Exactly how ****ed is Detroit?

[Sibirsky]

It's a bit odd, yes. But poverty breeds crime. And immigrants, for the most part are poorer. So you have waves of different immigrants (in the US case) and gang problems and things like that. Listen to anti-immigration people and all they talk about is Hispanics. Go back a hundred or so years, and those same people are talking about the Irish. The Westies were meanies. And MS13 s not a charitable organization either.

The only solution is time. Over time, the recent immigrants will adjust, learn the language etc. etc. The Irish are now one of the highest earning ethnic groups in the US.

Sibby, but how much time? You have many immigrant families, living in the US for generations, that don't seem to be able to adjust to the country.

A generation? NERVUN posts sources that point out that Hispanic immigrants are adjusting at the same rate as any other ethnic group.

Some people just find it harder than others.

[Sibirsky]

Damn, I hate that! When people walk around thinking they're so gangster. They're not, I know what real gangsters are like, and it's not some dipshit kid wearing baggy pants and making gang signs.

It's actually kinda funny when you think about it. They're like "black wiggers".

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Sibby, but how much time? You have many immigrant families, living in the US for generations, that don't seem to be able to adjust to the country.

A generation? NERVUN posts sources that point out that Hispanic immigrants are adjusting at the same rate as any other ethnic group.

Some people just find it harder than others.

Well, all I can say is that I hope they adjust. It is both theirs and the countries' interests. And by this I mean all immigrant groups.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I bet Robocop could clean it up.

[Sibirsky]

A generation? NERVUN posts sources that point out that Hispanic immigrants are adjusting at the same rate as any other ethnic group.

Some people just find it harder than others.

Well, all I can say is that I hope they adjust. It is both theirs and the countries' interests. And by this I mean all immigrant groups.

Right. They will, I have no doubt. I mean as a whole, obviously there will be people that have problems with it.

[Servantium]

Detroit is not as bad as it's made out to be. You should go there sometime. I love Detroit!

More like, everywhere that's mostly red is not all that bad:

[Sibirsky]

Grosse Pointe is awesome

[Sibirsky]

1. They DO assimilate. 3 generations and they are fully American, the same as every other damn immigrant culture that has ever come here. 2. Anchor babies are a myth. Sorry to tell you that.

http://www.splcenter.org/publications/u ... ration-law
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... irthright/
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Anchor-Ba ... id=5328833

Among others. Having a US citizen child does not keep the immigrant from deportation. The US has no qualms about deporting someone and breaking a family. a child has to be 21 in order to sponsor a parent for immigration to the US and said illegal immigrant needs to return to their home country for at least 10 years.

Finally, there is very little evidence that immigrants are coming to the US in any appreciable numbers just for having babies. The bulk are here for jobs.

It's a myth.

[Maraque]

No. I initially misinterpreted it as a more broad generalized view, not of the case specifically in Detroit.

That doesn't negate the fact I have my doubts that such is the case in such an extreme there, however.

Visit Detroit, and the rougher parts of town. You'll see.

The street my grandparents live on looks like a war zone. I don't know where in Detroit exactly, but it's not a place I want to be for very long.

It was on par with my maternal grandmothers neighborhood in Irvington, New Jersey, where in a span of 30 minutes I witnessed a drug deal, a man get beaten with a piece of ply wood, and a stolen Jaguar with Alabama plates slam into a tree.

[Georgism]

What, Detriot seems nicer than most parts of Britain. I don't see the fuss.

Wut.

[Sun Aut Ex]

1. They DO assimilate. 3 generations and they are fully American, the same as every other damn immigrant culture that has ever come here. 2. Anchor babies are a myth. Sorry to tell you that.

http://www.splcenter.org/publications/u ... ration-law
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... irthright/
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Anchor-Ba ... id=5328833

Among others. Having a US citizen child does not keep the immigrant from deportation. The US has no qualms about deporting someone and breaking a family. a child has to be 21 in order to sponsor a parent for immigration to the US and said illegal immigrant needs to return to their home country for at least 10 years.

Finally, there is very little evidence that immigrants are coming to the US in any appreciable numbers just for having babies. The bulk are here for jobs.

