It's a Choice.....Oh Really?

[Risottia]

So in the thread about discrimination by a BnB against a homosexual couple, the topic of homosexuality being a choice came up.
...
As for the rest of us, what are your thoughts on this whole mythos about homosexuality being a choice?

My opinion about it: NO sexual preference is a choice, and ANY human sexual behaviour is a choice (within a reasonable limit - let's take a severe paraphilia as example...).

Anyway, I don't really see what the fuss is all about. WHO CARES if being homosexual or heterosexual is a choice or not? My sexual preferences are MY OWN BUSINESS. And my sexual behaviour - as long as it doesn't damage or endangers other people - is MY OWN BUSINESS too. And what I make, alone or with consenting adults, in my place of residence (including a temporary one, like a hotel room), is, guess what, MY OWN BUSINESS (and my partner's/s' ) unless it doesn't damage or endangers other people.

[UCUMAY]

I've posted enough that I'm female to where most of NSG should know.

But your name isn't dainty and feminine, therefore everyone is right to assume you're male!

[GeneralHaNor]

when your name appears to be a random sequence of letters, disclaimers are in order.

I've posted enough that I'm female to where most of NSG should know.

This assumes a few things

1. I care about Gender
2. I care enough about people on this forum to note their gender
3. that you are memorable enough to warrant such attention to detail

[UCUMAY]

I've posted enough that I'm female to where most of NSG should know.

This assumes a few things

1. I care about Gender
2. I care enough about people on this forum to note their gender
3. that you are memorable enough to warrant such attention to detail

Then why bother assuming and making an ass out of yourself?

[Bottle]

But your name isn't dainty and feminine, therefore everyone is right to assume you're male!

What I've learned from the internet is that, as a woman, you are required to perform femininity VERY CONSPICUOUSLY so that everyone can know you're female and treat you differently. Failure to do so will make certain people very, very angry, because they feel "tricked" when they falsely assume you are male and then find out they are mistaken.

[Zeth Rekia]

What I've learned from the internet is that, as a woman, you are required to perform femininity VERY CONSPICUOUSLY so that everyone can know you're female and treat you differently. Failure to do so will make certain people very, very angry, because they feel "tricked" when they falsely assume you are male and then find out they are mistaken.

[GeneralHaNor]

This assumes a few things

1. I care about Gender
2. I care enough about people on this forum to note their gender
3. that you are memorable enough to warrant such attention to detail

Then why bother assuming and making an ass out of yourself?

because there are no gender neutral pro nouns in the english language
I can only be default call some male, until it is clear otherwise

I know now, however don't expect me to care enough to remember

[Dvardis]

What I've learned from the internet is that, as a woman, you are required to perform femininity VERY CONSPICUOUSLY so that everyone can know you're female and treat you differently. Failure to do so will make certain people very, very angry, because they feel "tricked" when they falsely assume you are male and then find out they are mistaken.

What I've learned is that in many places it is most desirable to claim to be a guy so as to avoid all the "Tits or GTFO" and "lol no girls on the internet" harassment, and then subsequently being either treated with somewhat creepy admiration or accused of being a 15 year old boy in disguise. In fact, I almost expect this from any webforums not expressly dominated by females.

You'd probably think of that as just contributing to the status quo instead of trying to change things, though.

Hard for me to address this question because I don't believe in binary gender in the first place. So it kind of becomes a nonsensical issue to me.

Eh... "is sexual orientation a choice" is more or less the same question whether you limit the possible choices to three or think there are as many orientations as there are people.

I believe pretty much all attraction is inherent, but I also believe it's sometimes possible for you to convince yourself you're attracted to people you'd otherwise not be interested in, and vice versa. With enough time, effort and pain you could "retrain" yourself into liking a different gender or being asexual or whatever. I don't know why anyone would want to do that, though; it seems silly.

[Tekania]

Then why bother assuming and making an ass out of yourself?

because there are no gender neutral pro nouns in the english language
I can only be default call some male, until it is clear otherwise

I know now, however don't expect me to care enough to remember

Well, we have it as a neuter pronoun... But people tend to not like being called it.

[Kiskaanak]

What I've learned from the internet is that, as a woman, you are required to perform femininity VERY CONSPICUOUSLY so that everyone can know you're female and treat you differently. Failure to do so will make certain people very, very angry, because they feel "tricked" when they falsely assume you are male and then find out they are mistaken.

What I'd like to see actually, is a study done on the way that posters who identify as female are spoken to as opposed to those who are male, making the same points. I find that I get lectured a lot more when people realise I'm a woman...and also accusations of 'not being logical' come fast and furious. Which is always funny, since the more vocal males making these accusations quite often have very scattered arguments that are difficult to follow. This of course is due to the female brain being inferior, no doubt, and not to any actual lack of logic or coherence on their part.

[UCUMAY]

What I've learned from the internet is that, as a woman, you are required to perform femininity VERY CONSPICUOUSLY so that everyone can know you're female and treat you differently. Failure to do so will make certain people very, very angry, because they feel "tricked" when they falsely assume you are male and then find out they are mistaken.

