God and Satan

[Ashmoria]

its theology. its not supposed to make literal sense

Are you sure that theology isn't supposed to make sense? I always thought that it was supposed to make sense, but that it simply failed at it.

it a kind of allegory.

[Sane Outcasts]

its theology. its not supposed to make literal sense

Are you sure that theology isn't supposed to make sense? I always thought that it was supposed to make sense, but that it simply failed at it.

If everything theological made sense to a layman, priests would be out of a job.

[Free Soviets]

No. Satan has no power -- he can merely tempt.
At least, that's the case in Islam ^-^

does he have to travel by normal means? how does he afford it?

[Free Soviets]

@ Free Soviets: if we were to acknowledge Satan as some sort of deity below the Abrahamic God, we'd be throwing monotheism out the window and defeating the central tenet of those religions.

well, within a religion one is allowed to believe any sort of contradictory stuff that is part of the authoritative tradition. but from an objective, cross-cultural standpoint, there are obviously at least 5 gods in the official christian tradition, with many many more plausibly includable but mainly forgotten about in the modern era.

[Jahada]

It would be nice if you are right, but honestly I doubt it. Honestly, the descriptions of Allah compared with the Christian descriptions of God are often so different that's it's pretty much impossible to believe that they're the same God. Personally, I wish everyone could go to Heaven, since I don't like the idea of people suffering for all eternity, but if that was the case then what would be the point of faith at all? Just a fun thing to do to pass the time on earth?

I happen to be a Muslim, and Allah is the same thing as YHWH and God the Father, whether anyone likes it or not. The reason for the different attributes is the different time period that Muhammad lived in. Jesus didn't have to defend himself from pagans making war on him and his followers. Muhammad did. That's why the Quran is so different from the Bible, because unlike the Bible, it's not a book of stories, it's a dialogue of God mostly telling Muhammad what to do, given the violent circumstances that confronted him. You can't possibly understand the Quran without knowing the history behind it.

Btw, in case you didn't know, Muslims believe in Jesus, but as simply a prophet who confirmed the teachings of the prophets who came before him.

Oh, and as far as the even-non-Christians-go-to-heaven thing, that's obviously just a sugarcoating. The Bible says over and over that those who accept Jesus' divinity go to heaven and those who do not, go to hell.

Another strange proposition of Christian religion, how does sending an innocent person to suffer and die allow god to forgive us in a way that he couldn't have done prior to the aforementioned sacrifice? How is mankind redeemed by the death of an innocent person? How does that even begin to make sense? If god wants to forgive us, why can't he just snap his fingers and forgive us? What's with the pointless gesture of killing himself in corporeal form?

Finally someone said this. Thank you!

its theology. its not supposed to make literal sense

Like I said before, just because Christianity doesn't make sense, doesn't mean all religion/theology doesn't make sense.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Jahada:
I happen to be a Muslim, and Allah is the same thing as YHWH and God the Father, whether anyone likes it or not.

Nope. God is a subjective social construct, and if a beleiver wants to treat them as different, then as far as he/she is concerned - they are different.

For instance - many Christians subjectly beleive that the father, and the son are one. But a Muslim would insist that Jesus/Eesaa and Allah are not the same.

Whether Muslims think that is a corruption of monotheism is irrelevant.

Like I said before, just because Christianity doesn't make sense, doesn't mean all religion/theology doesn't make sense.

Did Suleiman talk to ants? Did Moosaas stick turn into a snake?

No prophets for the ancient Chinese?

[The Murtunian Tribes]

but if that was the case then what would be the point of faith at all?

I have a hard time grasping what the point of faith is regardless of the metaphysics of the afterlife. Why is god's sole concern whether or not we believe in him in the absence of any evidence? He doesn't care about goodness. He doesn't care about accomplishments. He doesn't care about how many lives you change for the better. All he cares about is whether or not you accept a certain set of propositions in the complete absence of evidence. Furthermore, you must also guess the correct set of propositions to believe in without evidence. And yes, with no evidence at all, it is very much just a guess. Islam is a guess. Christianity is a guess. If you choose the wrong set of propositions to believe in, you're fucked. Oops, sorry, Zoroastrianism was the incorrect guess, you go to hell. There's nothing in any of this that presents a reliable test of how much someone deserves heaven and hell, and thus nothing in this that can be even remotely referred to as "justice."

