It's a Choice.....Oh Really?

[Neo Art]

So Prides do more to inspire fear and loathing of homosexuals than they do tolerance, which is bad. It's a riduclous way of conducting a civil rights movement.

On one hand there's a point to that, and there's something to be said for pragmatism versus idealism, and taking the long view.

On the other hand, how much in the way of civil rights has been gained by sitting quietly and waiting for acceptance?

Plus, I find they tend to the homogenus - Not all gay people enjoy clubbing and wearing dildos as shirts.

Heh, you said homo.

there isn't a Hetrosexual Pride movement which works in the same way as Gay Pride.

To an extent I think that's because hereosexuality was never something one HAD to hide. You never had to be afraid of wearing a wedding ring, or kissing your partner, or talking about your partner, or revealing you had a partner, if you were straight.

Being gay, and being KNOWN to be gay, for a very long time in our history, causes ostrization at best, and legitimate fear of reprisal at worst. Part of the "gay pride" movement is the exploration at social norms that while the population at large might not LIKE it, society has gotten to the point where you don't really have to FEAR that much, the whole "we're here, we're queer, get used to it" idea.

That and it's a bit of thumbing the nose of the establishment. After all, if there were people out there who really reviled your existance, truly despised you for who you are, it's hard to resist pissing them off just a little bit.

Now whether that helps in the long view, I can't say. I do know a lot of members of GLAD that I work with quietly shake their heads every time Boston Pride comes along, seeing it as basically just an excuse to make raucous noises, while real serious people do actual serious work about advancing the next frontier of the civil rights movement.

[Ceannairceach]

Ok then, it's decidedly NOT a choice. Got it.

That's something biological. It's natural for me to be turned off by other guys.

So it must be natural for gays to be turned off by women. Again, disproved yourself.

[UCDF]

To be fair, 'Prides' are absolutely ridiculous. It's like "we're normal people, just like you, and there's no reason to discriminate against us. To prove that, we'll all get mostly naked and conduct large, freqeuntly hedonistic parades in all your cities." It's an incredibly counter productive way of changing attitudes and based around behaviour that most would never normally countenance - And importantly, there isn't really a parallell for hetrosexuality

Of course, 'sexual deviation' is perfectly normal as millions of people have shown repeatedly with overwhelming evidence and logic.

I'm jealous that gay people get to be open about their sexuality and have fun with it. Too many straight people are giant, no fun, sex-negative prudes.

Then go be a hippie like my sister.

[Helertia]

He can't choose it, but heterosexual men in prison often do as a preferable alternative to nothing.

Then those men are more likely bisexual than straight.

Meh, not really, just desperate. Sex is sex is sex, and feels good either way.

[Coccygia]

No.

But he can artificially inseminate a woman, who will carry his biological child for him.

Artificial insemination is expensive like 30k an attempt. I have heard of gay couples who will do it the natural way but HATE it. Regardless they can still have natural babies. It's just not their preferred sex partner. Like as if UCDF tried to get it on with a guy. Not preferred and in that case not even likely.

jeez, hasn't anybody every heard of turkey basters? (Hence the term, "basterd"?)

[Wilgrove]

Then those men are more likely bisexual than straight.

Meh, not really, just desperate. Sex is sex is sex, and feels good either way.

Hmm maybe, I've never been to Prison, and I hope not never go to one, so I can't really say.

[Ceannairceach]

I'm jealous that gay people get to be open about their sexuality and have fun with it. Too many straight people are giant, no fun, sex-negative prudes.

I, for one, would love to watch a heterosexual pride parade It'd be a bucket of laughs.

[Dakini]

So you're not attracted to guys, and you can't choose to be attracted to guys? Is that what you're saying?

I CAN chose, But I wouldn't, because, well, to me, guys are pretty repulsive.

So when I think about gays, I think:


OH EWW OH MY *VOMIT*

No, you're attracted to who you're attracted to. There's very little choice there.

You can choose who you date, you can choose who you engage in relationships with, but you can't choose who you're attracted to.

[UCDF]

So Prides do more to inspire fear and loathing of homosexuals than they do tolerance, which is bad. It's a riduclous way of conducting a civil rights movement.

