SD wants to endrun Roe v Wade by legalizing murder of docs

[L3 Communications]

Damn. I was expecting you to give the other answer. I had a wall-of-text ready to go and everything.

So what is it then? According to you, it's killing a person.

It's homicide. Murder, by definition, is illegal.

That you seem to think women should have to go through 9 months of hell because they were raped.

You'd rather an innocent child die for the crime of her father?

1) No, it's not, abortion is removal of a parasite not killing a human being.

2) It isn't a child. It's a parasite until birth.

[Nulono]

It's homicide. Murder, by definition, is illegal.


You'd rather an innocent child die for the crime of her father?

1) No, it's not, abortion is removal of a parasite not killing a human being.

2) It isn't a child. It's a parasite until birth.

1) What species is the fetus, a chicken? No. Any biologist will class the fetus as H. sapiens sapiens.
2) viewtopic.php?f=20&t=95968&p=4934389#p4934389

[The Cat-Tribe]

1) No, it's not, abortion is removal of a parasite not killing a human being.

2) It isn't a child. It's a parasite until birth.

What species is the fetus, a chicken? No. Any biologist will class the fetus as H. sapiens sapiens.

This is silly on both sides.

Homicide is the killing of one person by another.

If an unborn is a person, abortion is clearly homicide. That doesn't make it right or wrong. It just makes it homicide.

Of course, that is a ridiculously huge "if". 90% of abortions are obtained within the first 12 weeks of gestation, with 62% within the first 8 weeks of gestation. Only 5% of abortions are obtained at 16 or more weeks gestation. Etc, etc. In sum, the objects of abortion are usually so little developed that they don't have even a reasonable claim to personhood. The exceptions are almost exclusively already dead, massively deformed, or pose a significant risk to the life or health of the mother.

EDIT: Actually, the use of the legal term "homicide" is inappropriate anyway. Even to the extent Nulono or others might wish to argue things like the unborn are persons at conception ethically, they are not legally persons.

[The Black Forrest]

Dude, I don't know anyone who supports violence against abortionists.

It would only be people who truly believe the rhetoric being spouted.

Indeed.

[Nulono]

What species is the fetus, a chicken? No. Any biologist will class the fetus as H. sapiens sapiens.

This is silly on both sides.

Homicide is the killing of one person by another.

If an unborn is a person, abortion is clearly homicide. That doesn't make it right or wrong. It just makes it homicide.

Of course, that is a ridiculously huge "if". 90% of abortions are obtained within the first 12 weeks of gestation, with 62% within the first 8 weeks of gestation. Only 5% of abortions are obtained at 16 or more weeks gestation. Etc, etc. In sum, the objects of abortion are usually so little developed that they don't have even a reasonable claim to personhood. The exceptions are almost exclusively already dead, massively deformed, or pose a significant risk to the life or health of the mother.

EDIT: Actually, the use of the legal term "homicide" is inappropriate anyway. Even to the extent Nulono or others might wish to argue things like the unborn are persons at conception ethically, they are not legally persons.

No, homicide is the killing of one human being by another. And since when do deformities make you subhuman?

Edit: I was not using "homicide" in the legal sense.

It would only be people who truly believe the rhetoric being spouted.

Indeed.

Right, never heard that one before. "You're wrong because you don't believe what you say because you don't fit my stereotypes."

I just love how if we support violence we're dangerous nutbags who shouldn't be taken seriously, and if we don't we're hypocrites who don't believe what we say and shouldn't be taken seriously. Anything to avoid actually considering our points, 'eh?

[The Cat-Tribe]

This is silly on both sides.

Homicide is the killing of one person by another.

If an unborn is a person, abortion is clearly homicide. That doesn't make it right or wrong. It just makes it homicide.

Of course, that is a ridiculously huge "if". 90% of abortions are obtained within the first 12 weeks of gestation, with 62% within the first 8 weeks of gestation. Only 5% of abortions are obtained at 16 or more weeks gestation. Etc, etc. In sum, the objects of abortion are usually so little developed that they don't have even a reasonable claim to personhood. The exceptions are almost exclusively already dead, massively deformed, or pose a significant risk to the life or health of the mother.

EDIT: Actually, the use of the legal term "homicide" is inappropriate anyway. Even to the extent Nulono or others might wish to argue things like the unborn are persons at conception ethically, they are not legally persons.

No, homicide is the killing of one human being by another. And since when do deformities make you subhuman?

Edit: I was not using "homicide" in the legal sense.

Indeed.

Right, never heard that one before. "You're wrong because you don't believe what you say because you don't fit my stereotypes."

I just love how if we support violence we're dangerous nutbags who shouldn't be taken seriously, and if we don't we're hypocrites who don't believe what we say and shouldn't be taken seriously. Anything to avoid actually considering our points, 'eh?

Homicide is a legal term. And I'm using Black's Law Dictionary to define it. ("homicide" n. (14c.) Black's Law Dictionary 802 (9th Ed. 2009), to be precise.)

[Nulono]

No, homicide is the killing of one human being by another. And since when do deformities make you subhuman?

Edit: I was not using "homicide" in the legal sense.

Right, never heard that one before. "You're wrong because you don't believe what you say because you don't fit my stereotypes."

I just love how if we support violence we're dangerous nutbags who shouldn't be taken seriously, and if we don't we're hypocrites who don't believe what we say and shouldn't be taken seriously. Anything to avoid actually considering our points, 'eh?

Homicide is a legal term. And I'm using Black's Law Dictionary to define it. ("homicide" n. (14c.) Black's Law Dictionary 802 (9th Ed. 2009), to be precise.)

