Flags which are offensive?

[NERVUN]

The whole bit has been addressed in The One-Stop Rules Shop. It boils down to this. Max said no. The people who use that symbol tend to use it in a manner which just causes trouble. Even if they don't people go looking for them to cause trouble. Since he pays the bills and doesn't want the trouble, there you are.

[Russiaria]

It is still an oxymoron to ban swastikas but allow Nazism.

So?

almost every single nation in human history has done at least one thing that's horrible. however there are a few nations (like the Nazis) who have done something even more horrible and inhuman than others, so their flag is seen as a hate symbol. Soviet russia is not one of these nations. nor is the ottoman turks.

Actually under Stalin the Soviet Union killed more than twice what was killed in the holocaust.

it's who they killed, how they killed them and why they killed them that matters.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

So?

So it's illogical to ban one but not the other :/

So? That's what happened, illogical or not.

[Verlan]

I remember looking at an exhibit of old American recruitment posters as a kid. One of them was distinctly from WWI despite no references to date, leaders or anything. The only indicator of its era was a small swastika separating the paragraphs.

[The Travuersan Union]

So it's illogical to ban one but not the other :/

So? That's what happened, illogical or not.

Agreed. I'm saying it shouldn't have happened...

[Greater Tezdrian]

OP, I agree with you. I'm also a Buddhist (Mahayana, not Vajrayana), and a Free-Tibet activist. But, tbh, I don't think of that when I see the PRC flag or, for that matter, the hammer and sickle. I think of communism. Now, let this issue die, it's been alive for far too long.

[Pokemonman]

Since offensive flags and the like are banned, specifically the swastika, why aren't communist flags banned as well?

People think of the swastika as a symbol of racial hate and genocide. People think of communist flags as a symbol of The Soviet Union and simply a piece of history. Even though the swastika is technically a piece of history as well, it is not though of that way usually.

Being a Tibetan Buddhist and having visited China, Nepal, Thailand, and the Philippines, I can sufficiently say that the swastika is a legitimate eastern religious symbol of rather inspiring proportions.

Most people don't think of it that way. If you randomly asked one hundred educated people on the streets of America or Europe, they would most likely say the swastika is a sign of genocide rather than an eastern religious symbol.

Also, I assume that the swastika is found offensive b/c of it's ties to the holocaust. Why aren't the flags of the USSR and PRC banned as well? The Soviet Union and the PRC both committed disgusting crimes against humanity on the scale that the Nazi regime perpetrated. You could deny this and believe that these states are/were worker's paradises but I don't deny the holocaust...

Even though the USSR and PRC committed crimes against humanity, genocide is not the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of those two places. Again, if you randomly asked one hundred people on the street what the first thing that comes to mind when you say "nazi" they'd probably say genocide, hate, etc. If you asked what the first thing that come to mind when you say USSR/PRC they'd probably say communism, Chinese/Russian food, etc.

[Russiaria]

The whole bit has been addressed in The One-Stop Rules Shop. It boils down to this. Max said no. The people who use that symbol tend to use it in a manner which just causes trouble. Even if they don't people go looking for them to cause trouble. Since he pays the bills and doesn't want the trouble, there you are.

this actually clears this issue up. I agree with what it says there. if you got a problem with that, take it up w/ max barry.

[Banold]

1.) Allow swastikas and allow Nazism

^^^This would be the policy concerning the game which makes most sense to me. I would hope other thinking people agree as well. But as I well know, I don't run this place.

The whole issue is not what is actually offensive but rather that the policy set is silly, illogical, and irrational.

I understand Max Berry has a right to be all these things and I support his right to choose his position. It's just that to me, it makes no sense in a nation-building/role playing game.

I'm not even asking for a change in policy, just what is thought about it. Surely we can still discuss our feelings?

[NERVUN]

1.) Allow swastikas and allow Nazism

^^^This would be the policy concerning the game which makes most sense to me. I would hope other thinking people agree as well. But as I well know, I don't run this place.

The whole issue is not what is actually offensive but rather that the policy set is silly, illogical, and irrational.

I understand Max Berry has a right to be all these things and I support his right to choose his position. It's just that to me, it makes no sense in a nation-building/role playing game.

I'm not even asking for a change in policy, just what is thought about it. Surely we can still discuss our feelings?

Just to correct you, there are a number of nations RPing Nazism. We don't ban that. We do ban the swastikas because, again, they do nothing but cause trouble.

And believe you me, we have heard it all before. Multiple times. In our sleep. With the T-shirts. And the stuffed bear too.

[The Truth and Light]

Discord caused by the existence of extremist symbols is not worth curing?

That's a completely different excuse than before. Before you were worried about offending people. Now it's discord.

Could you provide an example please?

I don't have to. Assuming that every Nazi is extreme is No True Scotsman.

I'm okay with that.

Whatever.

[Rokartian States]

Discord caused by the existence of extremist symbols is not worth curing?

That's a completely different excuse than before.

So when somebody provides a reason for an opinion that opposes your views, it's an excuse?

Before you were worried about offending people. Now it's discord.

The problem with offending people is that it causes discord.

Could you provide an example please?

I don't have to. Assuming that every Nazi is extreme is No True Scotsman.

