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SD wants to endrun Roe v Wade by legalizing murder of docs

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Nulono
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Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:59 am

Sdaeriji wrote:
Nulono wrote:She has jurisdiction over all of the blue, but none of the red.


She's evicting the fetus from the blue. Where the fetus goes is not her concern. Unless you believe that a person has the right to make demands on the bodily integrity of another, in which case give me your kidneys so I can sell them.

I believe a person has a right to not be killed.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
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Geniasis
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Posts: 7531
Founded: Sep 28, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Geniasis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:06 am

Nulono wrote:I believe a person has a right to not be killed.


I believe a person has a right to determine who does and does not have access to his or her body.
Supporter of making [citation needed] the official NSG way to say "source?"

Myrensis wrote:I say turn it into a brothel, that way Muslims and Christians can be offended together.


DaWoad wrote:nah, she only fought because, as everyone knows, the brits can't make a decent purse to save their lives and she had a VERY important shopping trip coming up!


Reichskommissariat ost wrote:Women are as good as men , I dont know why they constantly whine about things.


Euronion wrote:because how dare me ever ever try to demand rights for myself, right men, we should just lie down and let the women trample over us, let them take awa our rights, our right to vote will be next just don't say I didn't warn ou
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Nulono
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Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
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Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:08 am

Geniasis wrote:
Nulono wrote:I believe a person has a right to not be killed.


I believe a person has a right to determine who does and does not have access to his or her body.

I believe that right does not extend to homicide.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
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DaWoad
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Posts: 9066
Founded: Nov 05, 2005
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Postby DaWoad » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:10 am

Nulono wrote:
Sdaeriji wrote:
She's evicting the fetus from the blue. Where the fetus goes is not her concern. Unless you believe that a person has the right to make demands on the bodily integrity of another, in which case give me your kidneys so I can sell them.

I believe a person has a right to not be killed.

Not a problem, fetuses aren't people.
Official Nation States Trainer
Factbook:http://nationstates.wikia.com/wiki/User:Dawoad
Alliances:The Hegemony, The GDF, SCUTUM

Supporter of making [citation needed] the official NSG way to say "source?"
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Nulono
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Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:11 am

DaWoad wrote:
Nulono wrote:I believe a person has a right to not be killed.

Not a problem, fetuses aren't people.

Are too.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
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Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41248
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:12 am

Nulono wrote:
DaWoad wrote:Not a problem, fetuses aren't people.

Are too.


What do droids have to do with this?
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Geniasis
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Posts: 7531
Founded: Sep 28, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Geniasis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:13 am

Nulono wrote:I believe that right does not extend to homicide.


It is not homicide any more than if a man was hooked up to me and my kidney and died when I unhooked it.

Nulono wrote:
DaWoad wrote:Not a problem, fetuses aren't people.

Are too.


What is your definition of "person"?
Supporter of making [citation needed] the official NSG way to say "source?"

Myrensis wrote:I say turn it into a brothel, that way Muslims and Christians can be offended together.


DaWoad wrote:nah, she only fought because, as everyone knows, the brits can't make a decent purse to save their lives and she had a VERY important shopping trip coming up!


Reichskommissariat ost wrote:Women are as good as men , I dont know why they constantly whine about things.


Euronion wrote:because how dare me ever ever try to demand rights for myself, right men, we should just lie down and let the women trample over us, let them take awa our rights, our right to vote will be next just don't say I didn't warn ou
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DaWoad
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Posts: 9066
Founded: Nov 05, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby DaWoad » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:18 am

Nulono wrote:
DaWoad wrote:Not a problem, fetuses aren't people.

Are too.

'Nah, well not by any human definition anyway. The lack of brain function=not person under any law that's not going to have anybody burying a corpse being charged with murder.
Official Nation States Trainer
Factbook:http://nationstates.wikia.com/wiki/User:Dawoad
Alliances:The Hegemony, The GDF, SCUTUM

Supporter of making [citation needed] the official NSG way to say "source?"
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Nulono
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Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:18 am

Geniasis wrote:
Nulono wrote:I believe that right does not extend to homicide.


It is not homicide any more than if a man was hooked up to me and my kidney and died when I unhooked it.
That would be homicide.

Nulono wrote:Are too.


What is your definition of "person"?

Human being, what's yours?
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
Top
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Geniasis
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Posts: 7531
Founded: Sep 28, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Geniasis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:20 am

Nulono wrote:That would be homicide.


The hypothetical man has no right to my kidney. Why would he?

Human being, what's yours?


Actualized human beings instead of potential ones.
Supporter of making [citation needed] the official NSG way to say "source?"

Myrensis wrote:I say turn it into a brothel, that way Muslims and Christians can be offended together.


