Best British Prime Minister before 100 years ago

[Forsakia]

Since we seem to be getting some interest on the other thread. Taking Henry Campbell-Bannerman as the last qualifying Prime Minister. (And including all First Lords of the Treasury anyone The Archregimancy thinks should count before some smart arse makes a clever point about CB being the first ever official Prime Minister).

Let Pitt the Younger square off against Gladstone etc. I've only got 10 options but tried to be fair, I'm sure I've missed all the best ones off the poll which you can complain about at length.

So history buffs, have at it.

[The Archregimancy]

Huzzah for Gladstone, Britain's greatest Victorian Prime Minister!

And I'm not just saying that because I'm currently writing an academic book chapter on the archaeology of Gladstonian Britain. I have form as a defender the Grand Old Man...

Sorry, but I find Disraeli to be a triumph of style over substance, a man willing to discard almost any political principle if it took him closer to the top of the proverbial greasy pole. His entire career is a triumph of expediency over principle, and in that sense he almost singlehandedly invented modern British politics. I don't mean that as a compliment.

Gladstone was undoubtedly a moralist, and often a tiresome one, but on most of the substantive issues of his day, he was right, though not always successful. He was right on electoral reform, he was right on social reform, he was usually right on economic policy, and he was certainly right on Ireland. Modern Britain would be inconceivable without him, and I do mean that as a compliment. Catherine Gladstone probably summed it up best when she said to her husband, "Oh William, if you weren't such a great man you'd be a terrible bore".

I suppose it ultimately depends on whether you prefer your Victorian politicians as substance-free mercurial geniuses or substance-stuffed moralising geniuses.

Yes, Disraeli was sometimes right, but often for the wrong reasons. Even when he was wrong, Gladstone was often wrong for the right reasons.

(And including all First Lords of the Treasury before some smart arse makes a clever point about CB being the first ever official Prime Minister).

Including the four who precede Robert Walpole's quasi-official term as 'first Prime Minister'?

[The Archregimancy]

(And including all First Lords of the Treasury anyone The Archregimancy thinks should count before some smart arse makes a clever point about CB being the first ever official Prime Minister).

Alrighty, then... Since I get to be official arbiter, let's make it everyone from Sir Robert Walpole on through Henry Campbell-Bannerman.

[Forsakia]

(And including all First Lords of the Treasury before some smart arse makes a clever point about CB being the first ever official Prime Minister).

Including the four who precede Robert Walpole's quasi-official term as 'first Prime Minister'?

And I thought I'd dodged the "definition of Prime Minister" bullet.

[North Suran]

Disraeli in the international sphere, Gladstone in domestic affairs.

[Sedgistan]

Earl Grey - spent years on the opposition benches due to his support for parliamentary reform, and finally got his chance to be PM in 1830. Passed the Great Reform Act (1832), setting the UK on the (slow) path towards democracy, and abolished slavery in the Empire, before retiring in 1834. What more could you want?

(And, I suppose, the tea...)

[North Suran]

Earl Grey - spent years on the opposition benches due to his support for parliamentary reform, and finally got his chance to be PM in 1830. Passed the Great Reform Act (1832), setting the UK on the (slow) path towards democracy, and abolished slavery in the Empire, before retiring in 1834. What more could you want?

(And, I suppose, the tea...)

I think the Earl Grey has already received enough recognition for his efforts. He was, after all, put on a brand of tea, which is the highest honour than can be bestowed on any British citizen - exceeding even the Victoria Cross and the Order of the British Empire.

[Georgism]

Probably Gladstone.

[The Archregimancy]

Probably Gladstone.

Huzzah!

But why all the poll love for the Duke of Wellington? I don't doubt his abilities as a general (and I used to live on the battlefield of the Battle of Waterloo), but he was a fairly dismal politician whose achievement in passing Catholic Emancipation (largely because he had no choice after O'Connell's election) in his brief two year term as Prime Minister was overwhelmed by his opposition to any form of electoral reform. He was so unpopular by the end of his short term that he had iron shutters placed over the windows of his London residence to stop passers-by from smashing the windows; this, rather than any reference to a strong personality, was what earned him the nickname 'the iron duke'.

He continued his staunch opposition to electoral reform as leader of the opposition. Reform would pass the Commons only to be shot down by Wellington's Tories in the Lords. When he was forced to back down by William IV's threat to create enough Whig peers to get reform through the Lords, Wellington's huffy reaction to the first sitting of the Commons after the Great Reform Act was "I never saw so many shocking bad hats in my life."

