Your Favorite Empire

[North Suran]

Don't do it. I know where this is going.

Where do you think it's going? A rant on how the Mongolians have been misrepresented as brutish barbarians and murderers instead of the (Relatively) progressive, meritocratic, and secure government when the Kingdoms of Europe were plagued by bandits masquerading as knights, religious intolerance, and an entrenched aristocracy?

I reject the view of the Mongols as being wholly barbarous and backwards, but that's a huge difference from claiming that they were progressive - especially in relation to the Europeans. The only thing you could definitively claim was that they provided secure government, and that came at a fairly hefty price.

[Jakaragua]

Don't do it. I know where this is going.

Where do you think it's going? A rant on how the Mongolians have been misrepresented as brutish barbarians and murderers instead of the (Relatively) progressive, meritocratic, and secure government when the Kingdoms of Europe were plagued by bandits masquerading as knights, religious intolerance, and an entrenched aristocracy?

Well, the government system Genghis Khan left was simple but practical. It's just an hierarchy, with the warriors on the top, owning massive amount of wealth. The warriors were awarded with them by their performance in combat. The Khagan required each important army official and aristocrat to give their oldest son to the Khagan as hostages, so that no one would rebel against him.

[Kylesaurus]

Of course the Russian Empire with Peter the Terrible (he really wasn't that bad), and also... where's the Mongolian love? Genghis Khan kicked ass

[Light and life]

the british empire rules
did the greeks evan have a empire

[Cosmopoles]

The Imperium of Man.

[North Suran]

did the greeks evan have a empire

Macedon, much?

Of course the Russian Empire with Peter the Terrible (he really wasn't that bad),

Are you referring to Ivan the Terrible or Peter the Great?

[Terca-Lumireis]

I like the Spanish Empire because of all the gold mines and because it was the biggest and wealthiest of its time. I also like the French Empires because of how shortlived they were and the British because, come on, they were freakin' huge.

[Greater Tezdrian]

Manchukuo wasn't an empire.

It was. It's official name was the "Great Manchu Empire".

Ah, I was think of it's title up until 1945. Nvm then. Hail Emperor Yi!

[Maltropia]

did the greeks evan have a empire

Macedon, much?

Of course the Russian Empire with Peter the Terrible (he really wasn't that bad),

Are you referring to Ivan the Terrible or Peter the Great?

I assume the latter. Ivan the Awesome was the former's correct title, by the way.

[Light and life]

did the greeks evan have a empire

Macedon, much?

maceadoian empire not greek

[Abdju]

the british empire rules
did the greeks evan have a empire

Yea, there was this guy called Alex something-or-other who conquered a few towns here and there....

[Conserative Morality]

That whole torching of Baghdad, the center of learning and scholasticism? The destruction of what was at the time the worlds finest library? It was in the name of a progressive, secure government!

Talking about the Empire under Genghis, not Mongke.

[Mediterreania]

Macedon, much?

maceadoian empire not greek

The Greeks of the time considered Macedonians to be barbarians.

There is even a theory among Iranian students that Alexander was, in fact, a satrap who rebelled against the empire.

[Serrland]

That whole torching of Baghdad, the center of learning and scholasticism? The destruction of what was at the time the worlds finest library? It was in the name of a progressive, secure government!

Talking about the Empire under Genghis, not Mongke.

Ah, fair enough. The empire of Genghis was a far cry from what it became.

[Maltropia]

the british empire rules
did the greeks evan have a empire

Yea, there was this guy called Alex something-or-other who conquered a few towns here and there....

And named them all after himself.

[Conserative Morality]

Well, the government system Genghis Khan left was simple but practical. It's just an hierarchy, with the warriors on the top, owning massive amount of wealth. The warriors were awarded with them by their performance in combat. The Khagan required each important army official and aristocrat to give their oldest son to the Khagan as hostages, so that no one would rebel against him.

But Genghis adopted bureaucrats and professionals into a strict and centralized system, unlike many other rulers of the time. Did the warriors get rich from the numerous wars? Yes. However, they were not granted dominion over an area for their prowess on the battlefield, something that Europe was still trying to get over at the time. And the hostage system was very effective.