This may surprise you, but the word has meaning outside law. I was not using its legal meaning, just as I was not using "person"'s legal meaning.

[The Cat-Tribe]

Homicide is a legal term. And I'm using Black's Law Dictionary to define it. ("homicide" n. (14c.) Black's Law Dictionary 802 (9th Ed. 2009), to be precise.)

This may surprise you, but the word has meaning outside law. I was not using its legal meaning, just as I was not using "person"'s legal meaning.

This may surprise you, but, if you are going to rely on the technical, legal difference between "homicide" and "murder," then you are going to look damn foolish when you insist you aren't using the legal meaning of "homicide."

Regardless, you have set this thread even further at sea from the topic. I doubt we shall ever see the "land" of the topic again.

[Nulono]

This may surprise you, but the word has meaning outside law. I was not using its legal meaning, just as I was not using "person"'s legal meaning.

This may surprise you, but, if you are going to rely on the technical, legal difference between "homicide" and "murder," then you are going to look damn foolish when you insist you aren't using the legal meaning of "homicide."

Regardless, you have set this thread even further at sea from the topic. I doubt we shall ever see the "land" of the topic again.

unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being

the killing of a human being by another human being

This is all I was saying.

[The Cat-Tribe]

This may surprise you, but, if you are going to rely on the technical, legal difference between "homicide" and "murder," then you are going to look damn foolish when you insist you aren't using the legal meaning of "homicide."

Regardless, you have set this thread even further at sea from the topic. I doubt we shall ever see the "land" of the topic again.

unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being

the killing of a human being by another human being

This is all I was saying.

What is your source for those definitions?

[Hydesland]

What is your source for those definitions?

I just googled them and they both come from Princeton.

[Geniasis]

Right, never heard that one before. "You're wrong because you don't believe what you say because you don't fit my stereotypes."

I just love how if we support violence we're dangerous nutbags who shouldn't be taken seriously, and if we don't we're hypocrites who don't believe what we say and shouldn't be taken seriously. Anything to avoid actually considering our points, 'eh?

But aren't you a hypocrite? I mean, if you truly believed that innocent children were being killed in droves, then wouldn't you find yourself morally compelled to do something to stop it?

The very fact that you are not is proof enough to me that you don't take your own claims very seriously. That, or you are simply a coward.

[Nulono]

Right, never heard that one before. "You're wrong because you don't believe what you say because you don't fit my stereotypes."

I just love how if we support violence we're dangerous nutbags who shouldn't be taken seriously, and if we don't we're hypocrites who don't believe what we say and shouldn't be taken seriously. Anything to avoid actually considering our points, 'eh?

But aren't you a hypocrite? I mean, if you truly believed that innocent children were being killed in droves, then wouldn't you find yourself morally compelled to do something to stop it?

The very fact that you are not is proof enough to me that you don't take your own claims very seriously. That, or you are simply a coward.

While I am a coward, that's not why I don't promote violence.

[Geniasis]

While I am a coward, that's not why I don't promote violence.

Of course not, it's because you're a hypocrite.

[Nulono]

While I am a coward, that's not why I don't promote violence.

Of course not, it's because you're a hypocrite.

No, it's because I'm a pacifist.

[Nobel Hobos]

Of course not, it's because you're a hypocrite.

No, it's because I'm a pacifist.

Works for me.

It's an ad hominem to try to defeat a poster's argument by saying that they're not doing enough to carry out the consequences of it.
And if Geniasis is suggesting that you should break the law, then Geniasis is in violation of NS rules.

EDIT: It would be nice to get back to the subject though.

[Geniasis]

No, it's because I'm a pacifist.

Works for me.

It's an ad hominem to try to defeat a poster's argument by saying that they're not doing enough to carry out the consequences of it.
And if Geniasis is suggesting that you should break the law, then Geniasis is in violation of NS rules.

EDIT: It would be nice to get back to the subject though.

Not at all, actually. I'm merely pointing out the vast disconnect between the way the situation is described and the extreme actions that such a worldview would demand by its nature. That the reality doesn't match up is the point I'm trying to drive home.

[Nulono]

Works for me.

It's an ad hominem to try to defeat a poster's argument by saying that they're not doing enough to carry out the consequences of it.
And if Geniasis is suggesting that you should break the law, then Geniasis is in violation of NS rules.

EDIT: It would be nice to get back to the subject though.

Not at all, actually. I'm merely pointing out the vast disconnect between the way the situation is described and the extreme actions that such a worldview would demand by its nature. That the reality doesn't match up is the point I'm trying to drive home.

My worldview is pacifism. It demands non-violence.

But even if I were a hypocrite, you would still not have proven that abortion is not immoral.

[Geniasis]

My worldview is pacifism. It demands non-violence.

But even if I were a hypocrite, you would still not have proven that abortion is not immoral.

Nor have you proven that it is.

[Nulono]

My worldview is pacifism. It demands non-violence.

But even if I were a hypocrite, you would still not have proven that abortion is not immoral.

Nor have you proven that it is.

Then perhaps we should refrain from the personal attacks and get to the issue at hand.

[Geniasis]

Then perhaps we should refrain from the personal attacks and get to the issue at hand.

Whenever you're ready to prove that a fetus is a person, go ahead.

[Teotan]

LOL HYPOCRISY

[Nulono]

Then perhaps we should refrain from the personal attacks and get to the issue at hand.

Whenever you're ready to prove that a fetus is a person, go ahead.

Why isn't a fetus a person?

[Teotan]

Whenever you're ready to prove that a fetus is a person, go ahead.

Why isn't a fetus a person?

I dunno. Prove it.

[Nulono]

Why isn't a fetus a person?

I dunno. Prove it.

Prove what?