DaWoad wrote:nah, she only fought because, as everyone knows, the brits can't make a decent purse to save their lives and she had a VERY important shopping trip coming up!


Reichskommissariat ost wrote:Women are as good as men , I dont know why they constantly whine about things.


Euronion wrote:because how dare me ever ever try to demand rights for myself, right men, we should just lie down and let the women trample over us, let them take awa our rights, our right to vote will be next just don't say I didn't warn ou
Top
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Nulono
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Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:20 am

DaWoad wrote:
Nulono wrote:Are too.

'Nah, well not by any human definition anyway. The lack of brain function=not person under any law that's not going to have anybody burying a corpse being charged with murder.

Um, plenty of humans don't give the brain special treatment when it comes to organs. If the entity is alive and human, the entity is a person.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
Top
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Nulono
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Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:22 am

Geniasis wrote:
Nulono wrote:That would be homicide.


The hypothetical man has no right to my kidney. Why would he?
I didn't say he did. I said killing him would be homicide.

Human being, what's yours?


Actualized human beings instead of potential ones.

A fetus IS an actualized human being.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
Top
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Geniasis
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Posts: 7531
Founded: Sep 28, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Geniasis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:24 am

Nulono wrote:I didn't say he did. I said killing him would be homicide.


So the point is a meaningless one, then.

A fetus IS an actualized human being.


Not until it is born, or at the very least, viable.
Supporter of making [citation needed] the official NSG way to say "source?"

Myrensis wrote:I say turn it into a brothel, that way Muslims and Christians can be offended together.


DaWoad wrote:nah, she only fought because, as everyone knows, the brits can't make a decent purse to save their lives and she had a VERY important shopping trip coming up!


Reichskommissariat ost wrote:Women are as good as men , I dont know why they constantly whine about things.


Euronion wrote:because how dare me ever ever try to demand rights for myself, right men, we should just lie down and let the women trample over us, let them take awa our rights, our right to vote will be next just don't say I didn't warn ou
Top
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The Norwegian Blue
Minister
 
Posts: 2529
Founded: Jul 21, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Norwegian Blue » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:28 am

Nulono wrote:
Geniasis wrote:
The hypothetical man has no right to my kidney. Why would he?
I didn't say he did. I said killing him would be homicide.


Um, yes, you quite explicitly DID say so, by your own definition:

Nulono wrote:
Geniasis wrote:
I believe a person has a right to determine who does and does not have access to his or her body.

I believe that right does not extend to homicide.


Make up your mind.
Women are as good as men , I dont know why they constantly whine about things. - Reichskommissariat ost
...if you poop just to poop, then it is immoral. - Bandarikin
And if abortion was illegal, there wouldn't be male doctors - Green Port
Stop making a potato punch itself in the scrote after first manifesting a fist and a scrote. - RepentNowOrPayLater
And...you aren't aroused by the premise of a snot-hocking giraffe leaping through a third story bay window after a sex toy? What are you...I mean...are you some kind of weirdo or something? - Hammurab
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Nulono
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Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:29 am

Geniasis wrote:
Nulono wrote:I didn't say he did. I said killing him would be homicide.


So the point is a meaningless one, then.
What point?

A fetus IS an actualized human being.


Not until it is born, or at the very least, viable.

Uh, nope. The fetus is an actualized human being, albeit inside another one.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
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Vecherd
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Posts: 6161
Founded: Jun 16, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Vecherd » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:29 am

Daistallia 2104 wrote:The right wing has officially gone way past nuttiness with this one, off the deep end into hardcore psychopathy.


You would have known that Right Wing/Left Wing hasn`t anything to do with Social issues if you weren't so occupied throwing out lies about Right-Wing Politics.
[align=center]Frie markeder Frie folk
[spoiler=Political Stuff]Left/Right: 8.12
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -10.00
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Geniasis
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Posts: 7531
Founded: Sep 28, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Geniasis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:32 am

Nulono wrote:What point?


About the "right" not "extending to homicide". Either he has a right to use your kidney to sustain his life, or your right does extend to homicide.

Uh, nope. The fetus is an actualized human being, albeit inside another one.


Uh, nope. Until the fetus is viable, it is merely a potential human being.
Supporter of making [citation needed] the official NSG way to say "source?"

Myrensis wrote:I say turn it into a brothel, that way Muslims and Christians can be offended together.


DaWoad wrote:nah, she only fought because, as everyone knows, the brits can't make a decent purse to save their lives and she had a VERY important shopping trip coming up!


Reichskommissariat ost wrote:Women are as good as men , I dont know why they constantly whine about things.


