Your Favorite Empire

[Buffett and Colbert]

I'm aware of that. I like Europe for the most part. So I say that I'm fond of Europe. Do I like Belarus? No. But it's not particularly relevant since I SPECIFICALLY SAID I'M BEING BROAD. Don't argue for the sake of arguing.

I think that in a 'Favorite Empire' thread, one should list their favorite Empire, not their favorite general group of Empires. And I like arguing, thank you very much.

They are collectively known as the Islamic Empire, thanks.

[Vandengaarde]

Japanese Empire.

By far the most humble empire. They didn't even want to be one after the first Sino-Japanese war. The Manchurian Incident was not caused by the Japanese government and the war with America was caused by the Americans.

[Fedeledland]

Not particularly, especially compared with other societies.

As such, they were accorded rights and were not persecuted for their religious beliefs unlike most parts of Medieval Europe, but were not accorded full privileges such as those accorded to native Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... uslim_rule

Yes, they were more tolerant than the average society. But they were still very intolerant. And although they were not persecuted, they were forced to take Jizya tax similar to the Jewish tax in Europe, which was also applied to Zoroastrians, all forms of Christians and Buddhists. And they were more intolerant towards the other branch of Islam than the Christians between each other.

Discrimination against dhimmis was institutionalized in traditional Islamic societies.

[Vandengaarde]

Japanese Empire.

By far the most humble empire. They didn't even want to be one after the first Sino-Japanese war. The Manchurian Incident was not caused by the Japanese government and the war with America was caused by the Americans.

^What? Japan attacked us first.

Because of the failure of the United States, specifically Cordell Hull, to be rational in negotiations with the Japanese.

[Fedeledland]

Japanese Empire.

By far the most humble empire. They didn't even want to be one after the first Sino-Japanese war. The Manchurian Incident was not caused by the Japanese government and the war with America was caused by the Americans.

^What? Japan attacked us first.

Because the U.S blocked trade routes very needed by Japan.

[Vetalia]

Because the U.S blocked trade routes very needed by Japan.

Which we did not the least because of their vile, barbaric actions in China. It's clear that they were responsible for setting in to motion the events that led to WWII.

[Fedeledland]

Because the U.S blocked trade routes very needed by Japan.

Which we did not the least because of their vile, barbaric actions in China. It's clear that they were responsible for setting in to motion the events that led to WWII.

Which could have been averted by peaceful diplomacy between the U.S and Japan.

[Conserative Morality]

They are collectively known as the Islamic Empire, thanks.

They aren't known collectively as such. They are each known individually as 'The Islamic Empire'.

Sort of like saying your favorite Empire is the Empire, which can refer to anything from the Star Wars Galactic Empire to Asimov's Foundation Empire to Empire Arizona to the Empire in Warhammer.

[Vandengaarde]

Because the U.S blocked trade routes very needed by Japan.

Which we did not the least because of their vile, barbaric actions in China. It's clear that they were responsible for setting in to motion the events that led to WWII.

These supposed barbaric and vile actions were done by individual generals, not the government of Japan, who never condoned the actions.
In fact, the generals weren't even very much the cause. The individual soldiers were as well.
Ever heard of the 2/26 incident? It pointed out how radical the Japanese army was.

[Vetalia]

Which could have been averted by peaceful diplomacy between the U.S and Japan.

I highly doubt it. The people in charge of orchestrating those wars were hardly rational...the Japanese government had long since been subverted by the radical militarists who actively wanted war as opposed to the many others who opposed it.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Nope, not really. They were centres of learning and culture, especially for Jews who were persecuted by Christians. And in Al-Andaluz, Jews, Christians, and Muslims co-existed under Islamic rule.

They co-existed, Buffy, and certainly Cordoba was a marvel, but only Muslims were first-class citizens, and then only men. It was the Middle Ages, you know.

Women have quite a few rights, strictly according to the Qu'ran. Modern interpretation of Shariah law is derived from pre-Islamic tribal conditions. For example, maternity compensation and alimony were concepts championed by Islamic tradition. Women are equal before the eyes of Allah.

Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obeying men and the obeying women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women and the humble men and the humble women, and the alms giving men and the alms giving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women and the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember-- Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.

[Vandengaarde]

Which could have been averted by peaceful diplomacy between the U.S and Japan.

I highly doubt it. The people in charge of orchestrating those wars were hardly rational...the Japanese government had long since been subverted by the radical militarists who actively wanted war as opposed to the many others who opposed it.

The Japanese government didn't want war. Hell, the Chinese started the war with Japan at the Marco Polo bridge!

[Buffett and Colbert]

They are collectively known as the Islamic Empire, thanks.

They aren't known collectively as such. They are each known individually as 'The Islamic Empire'.

Sort of like saying your favorite Empire is the Empire, which can refer to anything from the Star Wars Galactic Empire to Asimov's Foundation Empire to Empire Arizona to the Empire in Warhammer.

If they are all comprised the Islamic Empire, they are colloquially the Islamic Empire. Nitpick all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm talking about them all as a whole.