On one hand there's a point to that, and there's something to be said for pragmatism versus idealism, and taking the long view.

On the other hand, how much in the way of civil rights has been gained by sitting quietly and waiting for acceptance?

Plus, I find they tend to the homogenus - Not all gay people enjoy clubbing and wearing dildos as shirts.

Heh, you said homo.

there isn't a Hetrosexual Pride movement which works in the same way as Gay Pride.

To an extent I think that's because hereosexuality was never something one HAD to hide. You never had to be afraid of wearing a wedding ring, or kissing your partner, or talking about your partner, or revealing you had a partner, if you were straight.

Being gay, and being KNOWN to be gay, for a very long time in our history, causes ostrization at best, and legitimate fear of reprisal at worst. Part of the "gay pride" movement is the exploration at social norms that while the population at large might not LIKE it, society has gotten to the point where you don't really have to FEAR that much, the whole "we're here, we're queer, get used to it" idea.

That and it's a bit of thumbing the nose of the establishment. After all, if there were people out there who really reviled your existance, truly despised you for who you are, it's hard to resist pissing them off just a little bit.

Now whether that helps in the long view, I can't say. I do know a lot of members of GLAD that I work with quietly shake their heads every time Boston Pride comes along, seeing it as basically just an excuse to make raucous noises, while real serious people do actual serious work about advancing the next frontier of the civil rights movement.

@ the top.

None, but Martin Luther King Jr. didn't walk around the neighborhoods naked.

[Ceannairceach]

\
None, but Martin Luther King Jr. didn't walk around the neighborhoods naked.

Nor to homosexuals. Your point being...?

People, HOMOSEXUAL =/= NATURALIST!

[Dakini]

Ok then, it's decidedly NOT a choice. Got it.

That's something biological. It's natural for me to be turned off by other guys.

Emphasis added.

For some men, it's natural for them to be turned on by guys and not at all turned on by girls. For some men, they get turned on by both.

[UCDF]

No.

But he can artificially inseminate a woman, who will carry his biological child for him.

Artificial insemination is expensive like 30k an attempt. I have heard of gay couples who will do it the natural way but HATE it. Regardless they can still have natural babies. It's just not their preferred sex partner. Like as if UCDF tried to get it on with a guy. Not preferred and in that case not even likely.

The second to last sentence is offensive.

[Wilgrove]

\
None, but Martin Luther King Jr. didn't walk around the neighborhoods naked.

Nor to homosexuals. Your point being...?

People, HOMOSEXUAL =/= NATURALIST!

Apparently gay pride parades are nothing more than one massive orgy. If that's the case, then I've been going to the wrong gay pride parade.

[Helertia]

On one hand there's a point to that, and there's something to be said for pragmatism versus idealism, and taking the long view.

On the other hand, how much in the way of civil rights has been gained by sitting quietly and waiting for acceptance?



Heh, you said homo.



To an extent I think that's because hereosexuality was never something one HAD to hide. You never had to be afraid of wearing a wedding ring, or kissing your partner, or talking about your partner, or revealing you had a partner, if you were straight.

Being gay, and being KNOWN to be gay, for a very long time in our history, causes ostrization at best, and legitimate fear of reprisal at worst. Part of the "gay pride" movement is the exploration at social norms that while the population at large might not LIKE it, society has gotten to the point where you don't really have to FEAR that much, the whole "we're here, we're queer, get used to it" idea.

That and it's a bit of thumbing the nose of the establishment. After all, if there were people out there who really reviled your existance, truly despised you for who you are, it's hard to resist pissing them off just a little bit.

Now whether that helps in the long view, I can't say. I do know a lot of members of GLAD that I work with quietly shake their heads every time Boston Pride comes along, seeing it as basically just an excuse to make raucous noises, while real serious people do actual serious work about advancing the next frontier of the civil rights movement.

@ the top.

None, but Martin Luther King Jr. didn't walk around the neighborhoods naked.