Euronion wrote:because how dare me ever ever try to demand rights for myself, right men, we should just lie down and let the women trample over us, let them take awa our rights, our right to vote will be next just don't say I didn't warn ou
Top
User avatar
Nulono
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Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:33 am

The Norwegian Blue wrote:
Nulono wrote:I didn't say he did. I said killing him would be homicide.


Um, yes, you quite explicitly DID say so, by your own definition:

Nulono wrote:I believe that right does not extend to homicide.


Make up your mind.


You seem to be misunderstanding me. He does not have a right to your kidney. He DOES have a right not to be killed.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
Top
User avatar
Nulono
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Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:34 am

Geniasis wrote:
Nulono wrote:What point?


About the "right" not "extending to homicide". Either he has a right to use your kidney to sustain his life, or your right does extend to homicide.
Him not having a right to your body does NOT mean you have a right to kill him.

Uh, nope. The fetus is an actualized human being, albeit inside another one.


Uh, nope. Until the fetus is viable, it is merely a potential human being.
Nuh uh.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
Top
User avatar
Geniasis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7531
Founded: Sep 28, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Geniasis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:34 am

Nulono wrote:You seem to be misunderstanding me. He does not have a right to your kidney. He DOES have a right not to be killed.


You can't have it both ways. Exercising my right denies his right. Exercising his denies mine. Which one is it?
Supporter of making [citation needed] the official NSG way to say "source?"

Myrensis wrote:I say turn it into a brothel, that way Muslims and Christians can be offended together.


DaWoad wrote:nah, she only fought because, as everyone knows, the brits can't make a decent purse to save their lives and she had a VERY important shopping trip coming up!


Reichskommissariat ost wrote:Women are as good as men , I dont know why they constantly whine about things.


Euronion wrote:because how dare me ever ever try to demand rights for myself, right men, we should just lie down and let the women trample over us, let them take awa our rights, our right to vote will be next just don't say I didn't warn ou
Top
User avatar
Fiduses and Diuses
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 461
Founded: Oct 27, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Fiduses and Diuses » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:34 am

DaWoad wrote:
Nulono wrote:Are too.

'Nah, well not by any human definition anyway. The lack of brain function=not person under any law that's not going to have anybody burying a corpse being charged with murder.

Fetus(ie anything over eight weeks) have some brain activity if primarily reflexive at first.
Now an Embryo does not have any.
Last edited by Fiduses and Diuses on Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Nulono
Senator
 
Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:36 am

Geniasis wrote:
Nulono wrote:You seem to be misunderstanding me. He does not have a right to your kidney. He DOES have a right not to be killed.


You can't have it both ways. Exercising my right denies his right. Exercising his denies mine. Which one is it?

I never said you have a right to do anything. I said he has a right to not be killed by you.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
Top
User avatar
Geniasis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7531
Founded: Sep 28, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Geniasis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:37 am

Nulono wrote:I never said you have a right to do anything. I said he has a right to not be killed by you.


I also have a right to my bodily integrity. If I do not wish for someone else to use my kidney, I have no obligation to let that happen.
Supporter of making [citation needed] the official NSG way to say "source?"

Myrensis wrote:I say turn it into a brothel, that way Muslims and Christians can be offended together.


DaWoad wrote:nah, she only fought because, as everyone knows, the brits can't make a decent purse to save their lives and she had a VERY important shopping trip coming up!


Reichskommissariat ost wrote:Women are as good as men , I dont know why they constantly whine about things.


Euronion wrote:because how dare me ever ever try to demand rights for myself, right men, we should just lie down and let the women trample over us, let them take awa our rights, our right to vote will be next just don't say I didn't warn ou
Top
User avatar
Nulono
Senator
 
Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:37 am

Geniasis wrote:
Nulono wrote:I never said you have a right to do anything. I said he has a right to not be killed by you.


I also have a right to my bodily integrity. If I do not wish for someone else to use my kidney, I have no obligation to let that happen.

You DO have an obligation not to kill, however.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent
The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.
Top
User avatar
Geniasis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7531
Founded: Sep 28, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Geniasis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:40 am

Nulono wrote:You DO have an obligation not to kill, however.


So if I find him hooked up to my kidney, I have no right to stop him?
Supporter of making [citation needed] the official NSG way to say "source?"

Myrensis wrote:I say turn it into a brothel, that way Muslims and Christians can be offended together.


DaWoad wrote:nah, she only fought because, as everyone knows, the brits can't make a decent purse to save their lives and she had a VERY important shopping trip coming up!


Reichskommissariat ost wrote:Women are as good as men , I dont know why they constantly whine about things.


Euronion wrote:because how dare me ever ever try to demand rights for myself, right men, we should just lie down and let the women trample over us, let them take awa our rights, our right to vote will be next just don't say I didn't warn ou
Top
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