What I'd like to see actually, is a study done on the way that posters who identify as female are spoken to as opposed to those who are male, making the same points. I find that I get lectured a lot more when people realise I'm a woman...and also accusations of 'not being logical' come fast and furious. Which is always funny, since the more vocal males making these accusations quite often have very scattered arguments that are difficult to follow. This of course is due to the female brain being inferior, no doubt, and not to any actual lack of logic or coherence on their part.

It's simply a form of sexism that refuses to die.

[Nu Virginia]

*Ahem*

To the best of my knoledge, homosexuality is a choice, however, certian genetic factors deffinitley make one more or less likley to be a homosexual.

The same thing could be said about alcoholisim, you have a choice in the matter, but certian genes make you more susceptible to it.


Oh, and just so we are clear, in Nu Virginia, the goverment has no matters in the establishment of marriage, so gay-marriage is a non issue. If you have an orginization that defines marriage as "The union between a man and a horse" You could have them legally marry you off to a horse. In short, the govermnet dosen't give a s***.

[Kiskaanak]

It's simply a form of sexism that refuses to die.

It is interesting though, that when confronted with the possibility that his debating opponent is female, some men will immediately read 'lack of logic and emotional control' into every post because this is a 'feminine trait'. The corollary of course is that their own argument is unquestionably logical because men are better at that.

I see something similar when some men speak to gay men. Gay men are assumed to be more 'feminine' and thus less logical than straight men.

I do not know, however, if these same men would consider gay women to be more logical (or rational) than straight women...or less. I suppose that depends on whether they're picturing a 'masculine' lesbian or a porn star lesbian?

[UCUMAY]

*Ahem*

To the best of my knoledge, homosexuality is a choice, however, certian genetic factors deffinitley make one more or less likley to be a homosexual.

The same thing could be said about alcoholisim, you have a choice in the matter, but certian genes make you more susceptible to it.


Oh, and just so we are clear, in Nu Virginia, the goverment has no matters in the establishment of marriage, so gay-marriage is a non issue. If you have an orginization that defines marriage as "The union between a man and a horse" You could have them legally marry you off to a horse. In short, the govermnet dosen't give a s***.

Even though I don't agree that it's a choice. I'm all for kicking the government out of the bedroom.

[Galloism]

I am not the person who goes bare assed into the streets to annoy decent people and try forcing onto them that a sexual deviation is normal

The fuck? Where the hell do you hang out?

Well, there was that one time that you and Hammurab just got back from Tijuana, and were tripping on some alcohol that you got while you were banging a black Mexican prostitute, that was laced with something, and you left with no money, stumbled across the border, and were running bare-assed through the streets pointing at Hammurab and shouting "Gayness is not a choice! I hate this man, and it's not a choice! They're here and they're queer! Accept it bitches!" over and over and over again.

[Forum Seven]

It's simply a form of sexism that refuses to die.

It is interesting though, that when confronted with the possibility that his debating opponent is female, some men will immediately read 'lack of logic and emotional control' into every post because this is a 'feminine trait'. The corollary of course is that their own argument is unquestionably logical because men are better at that.

I see something similar when some men speak to gay men. Gay men are assumed to be more 'feminine' and thus less logical than straight men.

I do not know, however, if these same men would consider gay women to be more logical (or rational) than straight women...or less. I suppose that depends on whether they're picturing a 'masculine' lesbian or a porn star lesbian?

Perhaps I don't debate much, but I haven't seen much of that sexist view.

Granted, I don't debate much.

However, I've never heard that take on gays.

If anything, I'd get the impression that the stereotype is because they are 'perceived' as trying to be female e.g. more feminine than feminine.

I'm not saying its true, I'm saying its what seems to be true about the stereotype.

[The Parkus Empire]

It's simply a form of sexism that refuses to die.

It is interesting though, that when confronted with the possibility that his debating opponent is female, some men will immediately read 'lack of logic and emotional control' into every post because this is a 'feminine trait'. The corollary of course is that their own argument is unquestionably logical because men are better at that.

I see something similar when some men speak to gay men. Gay men are assumed to be more 'feminine' and thus less logical than straight men.

I do not know, however, if these same men would consider gay women to be more logical (or rational) than straight women...or less. I suppose that depends on whether they're picturing a 'masculine' lesbian or a porn star lesbian?

But...what...about...bisexuals?

*explodes*

No such thing.

[UCUMAY]

It is interesting though, that when confronted with the possibility that his debating opponent is female, some men will immediately read 'lack of logic and emotional control' into every post because this is a 'feminine trait'. The corollary of course is that their own argument is unquestionably logical because men are better at that.

I see something similar when some men speak to gay men. Gay men are assumed to be more 'feminine' and thus less logical than straight men.

I do not know, however, if these same men would consider gay women to be more logical (or rational) than straight women...or less. I suppose that depends on whether they're picturing a 'masculine' lesbian or a porn star lesbian?