Earl Grey - spent years on the opposition benches due to his support for parliamentary reform, and finally got his chance to be PM in 1830. Passed the Great Reform Act (1832), setting the UK on the (slow) path towards democracy, and abolished slavery in the Empire, before retiring in 1834. What more could you want?

Shagging Georgina Cavendish, the Duchess of Devonshire? And fathering an illegitimate child by her? Causing such a scandal that the Duke almost divorced the Duchess? And using the social connections arising from that relationship to ingratiate himself with the Whig leadership, leading to his rise to political prominence?

Earl Grey was a man of many undoubted talents, but one suspects that he was a bit of a cad.

[Forsakia]

Probably Gladstone.

Huzzah!

But why all the poll love for the Duke of Wellington? I don't doubt his abilities as a general (and I used to live on the battlefield of the Battle of Waterloo), but he was a fairly dismal politician whose achievement in passing Catholic Emancipation (largely because he had no choice after O'Connell's election) in his brief two year term as Prime Minister was overwhelmed by his opposition to any form of electoral reform. He was so unpopular by the end of his short term that he had iron shutters placed over the windows of his London residence to stop passers-by from smashing the windows; this, rather than any reference to a strong personality, was what earned him the nickname 'the iron duke'.

He continued his staunch opposition to electoral reform as leader of the opposition. Reform would pass the Commons only to be shot down by Wellington's Tories in the Lords. When he was forced to back down by William IV's threat to create enough Whig peers to get reform through the Lords, Wellington's huffy reaction to the first sitting of the Commons after the Great Reform Act was "I never saw so many shocking bad hats in my life."

Earl Grey - spent years on the opposition benches due to his support for parliamentary reform, and finally got his chance to be PM in 1830. Passed the Great Reform Act (1832), setting the UK on the (slow) path towards democracy, and abolished slavery in the Empire, before retiring in 1834. What more could you want?

Shagging Georgina Cavendish, the Duchess of Devonshire? And fathering an illegitimate child by her? Causing such a scandal that the Duke almost divorced the Duchess? And using the social connections arising from that relationship to ingratiate himself with the Whig leadership, leading to his rise to political prominence?

Earl Grey was a man of many undoubted talents, but one suspects that he was a bit of a cad.

I have to admit I only included Wellington in the poll because he was getting some mentions on the other thread. Between Grey, Lloyd George and Charles Fox the Whigs and Liberals certainly seemed to have plenty of fun. (I suppose Gladstone also hung around with prostitutes but afaik was respectable with them).

[Alf Landon]

Although his rather classical liberal ideology soon became out of sync with a changing country, hard to deny Gladstone wasn't the greatest. List of reforms as long as my arm, not least of which was a major expansion of the vote.

Hard to judge leaders much before then as great, especially since it was part and parcel of the job to crush the lower classes whenever they got abit aggravated. Honourable mentions, though, to Earl Grey and Pitt the Elder. The first because he really started to roll the ball on democratization of the country with the Reform Act of 1832, and it was under his watch that slavery was abolished (peacefully, mind, one-up on the USA! ). And Pitt the Elder really set a new standard of competence, and was a great break in the tradition of Prime Ministers being 9 to 5 men (yeah, they could do a competent job, but being a great leader wasn't the objective of their lives): Pitt really threw everything into being a master of his post, and no doubt he laid the foundations for Britain to be the premier world power to boot.

And, yeah, on Wellington. Great general, but a terrible Prime Minister. He was on the front line in the fight against the Reform Act - the idea of extending the vote to even the wider middle class horrified him!

[Forsakia]

Maybe a dishonourable mention for Lord Roseberry, Prime Minister for barely a year and his horses managed to win the Derby twice in that time.

[Divair]

Who was the most liberal of them?

[Ifreann]

There's only one way to decide this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyZ7oU0tUR8

[Aethelstania]

Who was the most liberal of them?

Gladstone

and for me its a stand of between him and Disraeli

[Forsakia]

Who was the most liberal of them?

Gladstone

and for me its a stand of between him and Disraeli

It's such a great rivalry, began in the same party before becoming rivals and opponents on every issue from major policy to petty things about the etiquette of paying for the furnishing in Downing Street.

[Divair]

Who was the most liberal of them?

Gladstone

and for me its a stand of between him and Disraeli

Could you summarize what Gladstone did as PM?