It's a myth.

Is it wrong that laughed at the mental image of an illegal immigrant going to the immigration dept, holding up a baby and going "Right, give me my papers, I'm a citizen now" and the office worker going "Uhh, no you're not"?

[Sibirsky]

Visit Detroit, and the rougher parts of town. You'll see.

The street my grandparents live on looks like a war zone. I don't know where in Detroit exactly, but it's not a place I want to be for very long.

It was on par with my maternal grandmothers neighborhood in Irvington, New Jersey, where in a span of 30 minutes I witnessed a drug deal, a man get beaten with a piece of ply wood, and a stolen Jaguar with Alabama plates slam into a tree.

Irvington experienced the crack epidemic of the 1980s and the city still struggles with the aftermath today. The city still has a violent crime rate six times higher than New Jersey overall and a murder rate eight times higher than statewide statistics. As of 2007, the New Jersey State Police reported that Irvington had a violent crime rate of 22.4 incidents per 1,000 population, the highest of all 15 major urban areas in the state.[9] Irvington is more dangerous than Camden, but since it has a population less than 75,000, Irvington wasn't eligible to rank as one of the most dangerous cities in the country.

Estimated median household income in 2009: $44,989 (it was $36,575 in 2000)
Irvington: $44,989
New Jersey: $68,342

[Sibirsky]

Is it wrong that laughed at the mental image of an illegal immigrant going to the immigration dept, holding up a baby and going "Right, give me my papers, I'm a citizen now" and the office worker going "Uhh, no you're not"?

No.

[Sibirsky]

What, Detriot seems nicer than most parts of Britain. I don't see the fuss.

Wut.

The UK is the epicenter of organized crime*.

*/sacrasm

[Georgism]

Wut.

The UK is the epicenter of organized crime*.

*/sacrasm

It's true. When I'm not posting on NS I'm out doing drive-bys and paying off policemen.

[Maraque]

The street my grandparents live on looks like a war zone. I don't know where in Detroit exactly, but it's not a place I want to be for very long.

It was on par with my maternal grandmothers neighborhood in Irvington, New Jersey, where in a span of 30 minutes I witnessed a drug deal, a man get beaten with a piece of ply wood, and a stolen Jaguar with Alabama plates slam into a tree.

Irvington experienced the crack epidemic of the 1980s and the city still struggles with the aftermath today. The city still has a violent crime rate six times higher than New Jersey overall and a murder rate eight times higher than statewide statistics. As of 2007, the New Jersey State Police reported that Irvington had a violent crime rate of 22.4 incidents per 1,000 population, the highest of all 15 major urban areas in the state.[9] Irvington is more dangerous than Camden, but since it has a population less than 75,000, Irvington wasn't eligible to rank as one of the most dangerous cities in the country.

Estimated median household income in 2009: $44,989 (it was $36,575 in 2000)
Irvington: $44,989
New Jersey: $68,342

Yep, I'm aware.

Which is why I'm shocked that my grandmother lives there by choice. She lived with my family for a month or so, but left to go back there. It boggles the mind.

[Sibirsky]

The UK is the epicenter of organized crime*.

*/sacrasm

It's true. When I'm not posting on NS I'm out doing drive-bys and paying off policemen.

I knew it!

[Sibirsky]

Yep, I'm aware.

Which is why I'm shocked that my grandmother lives there by choice. She lived with my family for a month or so, but left to go back there. It boggles the mind.

I can't speak for your grandma, but I'm guessing she considers it home.

After Hurricane Katrina, people returned, and said they would never live anywhere else. Some people live in the "Zone of Alienation" around the Chenrobyl power plant. To them, nothing else is home.

[Ex-Brogavia]

The crime comes from the culture as much as it does the poverty. The source of it stems from the babydaddy/babymomma concept that runs rampant in the black and mexican communities and is starting to seep into the white community. The idea is that the kid is mom's problem, and the guy is free to do whatever, and pretty much runs out on the kid. This leaves the kid to grow up without a positive male role model, and the kid quickly takes to the streets looking for one, usually finding gangs. This problem never use to be an issue when there was a cultural stigma around leaving a pregnant woman to fend for herself, or running out on your children. Now, in these communities, not only is it accepted, it is even embraced. It is considered acceptable to have kids with one woman, then go on and find another, leaving the kids fatherless, and without a father, there is no one to teach these boys how to be men.

