Constantinople or Istanbul what do you call it?

[Eliasonia]

I call it Constantinople because...coming from a Greek family, you kind of have to...

I call it Istanbul. Because that's its name now. I also call "Burma" Myanmar ... because political disagreements are no reason to call names. A name is what the owner chooses, and it's just plain insulting to call it anything else.

I was friends with a girl from a Greek family (both parents born in Greece) when I was at university. She was hugely open-minded and tolerant on almost every subject, but outright racist about Italians. You couldn't mention anything more Italian than "spaghetti" without her going into a rant about "they stole our civilization and our gods and ... and ..."

Something called Greek School is to blame, I'm pretty sure. I didn't ask too many questions about that though.

Sounds like my cousin

[Blouman Empire]

It's nobody's business but the Turks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOG8emH4Ab8&feature=fvst

I'm sure someone has posted it already but I couldn't bother checking

[Blouman Empire]

I call it Istanbul. Because that's its name now. I also call "Burma" Myanmar ... because political disagreements are no reason to call names. A name is what the owner chooses, and it's just plain insulting to call it anything else.

I understand but disagree, why change it when it is known as something else in your language? We still call it Spain, when the Spanish call it Espana.

[Nobel Hobos]

Oops, didn't see you there. No offence OK, the butt of my joke was Catholics really ...

Hope I didn't just make it worse.

It's fine lol, I don't really care.

Yay

Does Greek School ring any bells with you? For this friend of mine it was an extra hour or so every day, after regular school, which her parents made her go to, mainly so she'd keep up her Greek language. Not such a bad idea, but she seemed to get some bizarre nationalistic indoctrination there too. And it was religious, but she only ever called it Greek School.

She went to a public school otherwise, so maybe it was a compromise between her parents so as not to send her to a religious school full time.

Haven't seen Anthea in ages ... hmm ... but she'll have kids now. Maybe not.

[Eliasonia]

It's fine lol, I don't really care.

Yay

Does Greek School ring any bells with you? For this friend of mine it was an extra hour or so every day, after regular school, which her parents made her go to, mainly so she'd keep up her Greek language. Not such a bad idea, but she seemed to get some bizarre nationalistic indoctrination there too. And it was religious, but she only ever called it Greek School.

She went to a public school otherwise, so maybe it was a compromise between her parents so as not to send her to a religious school full time.

Haven't seen Anthea in ages ... hmm ... but she'll have kids now. Maybe not.

My parents tried to make me go, same basic thing as what you described. The nationalistic indoctrination wasn't there, that's something that some of us seem to have. Needless to say, I hated it and ended up not showing up ever again. More of it is religion over language or culture though, part of the reason I hated it so much.

[Nobel Hobos]

I call it Istanbul. Because that's its name now. I also call "Burma" Myanmar ... because political disagreements are no reason to call names. A name is what the owner chooses, and it's just plain insulting to call it anything else.

I understand but disagree, why change it when it is known as something else in your language? We still call it Spain, when the Spanish call it Espana.

Um, I wrote what you replied to but it has Elia's name on it?

I can see the sense in keeping the traditional English version if the new one is really hard to pronounce (like the full name of the USSR). But calling that country España really wouldn't be a problem for me if the residents thought it mattered that much.

Perhaps it's more of an issue when the two names are not recognizable as versions of each other. Like Istanbul and Constantinople.

[Minotzia]

depends. If I'm debating a historical topic about Constantinople, I use Constantinople. If I'm talking about modern day Turkey's capital, I use Istanbul.

LOL no. Ankara is the capital of Turkey.

[Meowfoundland]

I call places what they are actually named. So I call it İstanbul.

Although if I'm talking about the Byzantines I call it Constantinople.

[Tsa-la-gi Nation]

That's nobody's business but the Turks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vankaSlfSr0

This is what I was looking for. Perfect response.

[Slavian Empire]

Constantinoupoli is Greek, Orthodox!!!

[Nobel Hobos]

Yay

Does Greek School ring any bells with you? For this friend of mine it was an extra hour or so every day, after regular school, which her parents made her go to, mainly so she'd keep up her Greek language. Not such a bad idea, but she seemed to get some bizarre nationalistic indoctrination there too. And it was religious, but she only ever called it Greek School.