Which is sort of my point, as much as I hate agreeing with you. It's quite possible to have a civil rights movement without the hedonistic apsects of Pride, whether real of perceived. We need to emphasise how gays are the same as everyone else and perfectly normal, not how different we are. Sure, Prides had a use once, but not any more - and they've evolved into something else entirely to boot.

[Helertia]

To be fair, 'Prides' are absolutely ridiculous. It's like "we're normal people, just like you, and there's no reason to discriminate against us. To prove that, we'll all get mostly naked and conduct large, freqeuntly hedonistic parades in all your cities." It's an incredibly counter productive way of changing attitudes and based around behaviour that most would never normally countenance - And importantly, there isn't really a parallell for hetrosexuality

Of course, 'sexual deviation' is perfectly normal as millions of people have shown repeatedly with overwhelming evidence and logic.

I'm jealous that gay people get to be open about their sexuality and have fun with it. Too many straight people are giant, no fun, sex-negative prudes.

Hey, I'm a gay and I'm giant xD
I'm also a no fun prude on most occasions.

[UCUMAY]

Artificial insemination is expensive like 30k an attempt. I have heard of gay couples who will do it the natural way but HATE it. Regardless they can still have natural babies. It's just not their preferred sex partner. Like as if UCDF tried to get it on with a guy. Not preferred and in that case not even likely.

The second to last sentence is offensive.

It's the truth from what I was reading.

[Ceannairceach]

Artificial insemination is expensive like 30k an attempt. I have heard of gay couples who will do it the natural way but HATE it. Regardless they can still have natural babies. It's just not their preferred sex partner. Like as if UCDF tried to get it on with a guy. Not preferred and in that case not even likely.

The second to last sentence is offensive.

How is it?

[Neo Art]

Which is sort of my point, as much as I hate agreeing with you. It's quite possible to have a civil rights movement without the hedonistic apsects of Pride, whether real of perceived. We need to emphasise how gays are the same as everyone else and perfectly normal, not how different we are. Sure, Prides had a use once, but not any more - and they've evolved into something else entirely to boot.

On the other hand, why does everything gay people do need necessarily be for the cause of advancing gay rights? Whether pride movements help or hurt civil rights developments is not in and of itself a necessity for its own validity.

[UCUMAY]

The second to last sentence is offensive.

How is it?

I'd like to know that too.

[UCDF]

\
None, but Martin Luther King Jr. didn't walk around the neighborhoods naked.

Nor to homosexuals. Your point being...?

People, HOMOSEXUAL =/= NATURALIST!

Neo-Art.

[Buffett and Colbert]

I'm undecided on the matter. There are things about me and my life as well as my feelings that could be used to indicate my sexuality was my choice. And others that could indicate otherwise.

The thing is, I don't see why it's a big deal whether its a choice or not. We don't discriminate against people who wear bowler hats. We don't discriminate against people who prefer Twilight over Harry Potter. We don't discriminate against people who have red drapes in their house. Or people who die their hair blue. Etc, etc.

[UCDF]

How is it?

I'd like to know that too.

"Like as if UCDF tried to get it on with a guy."

Don't use me as an example.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Which is sort of my point, as much as I hate agreeing with you. It's quite possible to have a civil rights movement without the hedonistic apsects of Pride, whether real of perceived. We need to emphasise how gays are the same as everyone else and perfectly normal, not how different we are. Sure, Prides had a use once, but not any more - and they've evolved into something else entirely to boot.

On the other hand, why does everything gay people do need necessarily be for the cause of advancing gay rights? Whether pride movements help or hurt civil rights developments is not in and of itself a necessity for its own validity.

Contrary to popular belief, gay people like to socialise at events where they might find other gay people.

[Ceannairceach]

I'm reminded of a quote a friend told me once...

"If homosexuality is a choice, then it is a disease that can be cured. If it is not, then it must be beaten out early on."

Something tells me that either way, bigots will be bigots...

[UCDF]

On the other hand, why does everything gay people do need necessarily be for the cause of advancing gay rights? Whether pride movements help or hurt civil rights developments is not in and of itself a necessity for its own validity.

Contrary to popular belief, gay people like to socialise at events where they might find other gay people.

Those gaytards.