[Sibirsky]

The crime comes from the culture as much as it does the poverty. The source of it stems from the babydaddy/babymomma concept that runs rampant in the black and mexican communities and is starting to seep into the white community. The idea is that the kid is mom's problem, and the guy is free to do whatever, and pretty much runs out on the kid. This leaves the kid to grow up without a positive male role model, and the kid quickly takes to the streets looking for one, usually finding gangs. This problem never use to be an issue when there was a cultural stigma around leaving a pregnant woman to fend for herself, or running out on your children. Now, in these communities, not only is it accepted, it is even embraced. It is considered acceptable to have kids with one woman, then go on and find another, leaving the kids fatherless, and without a father, there is no one to teach these boys how to be men.

That's not culture. That's the incentive program. The mother is still there. The effective father is the US government.

[Ex-Brogavia]

The crime comes from the culture as much as it does the poverty. The source of it stems from the babydaddy/babymomma concept that runs rampant in the black and mexican communities and is starting to seep into the white community. The idea is that the kid is mom's problem, and the guy is free to do whatever, and pretty much runs out on the kid. This leaves the kid to grow up without a positive male role model, and the kid quickly takes to the streets looking for one, usually finding gangs. This problem never use to be an issue when there was a cultural stigma around leaving a pregnant woman to fend for herself, or running out on your children. Now, in these communities, not only is it accepted, it is even embraced. It is considered acceptable to have kids with one woman, then go on and find another, leaving the kids fatherless, and without a father, there is no one to teach these boys how to be men.

That's not culture. That's the incentive program. The mother is still there. The effective father is the US government.

The cultural embracing of the baby momma concept is a cultural problem.

Of course, for suggesting that white people are not the sole cause of black and mexican poverty, and that part of it lies with them, I will surely be branded a racist.

[Sibirsky]

That's not culture. That's the incentive program. The mother is still there. The effective father is the US government.

The cultural embracing of the baby momma concept is a cultural problem.

Of course, for suggesting that white people are not the sole cause of black and mexican poverty, and that part of it lies with them, I will surely be branded a racist.

[Gauthier]

It is an ancient Chinese punishment.

[Tmutarakhan]

I read this article, and you know, before the article I knew that Detroit was economically troubled and had crime problems, but I didn't think it was at the "truly doomed" stage.

Can any Americans (Detroitans in particular) shine some light on the subject for me?

DetroitERS is the proper term (no, I'm not going to shoot you). I was there for 15 years before escaping to California (no wish to go back). I had an apartment a couple blocks from the Wayne State campus, where the university neighborhood was starting to turn into the bombed-out nothing called "Cass Corridor". The neighbor upstairs hadn't paid January rent and wasn't going to be able to make February, so he barricaded himself in the apartment while the manager tried to talk to him, then set the apartment on fire. He was the only one killed: Frank (the manager) was quite heroic getting everybody out at 3 AM. I was luckily at my mom's house, doing all my laundry-- so I had clothes; lots of people got out with nothing. I came back to find crime-scene tape, fire trucks, cop cars, the Fox News van, and a large milling crowd around the building, never a good sign. It looked like the fourth floor was all destroyed but the rest was fine: however, I was told the fire hoses had been trained on it for hours, so everything was water-logged and it was freezing, below zero Fahrenheit (has anyone mentioned that the weather is as crappy as the economy?) I got to the front to ask Frank "How's the third floor?" and he said "Depends what part of the third floor." I said "I'm in 311" and he said "I'm very sorry": it was in 411 that the guy set the fire; it was weeks before the fire marshalls let me in and large chunks of the ceiling and the apartment above were in my place (not the body, thank God). I didn't salvage much, and took it as a sign from God that it was time to move.

[Soviet Haaregrad]

To answer the title, like Sasha Grey at the end of a day of work.