Well, the simple answer to that (assuming, of course, there actually is a God) is that that isn't how it works. God Himself probably doesn't care about little things like that, He's too old and rich for it. More than likely such a thing would have been perpetrated by the various religions of the world to secure their own power.

[Risottia]

If satan was enemies with God, wouldn't he want to spite him by instead of punishing people in hell, he makes it better then heaven? I mean if god wants them to be punished, Satan would want opposite in theory, right?

BTW I don't believe in any of this shit

That's why Satan doesn't rule hell, he is a prisoner as he is bound in chains and burned in the furnace along with every other sinner

Well, the Bible would suggest otherwise. Satan walks around free and goes to visit God and plays games with him using humans as pawns. See the Book of Job.

[Dypsomaniacs]

If Satan, who, as I understand, rules, create, and controls all that is evil and is said to be worshiped by various heathen groups and witches, doesn't that make him, more or less, a god himself?

First of all I have to assume that you are referencing christianity...
Another assumption it seems safe to make is that you have an extremely limited knowledge about christianity...

What is very important to understand is that the english translations of the bible are very inaccurate.
The word satan actually refers to an adversary - Not necessarily a single entity...
Devil which comes from the word diabolos is actually an adjective that means false accuser...

Abbadon is the Hebrew name of the angel-prince of what is called hell - This is the biblical minister of death and the creator of havoc on Earth...

Lucifer, from the Hebrew Heylel, meaning "light bearer" is the king of Babylon ( confusion ) and satan ( the adversaries of YHWH )...

[New Manvir]

No

It is myth that Satan rules Hell, god banished him to hell to suffer along with everyone else.

"God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into chains of darkness to be held for judgment."
2 Peter 2:4

So, Hell is like a giant Supermax Prison and Satan is like one of those mob bosses that gets sent to prison, but still lives like a king because of his connections on the outside?

[Nightkill the Emperor]

No

It is myth that Satan rules Hell, god banished him to hell to suffer along with everyone else.

"God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into chains of darkness to be held for judgment."
2 Peter 2:4

So, Hell is like a giant Supermax Prison and Satan is like one of those mob bosses that gets sent to prison, but still lives like a king because of his connections on the outside?

Fix the problem, Batman.

[Dypsomaniacs]

And how do you know what to have faith in? By its very nature, faith is based in the lack of knowledge. Thus, it's an unreliable way to get at truth, because there are an infinite number of things you could have faith in, but the overwhelming majority will be false. Faith only leads to truth if you start out with faith in the correct thing to begin with. Thus, it only "leads" you to truth if you're already there from the start.

For those willing to seek out the truth about anything it is abundantly clear what they should place their faith in...
Faith, in the biblical sense, is based on truth.
Because christianity is based on a book full of lies it is understandable why one could be so confused.
Faith, in the biblical sense, is not a method for finding or understanding the truth.
Faith, in the biblical sense, is belief in truth and honesty.
Too many christians have come to believe that faith can somehow make their lies become truths - which is absolutely absurd...
Faith in a lie is not faith - that is nothing more than ignorance of the truth...
The bible makes it very clear that those seeking righteousness are not to have "blind faith" - but are to seek the truth and have faith in that truth...

[New Manvir]

So, Hell is like a giant Supermax Prison and Satan is like one of those mob bosses that gets sent to prison, but still lives like a king because of his connections on the outside?

Fix the problem, Batman.

Go to heaven and beat up corrupt angels?

[The Imperial Navy]

All I can say is that if hell is real, then God is a sadistic fucktard and I'd rather burn there than bow before him.

And if it isn't, then I've lost nothing. But personally, I think hell is a creation of that old phrase "Believe what I say, or I'll hurt you."

I view religion as a choice and I'll accept it if you choose it, but to me it is a form of Tyranny.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Fix the problem, Batman.