But...what...about...bisexuals?

*explodes*

No such thing.

I guess I don't exist.

[Tekania]

This highlights a very important reality.... It does not matter in the slightest whether or not homosexuality is a choice. It's not something relevant to the context of the civil law where government still has no business determining what private activities two consenting adults engage in, nor to treat their property any different than holdings of other such consenting adults who have or wish to enter into a civil contract of union as such.

[Galloism]

But...what...about...bisexuals?

*explodes*

No such thing.

I guess I don't exist.

Only bisexual women exist, because that opens up possibilities for threesomes.

Men are either gay, straight, or gay and trying to look straight so people won't give them shit.

[Kiskaanak]

Perhaps I don't debate much, but I haven't seen much of that sexist view.

Granted, I don't debate much.

However, I've never heard that take on gays.

If anything, I'd get the impression that the stereotype is because they are 'perceived' as trying to be female e.g. more feminine than feminine.

I'm not saying its true, I'm saying its what seems to be true about the stereotype.

Are you female?

Sometimes we don't notice certain things when they aren't constantly directed at us.

I'm on another forum right now that is shockingly full of casual misogyny and that has a very small percentage of women compared to NSG. It's mind-blowing how different the treatment has been compared to what posters would get away with here, with so many outspoken and extremely logical women.

I came across this all the time in real life too though, especially with political science graduate students (male) who would lecture women in bars constantly...and when losing an argument would resort to talking about what bitches we are, or how we just don't understand because we're so irrational.

[Forum Seven]

I guess I don't exist.

Only bisexual women exist, because that opens up possibilities for threesomes.

Men are either gay, straight, or gay and trying to look straight so people won't give them shit.

A guy at my school gives off the impression of straight and trying to look almost-but-not-quite-gay so girls won't suspect a thing when he hits on them.

[Forum Seven]

Perhaps I don't debate much, but I haven't seen much of that sexist view.

Granted, I don't debate much.

However, I've never heard that take on gays.

If anything, I'd get the impression that the stereotype is because they are 'perceived' as trying to be female e.g. more feminine than feminine.

I'm not saying its true, I'm saying its what seems to be true about the stereotype.

Are you female?

Sometimes we don't notice certain things when they aren't constantly directed at us.

I'm on another forum right now that is shockingly full of casual misogyny and that has a very small percentage of women compared to NSG. It's mind-blowing how different the treatment has been compared to what posters would get away with here, with so many outspoken and extremely logical women.

I came across this all the time in real life too though, especially with political science graduate students (male) who would lecture women in bars constantly...and when losing an argument would resort to talking about what bitches we are, or how we just don't understand because we're so irrational.

...

No.

[Kobeanare]

Still only on the fourth page, so this may have already been discussed, but....why? Are you actually bisexual, or simply not ridiculously homophobic?

I am bi-sexual, and as my real life boyfriend will tell you. I am not scared of my attraction to women. I just haven't choosen to seek out a relationship with a woman. I'm not against the possiblity though.

What would your boyfriend be able to attest to so greatly? Being a guy and all...

That you choose only to seek out guys certainly seems to indicate a lack of interest in the possibility of a relationship with a woman.

[Bottle]

What I've learned from the internet is that, as a woman, you are required to perform femininity VERY CONSPICUOUSLY so that everyone can know you're female and treat you differently. Failure to do so will make certain people very, very angry, because they feel "tricked" when they falsely assume you are male and then find out they are mistaken.

What I've learned is that in many places it is most desirable to claim to be a guy so as to avoid all the "Tits or GTFO" and "lol no girls on the internet" harassment, and then subsequently being either treated with somewhat creepy admiration or accused of being a 15 year old boy in disguise. In fact, I almost expect this from any webforums not expressly dominated by females.

You'd probably think of that as just contributing to the status quo instead of trying to change things, though.

I generally don't beat up on women/gays/minorities/whoever for doing what they have to do to get by in a crummy situation. I figure that they already get beat up on enough as it is.

Besides, I pretend I'm male on the internet all the time, especially since I'm a gamer and I play MMOs.

Hard for me to address this question because I don't believe in binary gender in the first place. So it kind of becomes a nonsensical issue to me.

Eh... "is sexual orientation a choice" is more or less the same question whether you limit the possible choices to three or think there are as many orientations as there are people.

I believe pretty much all attraction is inherent, but I also believe it's sometimes possible for you to convince yourself you're attracted to people you'd otherwise not be interested in, and vice versa. With enough time, effort and pain you could "retrain" yourself into liking a different gender or being asexual or whatever. I don't know why anyone would want to do that, though; it seems silly.

Well, see, for me the question of "is homosexuality a choice" is like "is being attracted to blonde people a choice?"

I don't think we can pick and choose who we are attracted to, but I do think we can control how we choose to act on our attractions. Whether sexuality is defined as what you feel, how you act on those feelings, or both is a matter of debate.