She went to a public school otherwise, so maybe it was a compromise between her parents so as not to send her to a religious school full time.

Haven't seen Anthea in ages ... hmm ... but she'll have kids now. Maybe not.

My parents tried to make me go, same basic thing as what you described. The nationalistic indoctrination wasn't there, that's something that some of us seem to have. Needless to say, I hated it and ended up not showing up ever again. More of it is religion over language or culture though, part of the reason I hated it so much.

I was brought up mostly atheist, just a bit pantheist. I couldn't hack the Boy Scouts ... "a cross between the Church and the Army, and I'm NEVER GOING AGAIN" as I told my mother. If I remember correctly, there was a short silent prayer (called out by the Leader) and he asked us an "oath by God" once during the two hour session. It wasn't very religious, but too much for me ... I guess you could say I was allergic to the word God.

Me and a religious school would never have worked out. There were religious instruction classes in my primary and high school (public school, the instructors were church volunteers not teachers) and I thought I was being open-minded by trying them all ... but I couldn't have been very good at it because I got kicked out of every one and ended up playing chess in the Non-Religion room instead. (By year 10, we'd won the right to play Bridge but no other card games).

Well, I was just a kid and I was a pretty cheeky kid. If I thought I was smarter than a teacher I'd try to prove it ... but even through that bad attitude I could tell that there is a difference between "religious instruction" and all other kinds of education. I honestly believe it does not deserve to be called "teaching" nor take any time out of the school curriculum.

After school classes, well that's between the parent and their child. If the kid really can't stand it, a good parent will see how they're giving up their influence over the child by making them attend.

[Blouman Empire]

Well, I was just a kid and I was a pretty cheeky kid. If I thought I was smarter than a teacher I'd try to prove it ... but even through that bad attitude I could tell that there is a difference between "religious instruction" and all other kinds of education. I honestly believe it does not deserve to be called "teaching" nor take any time out of the school curriculum.

I did religious education in fact it was apart of getting my SACE (HSC), there was no indoctrination in fact what it was that we were taught about was different religions, their beliefs, their practices etc.

I see nothing wrong with learning about aspects of culture and different beliefs systems.

Would you also be against the Aboriginal stories that are told in Australian schools?

[Frenequesta]

I believe it's currently called "Istanbul" by most everyone nowadays.

[The Archregimancy]

Surely you understand that "Byzantine Empire" was just a historian's term- the people still called themselves "Roman".

Maybe in the West but in the East they did NOT!

Yes they did, Kal; sorry. Patriotic Greek-Australian though you are, I think you need to brush up on pre-modern Greek history.

In fact, as late as the Greek War of Independence in the 19th century, the Greeks were still referring to each other as 'Rhomaios' rather than 'Hellenes' as they were conceptually fighting for the restoration of the Byzantine Empire rather than a classical Hellenic Republic.

Constantine I of the modern Greek Kingdom was even referred to as 'Constantine XII' by some particularly ardent nationalists.

(Edit: now see that I'm not the only person to have made that point - apologies).



Anyway, on the topic of the OP....

I call it Istanbul in almost all casual speech, particularly when I'm actually in the city.

I call it Constantinople in two contexts, one modern, one historical.
The modern context is when I'm discussing matters pertaining to Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, Archbishop of Constantinople and New Rome - and first among equals of Orthodox Christian hierarchs. Also known in his native language as (emphasis added) Η Αυτού Θειοτάτη Παναγιότης ο Αρχιεπίσκοπος Κωνσταντινουπόλεως Νέας Ρώμης και Οικουμενικός Πατριάρχης Βαρθολομαίος Α'
The historical context is when I'm discussing matters pertaining to the capital of the Byzantine Empire.

I call it Byzantium when quoting a couple of W.B. Yeats' more famous poems.

[Georgism]

I call it New Rome.

[Geniasis]

It's nobody's business but the Turks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOG8emH4Ab8&feature=fvst

I'm sure someone has posted it already but I couldn't bother checking

No one had. And I was going to. And I made to page 6 and was so excited...

