a barter economy, and this is what happened to them.

Coins good, paper money better, credit best.

by **Soviet Haaregrad** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:32 am

Ashmoria wrote:
GothicLust wrote:An acquaintance was telling me the other day how money is evil and the cause for many social problems. He suggested that we go back to a barter society. Trading services and goods for other services and goods. I see how this could work on a small scale, but I don't think it's a sustainable thing in the long run. What do you think?

it doesnt work in a complex society

how many onions and chickens do i have to bring my doctor in order to get my gall bladder out?

Your health insurance should cover that. A better question is how many goats and potatoes a year does this health insurance cost and will they accept onions and chickens instead.

Flaws in a barter society

Flaws in a barter society

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