God and Satan

[Harata]

I'm sorry that you arrived at that opinion. I believe that Christianity, in addition to being the most correct religion, has had a very positive impact on Western civilization as a whole.

Most correct religion? That's extremely subjective and ignorant.

From a purely rational perspective, yes. However, faith requires something else, the "leap to faith" that Soren Kierkegaard talked about. Purely rational thought is not enough, though if you open yourself up to faith I believe that you can find the truth, or the best truth that humans can understand.

[Harata]

What do you mean by conflicting? Jesus' teachings conflicted with some earlier teachings but that's because they were meant to replace them. Not sure if that's what you meant, though.

Meaning that, if you take the Bible from beginning to end, Old Testament and New, there is conflicting material. The first example I can think of is the eye for an eye vs. turn the other cheek excerpts.

Yeah, Jesus said turn the other cheek versus turn the other cheek from earlier teachings. In fact, he pointed out this difference. His teachings represented the grace that he brought, as a change from the old ways. And I know that the Gospels, for instance, have some minor inconsistencies. That's why I believe that the authors were inspired by God to write what they did, but wrote the words themselves. After all, the main message is the same in all the Gospels, with the differences being ultimately inconsequential.

[Jahada]

Most correct religion? That's extremely subjective and ignorant.

From a purely rational perspective, yes. However, faith requires something else, the "leap to faith" that Soren Kierkegaard talked about. Purely rational thought is not enough, though if you open yourself up to faith I believe that you can find the truth, or the best truth that humans can understand.

That's one of the things I really just don't buy. Religion has to rely on rationality. Otherwise it's worthless.

[Harata]

From a purely rational perspective, yes. However, faith requires something else, the "leap to faith" that Soren Kierkegaard talked about. Purely rational thought is not enough, though if you open yourself up to faith I believe that you can find the truth, or the best truth that humans can understand.

That's one of the things I really just don't buy. Religion has to rely on rationality. Otherwise it's worthless.

Rationality has a part in religion, but I don't think rationality on its own is enough. But rationality combined with faith leads to truth.

[Jahada]

Meaning that, if you take the Bible from beginning to end, Old Testament and New, there is conflicting material. The first example I can think of is the eye for an eye vs. turn the other cheek excerpts.

Yeah, Jesus said turn the other cheek versus turn the other cheek from earlier teachings. In fact, he pointed out this difference. His teachings represented the grace that he brought, as a change from the old ways. And I know that the Gospels, for instance, have some minor inconsistencies. That's why I believe that the authors were inspired by God to write what they did, but wrote the words themselves. After all, the main message is the same in all the Gospels, with the differences being ultimately inconsequential.

In other words, Christianity says the almighty, eternal God changed his mind.

[South East Europe]

Um... still. Not seeing validation to your point.

Science is the study of all things empirical, until god and his workings can be examined Science can neither approve nor disprove the existance of god, regardless of the belief of the scientist.

The study of things we cannot study empirically falls under philosophy.

The Theory of Evolution has evidence and Intelligent Design has absolutely no evidence.

[Atomosea]

If God let anyone into Heaven regardless of their conduct just because they believed in Jesus, Heaven would be as bad as Hell! The forgiveness is what Purgatory is for. If you're too bad for Heaven, you get sent to Hell, then if you realize your mistakes, you can be sent to Purgatory, where you spend some more time repenting, the length of time depending on how bad your sins were, then, at the end of your stay, you're cleansed of your sins and let into Heaven. Jesus and God are forgiving, but they know when to crack down. How else do you run an entire universe (or entire universes) for so long?

Everyone is given the means to find salvation in heaven. As Luke (15:7) said "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

“It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27). Which means there is no second chances after the judgement is made.

It denies the truth of salvation through Christ which means that a person decides to either trust in Christ or else he/she rejects Christ and goes to hell (John 3:16;3:36). Which means repenting in hell won't get you anywhere, you either accept Jesus or to hell you go. Purgatory is for those who have not had the fortune to know about Jesus and hence were not capable of accepting nor denying him.

Isn't that what the Circle of the Virtuous Unbaptized is for? And either way, everyone and their dog has interpreted the Bible differently, so my interpretations of the afterlife might be a little unorthodox... And doesn't being punished in Hell for eternity contradict your "instantly forgiving" God theory?

[South East Europe]

That's one of the things I really just don't buy. Religion has to rely on rationality. Otherwise it's worthless.

Rationality has a part in religion, but I don't think rationality on its own is enough. But rationality combined with faith leads to truth.

Rationality + Belief = Truth? That makes absolutely no sense. In order for something to be Truth, it must be 100% proven. A belief in a God can never be proven.

[Jahada]

Science is the study of all things empirical, until god and his workings can be examined Science can neither approve nor disprove the existance of god, regardless of the belief of the scientist.

The study of things we cannot study empirically falls under philosophy.

The Theory of Evolution has evidence and Intelligent Design has absolutely no evidence.

I happen to believe in evolution 100%. it doesn't seem to conflict with my religion.

[Harata]

Yeah, Jesus said turn the other cheek versus turn the other cheek from earlier teachings. In fact, he pointed out this difference. His teachings represented the grace that he brought, as a change from the old ways. And I know that the Gospels, for instance, have some minor inconsistencies. That's why I believe that the authors were inspired by God to write what they did, but wrote the words themselves. After all, the main message is the same in all the Gospels, with the differences being ultimately inconsequential.