...you're an ass, Blouman.

[The Archregimancy]

It's part of our history and our Greek pride! Like Alexander The Great. He was one man and no one questions why we are so hungup about him and he was only man whilst this was an entire city. Plus, it is a religious place for us!

Technically, the Hagia Sophia is now a Mosque... Russia has far more Orthodox heritage centers. Serbia and other Balkan states as well.

No it isn't - it's a museum.

Ataturk secularised it shortly after the foundation of the Turkish Republic (muses about possibly posting a picture of himself outside or inside Haghia Sophia to prove the point, but eventually thinks better of it).

Also, there are still a considerable number of Orthodox Christian sites in Istanbul, and even if many of them are mosques or museums these days, given that the seat of the Ecumenical Patriarch remains in the Phanar district of Istanbul, I'd say that, for once - unusual though it may strike some of us - Kal was entirely correct, and the person trying to correct him was wrong.

In fact, it's not just a 'religious place' for Greeks, it's a 'religious place' for all Orthodox. It's hardly unique in being a significant location of religious sites where the majority of the population actually belong to a different religion.

[Tergnitz]

Constantinople - RomanEmpire4eva

[Blouman Empire]

It's nobody's business but the Turks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOG8emH4Ab8&feature=fvst

I'm sure someone has posted it already but I couldn't bother checking

No one had. And I was going to. And I made to page 6 and was so excited...

...you're an ass, Blouman.

It's how I roll.

[Sebytania]

Quite randomly, sometimes Konstantinopolis, sometimes Istanbul, sometimes Byzantion. Like I - in modern usage - refer to St Petersburg as Leningrad, Petrograd or it's current name.

In historical contexts, however, I use the names that were used at the time.

[Nobel Hobos]

Well, I was just a kid and I was a pretty cheeky kid. If I thought I was smarter than a teacher I'd try to prove it ... but even through that bad attitude I could tell that there is a difference between "religious instruction" and all other kinds of education. I honestly believe it does not deserve to be called "teaching" nor take any time out of the school curriculum.

I did religious education in fact it was apart of getting my SACE (HSC), there was no indoctrination in fact what it was that we were taught about was different religions, their beliefs, their practices etc.

I see nothing wrong with learning about aspects of culture and different beliefs systems.

Would you also be against the Aboriginal stories that are told in Australian schools?

If they're told as fact, or with some moral overtone of "you should believe this, because it will make you a better person" then yes.

But really, I don't know how they teach religion nowadays. I went to school from '69 to '81, and maybe my school wasn't even typical in that it allowed church volunteers (non-teachers) to take whole periods for "instruction".

A comparative religion course would have been better I think, though I did very much enjoy the free period I got in high school after being booted from each of the sectarian classes. I got to play chess against a boy one year ahead of me, who did me the rare favour of thrashing me.

Out of religion and its rejects is born ... chess club in the science labs.

[Blouman Empire]

Out of religion and its rejects is born ... chess club in the science labs.

Crap what does that say about me? Being in both the religion classes and playing chess at school either I was the weird kid or had the best of both worlds.

[Kalaspia-Shimarata]

I call it Istanbul. Because that's its name now. I also call "Burma" Myanmar ... because political disagreements are no reason to call names. A name is what the owner chooses, and it's just plain insulting to call it anything else.

I was friends with a girl from a Greek family (both parents born in Greece) when I was at university. She was hugely open-minded and tolerant on almost every subject, but outright racist about Italians. You couldn't mention anything more Italian than "spaghetti" without her going into a rant about "they stole our civilization and our gods and ... and ..."

Something called Greek School is to blame, I'm pretty sure. I didn't ask too many questions about that though.

Sounds like my cousin

Well, they do say there are 6 degrees of relation between everyone. Who knows? Maybe his/her friend is your cousin

[SaintB]

I demand a poll option that says: It's nobody's business but the Turks.

[Kalaspia-Shimarata]

I demand a poll option that says: It's nobody's business but the Turks.

Don't tell me how to run a thread! If you want that option, create your own thread and I'll get the mods to lock it Create which ever the hell options you want...