[Conserative Morality]

If they are all comprised the Islamic Empire, they are colloquially the Islamic Empire. Nitpick all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm talking about them all as a whole.

In which case you're in favor of everyone from the tolerant early Ayyubids to the genocidal Ottomans of the 19th and 20th Century.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Yes, they were more tolerant than the average society. But they were still very intolerant. And although they were not persecuted, they were forced to take Jizya tax similar to the Jewish tax in Europe, which was also applied to Zoroastrians, all forms of Christians and Buddhists.

Which means they at least were not singled out. You can't compare a medieval Eastern society with today's Western standards.

And they were more intolerant towards the other branch of Islam than the Christians between each other.

Discrimination against dhimmis was institutionalized in traditional Islamic societies.

Maybe you should quote the entire paragraph.

The question of how tolerant Islam was, and is, towards other religions requires a definition of terms. If a lack of discrimination is the criterion for tolerance, one answer will emerge. If a lack of persecution, defined as active and violent repression, is the criterion, the question gets a different answer.[11] Discrimination against dhimmis was institutionalized in traditional Islamic societies. Persecution, on the other hand, was rare and atypical.[12] The dhimmi communities had their own chiefs and judges, with their own family, personal and religious laws.[13]

[Buffett and Colbert]

If they are all comprised the Islamic Empire, they are colloquially the Islamic Empire. Nitpick all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm talking about them all as a whole.

In which case you're in favor of everyone from the tolerant early Ayyubids to the genocidal Ottomans of the 19th and 20th Century.

I'm generally in favour of the medieval Islamic caliphates. Sue me.

[Vetalia]

The Japanese government didn't want war. Hell, the Chinese started the war with Japan at the Marco Polo bridge!

Yeah, because the Japanese military was conducting training exercises without letting them know and then they basically used a missing soldier as a pretext for total war. I'm sure that wasn't at all intentional, just like how they were "attacked" at Mukden in order to conveniently annex Manchuria. The Japanese wanted China as part of the Empire and they were looking for a reason to continue their campaign southward. Otherwise, they would have made an actual effort to resolve the dispute rather than declare war.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm generally in favour of the medieval Islamic caliphates. Sue me.

I'll deliver the summons by next week. Wear your best suit.

[Conserative Morality]

Which means they at least were not singled out. You can't compare a medieval Eastern society with today's Western standards.

*cough* Genghis Khan *cough cough*

Well, at least insofar as religious tolerance goes.

[EnragedMaldivians]

They aren't known collectively as such. They are each known individually as 'The Islamic Empire'.

Sort of like saying your favorite Empire is the Empire, which can refer to anything from the Star Wars Galactic Empire to Asimov's Foundation Empire to Empire Arizona to the Empire in Warhammer.

If they are all comprised the Islamic Empire, they are colloquially the Islamic Empire. Nitpick all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm talking about them all as a whole.

You liked the medeival Islamic empire"s."

Problem solved.

[Vandengaarde]

The Japanese government didn't want war. Hell, the Chinese started the war with Japan at the Marco Polo bridge!

Yeah, because the Japanese military was conducting training exercises without letting them know and then they basically used a missing soldier as a pretext for total war. I'm sure that wasn't at all intentional, just like how they were "attacked" at Mukden to conveniently annex Manchuria.

The Japanese wanted China as part of the Empire and they were looking for a reason to continue their campaign southward. Otherwise, they would have made an actual effort to resolve the dispute rather than declare war.

No, that's not true and I'll tell you why.

The Kwantung Army was the Japanese Army's forces in Manchuria. They were essentially independent- this had never been a problem. But they killed the Warlord of Manchuria ON THEIR OWN PRETEXTS. The Japanese Government didn't want to take Manchuria for themselves. It was the Army that did it; they had too much independence and that is what caused half the issues that led Japan to war.

Also, in Marco Polo Bridge, the Japanese signed a treaty with the Chinese across the bridge once the first conflict had stopped. The opposing military leaders on either side of the bridge were friends, so this was easy.
After a few weeks or days of peace, shots were fired ONCE AGAIN from the Chinese side. The Chinese started it.

[Kurundje]

My top five

1. Bismarks German empire
2. Russian empire
3. Belgian empire
4. British empire
5. Courlandian empire

[Buffett and Colbert]

Which means they at least were not singled out. You can't compare a medieval Eastern society with today's Western standards.

*cough* Genghis Khan *cough cough*

Well, at least insofar as religious tolerance goes.

Your point being?

[Buffett and Colbert]

If they are all comprised the Islamic Empire, they are colloquially the Islamic Empire. Nitpick all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm talking about them all as a whole.

You liked the medeival Islamic empire"s."

Problem solved.

I don't know why people get their knickers in a twist when I make use of a term colloquially.

[Buffett and Colbert]

I'm generally in favour of the medieval Islamic caliphates. Sue me.

I'll deliver the summons by next week. Wear your best suit.

It's Kashmir.