[Light and life]

that alex dude sounds a bit full of himself

[EnragedMaldivians]

Yea, there was this guy called Alex something-or-other who conquered a few towns here and there....

Even prior to that, the Athenians and Spartans clearly dabbled in empire. Pelopponesian wars much.

And named them all after himself.

He was blond.

[Conserative Morality]

Ah, fair enough. The empire of Genghis was a far cry from what it became.

Sadly. It started out without torture, centralized, efficient, meritocratic, and ended up just as (Though probably not more than) vicious as their subjects and neighbors, isolating themselves from the general population regardless of merits (Yuan Dynasty), and split into a number of separate and intolerant states.

[Merathaim]

For me, it's a tie between Rome and Sumer, but if I had to go with one, it would be Rome. They practically laid the groundwork for the modern western world. The very letters that we're typing up now are Latin letters, the very same that the Romans used over two thousand years ago.

Romanticism and many other other elements of western culture have their roots within Rome.

Sumer is what I think really started civilization as a whole, in general anyway. But I'd say that Rome was a more accomplished civilization by it's end.

[Maltropia]

And named them all after himself.

Even prior to that, the Athenians and Spartans clearly dabbled in empire. Pelopponesian wars much.

Less imperialism, more civic rivalry. They just wanted to beat the other, not show the rest of the world how great they were.

And named them all after himself.

He was blond.

Harsh.

[Conserative Morality]

I reject the view of the Mongols as being wholly barbarous and backwards, but that's a huge difference from claiming that they were progressive - especially in relation to the Europeans. The only thing you could definitively claim was that they provided secure government, and that came at a fairly hefty price.

Europeans at the time had no problem with torture. Genghis Khan forbid torture. Europeans at the time scorned trade and rewarded it's knightly class with dominion over land, regardless of actual ability to rule. Genghis Khan encouraged trade, kept the roads safe, and rewarded his warriors with plunder, but not power. Genghis Khan ran a meritocratic and expansive system all throughout his Empire.

Face it, Europe was not always at the top of the world.

[Merathaim]

Europeans at the time had no problem with torture. Genghis Khan forbid torture. Europeans at the time scorned trade and rewarded it's knightly class with dominion over land, regardless of actual ability to rule. Genghis Khan encouraged trade, kept the roads safe, and rewarded his warriors with plunder, but not power. Genghis Khan ran a meritocratic and expansive system all throughout his Empire.

Face it, Europe was not always at the top of the world.

Yes, prior to Rome the Europeans were basically just a bunch of half-naked white guys running around in the forest. Very tribal, and very savage (or the ones who survived were, anyway).

That savagery stayed with them for a long time too, even after they started forming nations and empires. Rome itself was pretty brutal.

[North Suran]

Face it, Europe was not always at the top of the world.

That's a given, but 13th century Europe wasn't exactly a hellhole.

Yes, prior to Rome the Europeans were basically just a bunch of half-naked white guys running around in the forest. Very tribal, and very savage (or the ones who survived were, anyway).

Sorry, but that's pure hogwash. The whole "Europeans as savages" line was peddled by the Romans to justify their conquest, on the basis that they were bringing civilisation to the uncivilised. Recent evidence indicates that the Gauls and the Celts, for example, were far more civilised and domesticated than Roman sources made them out to be.

That savagery stayed with them for a long time too, even after they started forming nations and empires. Rome itself was pretty brutal.

Savagery isn't inherently European.

[Mediterreania]

I reject the view of the Mongols as being wholly barbarous and backwards, but that's a huge difference from claiming that they were progressive - especially in relation to the Europeans. The only thing you could definitively claim was that they provided secure government, and that came at a fairly hefty price.

Europeans at the time had no problem with torture. Genghis Khan forbid torture. Europeans at the time scorned trade and rewarded it's knightly class with dominion over land, regardless of actual ability to rule. Genghis Khan encouraged trade, kept the roads safe, and rewarded his warriors with plunder, but not power. Genghis Khan ran a meritocratic and expansive system all throughout his Empire.

Face it, Europe was not always at the top of the world.

I say that the Achaemenids were just as good.

Cyrus the Great was greeted as a liberator in Mesopotamia, which a certain modern leader has failed at doing.