In other words, Christianity says the almighty, eternal God changed his mind.

I believe that it was a matter of different teachings for different times. After all, imagine if God sent the US constitution back to those times and told all people to abide by it. Even from God, I don't know how that would have gone over with the people of the time! Same thing with these teachings.

[Atomosea]

Yeah, Jesus said turn the other cheek versus turn the other cheek from earlier teachings. In fact, he pointed out this difference. His teachings represented the grace that he brought, as a change from the old ways. And I know that the Gospels, for instance, have some minor inconsistencies. That's why I believe that the authors were inspired by God to write what they did, but wrote the words themselves. After all, the main message is the same in all the Gospels, with the differences being ultimately inconsequential.

In other words, Christianity says the almighty, eternal God changed his mind.

Can't a sentient, sapient being change it's mind?

[Harata]

The Theory of Evolution has evidence and Intelligent Design has absolutely no evidence.

I happen to believe in evolution 100%. it doesn't seem to conflict with my religion.

My old pastor believed in evolution. It was kinda funny seeing a pastor give a bible study about how evolution is perfectly compatible with the bible (and some of the people's reactions) but I also believe in evolution, and he made good points.

[Grainne Ni Malley]

Um... still. Not seeing validation to your point.

Science is the study of all things empirical, until god and his workings can be examined Science can neither approve nor disprove the existance of god, regardless of the belief of the scientist.

The study of things we cannot study empirically falls under philosophy.

Cannot study or have not found a means to study yet? Just because science has not found a method of study thus far does not mean it couldn't happen down the road. Think of the evolution of science over the centuries. "The world is flat, 'nuff said", "You mean something invisible makes things fall to the ground? bahaha!", "Vaccinations, wtf? Are you crazy?"

One day Earthlings might land on a planet and some guy named "God" could walk out and be like, "Oh yeah! I remember you. Thought I'd lost ya! How's that whacky platypus doing?" Just saying. I don't hold that particular belief, but it could happen. You never know.

[Harata]

Rationality has a part in religion, but I don't think rationality on its own is enough. But rationality combined with faith leads to truth.

Rationality + Belief = Truth? That makes absolutely no sense. In order for something to be Truth, it must be 100% proven. A belief in a God can never be proven.

That's why it's called a belief .

[Michilimakinak]

Being a religious rationalist, Satan is all together a confusing puzzle that governs evil. If all, he tries to do that to be more evil than he seems. Insanity causes more vileness than hate. He does not try to smite God or do battle with humanity unless he thinks he's going to win.

Religious rationalist is an oxymoron.

Gee, thanks.

[South East Europe]

Rationality + Belief = Truth? That makes absolutely no sense. In order for something to be Truth, it must be 100% proven. A belief in a God can never be proven.

That's why it's called a belief .

You just said if you combine rationality and faith you have truth but faith is not and never will be truth.

[South East Europe]

Religious rationalist is an oxymoron.

Gee, thanks.

Excuse me for stating a fact.

[Jahada]

Naturally a God wouldn't change His mind because God does not change. He lays down the law and people obey it. This is just one of the many logical flaws with Christianity. If God was going to "kill" Himself, only to rise from the "dead" to save humanity from the sins that He was going to punish them for in the first place, why couldn't he have just done it earlier? Were all the prophets before Jesus wasted??? Is all their work null and void??? Come on.

[Grainne Ni Malley]

That's why it's called a belief .

You just said if you combine rationality and faith you have truth but faith is not and never will be truth.

Faith is truth to those that have it.

[Jahada]

Gee, thanks.

Excuse me for stating a fact.

I'm religious. I'm a rationalist.

It's obviously not a fact.

[Harata]

That's why it's called a belief .

You just said if you combine rationality and faith you have truth but faith is not and never will be truth.

I'm saying that when you have both the ability for rational thought and the ability to accept that God exists despite the fact that it cannot be 100%, objectively, empirically proven, you open your mind for receiving truth. After all, someone who can be rational but is close-minded cannot accept truth, and someone who will believe anything shoved in front of them cannot accept truth either.

[South East Europe]

You just said if you combine rationality and faith you have truth but faith is not and never will be truth.

Faith is truth to those that have it.

A belief cannot be truth, unless you reject the definition of truth and give truth a completely ludicrous definition.

[South East Europe]

You just said if you combine rationality and faith you have truth but faith is not and never will be truth.

I'm saying that when you have both the ability for rational thought and the ability to accept that God exists despite the fact that it cannot be 100%, objectively, empirically proven, you open your mind for receiving truth. After all, someone who can be rational but is close-minded cannot accept truth, and someone who will believe anything shoved in front of them cannot accept truth either.

So, I'm closed minded because I don't believe that God exists? Truth is based on facts, sorry.

[South East Europe]

Excuse me for stating a fact.

I'm religious. I'm a rationalist.

It's obviously not a fact.

you could say this millions of times, religion and rationalism are incompatible because religion is irrational.

[Michilimakinak]

Gee, thanks.

Excuse me for stating a fact.

Excuse me for remaining skeptical of your assertion until you back it up with actual indisputable facts.