Go to heaven and beat up corrupt angels?

Beat up God himself. You know you can do it.

[New Manvir]

Go to heaven and beat up corrupt angels?

Beat up God himself. You know you can do it.

Indeed, I could.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Beat up God himself. You know you can do it.

Indeed, I could.

[Demen]

Yes.



And doesn't God, with all his power, Cause all death and destruction? Doesn't it beg the question "Who is the real devil?"

[Dypsomaniacs]

Yes.



And doesn't God, with all his power, Cause all death and destruction? Doesn't it beg the question "Who is the real devil?"

Death and destruction ???
To some it may appear that what you call "death and destruction" is nurturing and healing.
When a person is sick it is necessary to give them medicine to make them well...

Basically, from a biblical perspective, mankind is the creator of all their own problems. And problems are nothing more than a matter of perspective. To some a paper cut is torture - to another it may go completely unnoticed.

[UCUMAY]

That Satan is jealous of human and hates us.

[Neo Rom]

All I can say is that if hell is real, then God is a sadistic fucktard and I'd rather burn there than bow before him.

And if it isn't, then I've lost nothing. But personally, I think hell is a creation of that old phrase "Believe what I say, or I'll hurt you."

I view religion as a choice and I'll accept it if you choose it, but to me it is a form of Tyranny.

You are right religion is a choice But as i view it God is love... and the source of it. He wants us to choose so greatly that even He is subject to our wills. If we ultimately want to stay away from the absense of love then that is hell. He doesn' damn us, we damn ourselves

[Unhealthy2]

You are right religion is a choice But as i view it God is love... and the source of it. He wants us to choose so greatly that even He is subject to our wills. If we ultimately want to stay away from the absense of love then that is hell. He doesn' damn us, we damn ourselves

Failing to be convinced that a god exists is not the same as rejecting god's offer. Also, hell is a bit more than god's absence.

[Nattakun]

I believe that both God and Satan exist. I also believe what the Holy Bible says about both.
Below is taken from a Christian website, it elaborates on Satan.

Thought I'd post it to clear up the Biblical misconceptions.
I'm not saying anyone is wrong, just clearing up the record so the Holy Bible's position is clear...

What the Bible says about the Devil and Satan
Human salvation depends upon the life, work and teaching of Jesus Christ. We cannot understand this work unless we understand what the Bible means when the terms devil and satan are used, for the apostle John said,

"For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil" (1 John 3:8).

Paul said that Jesus possessed human nature in order "that through death he might destroy him that hath the power of death, that is, the devil" (Hebrews 2:14).

The Devil

The original Greek word translated devil is diabolos and its meaning is slanderer or false accuser. It is a compound word, dia which means "through" and ballo meaning "to strike or cast" and its literal meaning is "to strike through". In the New Testament it has been translated in some places as "slanderer" (1 Timothy 3:11) but on most occasions the translators transferred it into the script in an anglicised form of their own devising - as devil. Yet in Titus 2:3 they saw fit to translate it as "false accusers" e.g. "the aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers" (i.e. diabolos). If they had adhered to this rule all the way through the New Testament, much confusion and wrong ideas would have been avoided as the word itself has no connotation to suggest an immortal evil being constantly tempting mankind. Consider the two quotations which follow which form an equation thus-

"through death Christ destroyed him that had the power of death, that is the devil " (Hebrews 2:14)

and

"the sting (or power) of death is sin." (1 Corinthians 15:56)

Therefore the devil = sin, and was destroyed by Christ's death as Hebrews 2:14 says. The devil is a personification of sin in human flesh. This was what Christ destroyed - how? by voluntarily submitting to death and publicly demonstrating that human flesh was fit only for death as it was a false accuser of God. Also, by living a perfectly sinless life and suppressing every impulse to sin, though "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4:15), he declared God just in condemning sinful man to death. This explanation of the word devil as "sin in the flesh" agrees with all passages of scripture where the word occurs. Sometimes scripture uses the term to describe the devil (i.e. Sin) within a human being and sometimes, the devil (i.e. Sin) without, in the form of governments as in 1 Peter 5:8 which reads, "the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" - referring here to the Roman power which persecuted the early Christians. In John 6:70 Christ, speaking of Judas, said, "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?" It was Judas who falsely accused Christ to the rulers of the Jews. Sin and death are related as cause and effect. If Christ came "to destroy him that had the power of death" then he came to take away sin. "Behold the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world." (John 1:29). Also Hebrews 9:26.