No it isn't. Unless you disagree that creating policies based on biological racism is extreme, Nazism is, by definition, extreme.

I'm okay with that.

Whatever.

I wasn't just trying to blow you off, by the way. If banning the use of swastikas is antiliberty, then so too is legislation against murder.

[The Truth and Light]

That's a completely different excuse than before.

So when somebody provides a reason for an opinion that opposes your views, it's an excuse?

Before you were worried about offending people. Now it's discord.

The problem with offending people is that it causes discord.

I don't have to. Assuming that every Nazi is extreme is No True Scotsman.

No it isn't. Unless you disagree that creating policies based on biological racism is extreme, Nazism is, by definition, extreme.

Whatever.

I wasn't just trying to blow you off, by the way. If banning the use of swastikas is antiliberty, then so too is legislation against murder.

I kinda get what you're getting at, but if it weren't for other posts than yours your opinion would have never been quite clear.

Swastikas are banned because they cause more conflict than other symbols. Whatever. :|

[Nobel Hobos]

Actually considering the environment of Nationstates, political, moral and ethical controversy seems to be a staple pf the attention seeker. I suspect the only reason why Max singled out the swastika is because it's too easy. It's like running into a fancy restaurant and shouting 'PUBES!'.

⇧ wot LG sed

[New Korongo]

Why is the christian cross not banned?

[Nobel Hobos]

Why is the christian cross not banned?

It is.

Obscene and Explicit Content: Sexually graphic images and posts, and violent images such as bloody corpses. Very strictly forbidden. Obscene imagery and content in the forums should be reported to the Moderation Forum. Please provide a link to the topic, but do not quote it while explaining its illegality. Then we have to find and delete your posts too.

See? You can have a cross, but to make it christian you have to have a scantily clad bloke nailed to it. Too gory.

[NERVUN]

Why is the christian cross not banned?

Read the OSRS to see why (X symbol that you think is worse than the swastika is not banned even though, no really, they like, killed tons more and I hates it! I hates it! HATES HATES HATES IT!) is not banned.

[NERVUN]

Why is the christian cross not banned?

It is.

Obscene and Explicit Content: Sexually graphic images and posts, and violent images such as bloody corpses. Very strictly forbidden. Obscene imagery and content in the forums should be reported to the Moderation Forum. Please provide a link to the topic, but do not quote it while explaining its illegality. Then we have to find and delete your posts too.

See? You can have a cross, but to make it christian you have to have a scantily clad bloke nailed to it. Too gory.

That's Catholic!

[New Korongo]

Why is the christian cross not banned?

It is.

The Christian cross does not have to represent jesus, it often only represents the cross.

And my question again, why is it not banned?

[Threlizdun]

Any symbol can be taken as offensive or inspirational depending on the individual. Like the poster said, the swastika was originally an eastern religious symbol, as the term "aryan" itself, originally referred to the indo-aryan tribes that migrated to India. The hammer and sickle can represent any form of communism or socialism really. I personally like the symbol, though I am an anarcho-syndicalist and am heavily opposed to the practices imposed by the Soviet Union. Crosses, crescent moons, stars of david, or any other religious symbol almost always brings about both inspiration and hate. I personally don't agree with any symbol being banned on nationstates.

[Mount Shavano]

The swastika isn't banned for anything to do with anyone being offended. It's banned because it is illegal in Germany, and the folks running NS don't want legal trouble or to lose that portion of the player base (no matter how small it is).[/thread]

[Nobel Hobos]

It is.



See? You can have a cross, but to make it christian you have to have a scantily clad bloke nailed to it. Too gory.

That's Catholic!

So the Protestants would protest?

It is.

The Christian cross does not have to represent jesus, it often only represents the cross.

And my question again, why is it not banned?

Because it isn't. If you don't like it, write a letter to Max. I don't feel any compunction to defend something that just is ... because the level of injustice in it isn't worth a sparrow's fart.

If you're not in the mood to joke, we're done here.

[Threlizdun]

The swastika isn't banned for anything to do with anyone being offended. It's banned because it is illegal in Germany, and the folks running NS don't want legal trouble or to lose that portion of the player base (no matter how small it is).[/thread]

Wow, I never thought of that, though I suppose that makes sense.

[Syloria]

After briefly reviewing etiquette policy and such I am a wee bit puzzled about policy here on NS, and I wanted your weigh ins.

Since offensive flags and the like are banned, specifically the swastika, why aren't communist flags banned as well?

Being a Tibetan Buddhist and having visited China, Nepal, Thailand, and the Philippines, I can sufficiently say that the swastika is a legitimate eastern religious symbol of rather inspiring proportions.

Also, I assume that the swastika is found offensive b/c of it's ties to the holocaust. Why aren't the flags of the USSR and PRC banned as well? The Soviet Union and the PRC both committed disgusting crimes against humanity on the scale that the Nazi regime perpetrated. You could deny this and believe that these states are/were worker's paradises but I don't deny the holocaust...

I'm sure this has been brought up before but I'm just pondering and curious to know what you all think out there

because communism did not kill people. the leaders did.

[Apoctis]

plus if that was allowed every kid and their grandmother would have some sort of nazi flag and be all "I nazi" it would be like the helghast epidemic we constantly see on uniform posts.