Sin brings death

"By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin" (Romans 5:12). Adam's disobedience to God's law brought upon him and on all his progeny (for like can only produce like) the punishment God had declared, "In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". Adam, in believing the serpent rather than God, falsely accused God of lying - so the false accuser (DEVIL) or SIN brought condemnation and death to man. In contrast to Adam, Christ, by perfect obedience to all God's laws, "brought life and immortality to light" and destroyed the false accuser.

Satan

The word Satan, like the word devil, has not been translated. It was originally a Hebrew word, was then adopted into the Greek language and finally transferred to the English translation of both Old and New Testaments. Had the word been translated, it would correctly have been rendered "adversary" for this is its only meaning. Indeed there are places in the Old Testament where it has been so translated - e.g. 1 Kings 11:14 which reads, "the Lord stirred up an adversary (Hebrew Satan) unto Solomon." Nowhere in the Old Testament is the word associated with a fallen angel or any kind of supernatural agency. If, wherever the word occurs, the reader would translate it for himself as adversary, all difficulty is removed, passages become clear and comprehensible and he will be correctly dealing with the Hebrew language. This applies to both Old and New Testaments. When Jesus warned his disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and there be put to death, Peter exclaimed, "Be it far from thee, Lord". But Jesus replied, "Get thee behind me, Satan (i.e. adversary): thou art an offence unto me." (Matthew 16:21-23). Notice it was Peter himself who was acting as an adversary, standing in Christ's way, and preventing him from fulfilling God's purpose. In seeking to understand Bible teaching it is always helpful to look, with the aid of a good concordance, at the actual meaning of the Hebrew or Greek words in question, which have often, as we have seen in the case of devil and satan, due to faulty translation, been the cause of misunderstanding God's revelation.

[Wilgrove]

If Satan, who, as I understand, rules, create, and controls all that is evil and is said to be worshiped by various heathen groups and witches, doesn't that make him, more or less, a god himself?

Merriam-Webster's Definition of god-
"a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality "

Wow....ok, well I think you should actually learn what Heathens and Witches actually worship rather than what you've learned from your Pastor when he was playing with you in his rectory.

Wicca for Beginners
Paganism: Introduction to Earth Centered Religions

Those are two good books that should get you started. In the future, please educate yourself before you come here and spout off insultingly ignorant ideas.

[Neo Rom]

You are right religion is a choice But as i view it God is love... and the source of it. He wants us to choose so greatly that even He is subject to our wills. If we ultimately want to stay away from the absense of love then that is hell. He doesn' damn us, we damn ourselves

Failing to be convinced that a god exists is not the same as rejecting god's offer. Also, hell is a bit more than god's absence.

That much is true there are many who re failed to be convinced until they are at the Divine throne for many reasons. Doesn't mean they'll end up in Hell because of it completely. I truly believe that many who didn't know or accept based on biased ideals of God, when they approach the Throne, are tested or allowed to witness His nature fully, so they can PROPERLY choose. Of course even with this, there are those who will STill decide that they don't want to be near love.

Hell is both the absense of God... as well as the dullness and emptiness of what it was that they choose instead of love. (by this I mean, porn, pride, anger, frustrations, addiction etc. An example... a person who is addicted to porn, or even watches porn a lot, though not addicted, and decides to chose it, instead of God, once he or she is in Hell will have it to watch over and over, either one tape, which can get boring to the individual... or perhaps goes to watch it, but is insecure as to if someone is about to walk in,... and is constantly and forever stopping it just ast it begins to play... only to take it out, and repeat the process. This goes for the extreme zealots of religion both organzied and non organized as well... not just your ordinary sinners outside the walls of the Kingdom of God on Earth).