Opinion on socialism?

[Sungai Pusat]

Label for any economic, social and religious system: 'Works best when not forced upon'

Which is why I don't think there's any reason for an authority/government to exist.

Then you obviously are against corporations? Because they're definitely an authority, and can easily fulfill the function of a government, except they're kept in power by those with the most buying power instead of traditional votes.

Well, I am against the coined system of corporations, though I don't mind if it is purely for appearance.

[The Parkus Empire]

Then you obviously are against corporations? Because they're definitely an authority, and can easily fulfill the function of a government, except they're kept in power by those with the most buying power instead of traditional votes.

Well, I am against the coined system of corporations, though I don't mind if it is purely for appearance.

But don't you think business with enough money and influence can largely amount to the same thing as a government?

[Sungai Pusat]

Well, I am against the coined system of corporations, though I don't mind if it is purely for appearance.

But don't you think business with enough money and influence can largely amount to the same thing as a government?

Well, technically, nothing would stop a business like that to establish a government. However, it is entirely voluntary as the people are allowed to leave the company boundaries if restrictions become taxing to them.

[The Parkus Empire]

But don't you think business with enough money and influence can largely amount to the same thing as a government?

Well, technically, nothing would stop a business like that to establish a government. However, it is entirely voluntary as the people are allowed to leave the company boundaries if restrictions become taxing to them.

Don't some governments forcibly prevent people from leaving? Couldn't large businesses do the same?

[Kingdom-democracy]

What do you guys think about socialism? Does it work? Does it not? Is it better than capitalism? communism? Any opinion or view about this economical structure.

Well Im a socialist a Liberal Democratic Socialists. Socialism does work and it can keep working it is the only way to get people completely out of proverty and never put them back into proverty. Some people say the 3rd world contrys are socialist but I beg to differ since the 3rd world contrys don't even begin to define socialism since socialism is The means of production controled by the people I don't see that in 3rd world contrys all I see there is capitalist exploiting the system. Is it better then capitalism? Yes way better it's the only system that will not exploite the worker or any part of the system. This means for the people awesome pay great benifits such as dentistry and healthcare. More affective perscription drugs are now legle because there are no more companys that will think that they will make like no money from the drug they are selling because of it being super affective. This is because the company dosnt get run by a multimillion-billionare that is in the capitalist system it is run by the people and socialism is for the benifit of human sociaty as a whole. Contrary to some people belifes socialism encourages freedom and discourages power by one person. Socialism works best when it's in direct-democracy compared to being in repusentitive democracy or in any kind of other government. I cannot say much about communism cause I'm not 100% sure about it.

[Aiestonia]

It seems to be working well for Sweden...

I live here.
And no it didn't.
When we were truly social democratic during the 70s, under that fucktard Palme we suffered from chronically weak economic growth, something that we've been trying to rectify especially by reducing the absurd differences in marginal tax rates.
For example; For a long time you actually ended with a greater net salary by having 35 000 instead of a 40 000 kronor montly salary. Why?
Because of the increase in tax rates that came with the increase in personal income were so idiotically unproportional.
During a couple of years during the 70s startup companies had to pay 173% effectual tax rates. (The summarized tax rate for "all" taxes, fees and jibberish).

Ever since the 90s we've been liberalising our mixed economy, one very important thing we've done is to have revamped our entire pension system - so that our "baby boomer shock" won't become as drastic as that of many other European countries.
It's thanks to that that our economic growth has picked up and been so strong in the recent 20 years.
Not thanks to social democracy.
Just, please - don't bring us up as an example of being properous because of our social democratic streaks.
That's nothing short of historical revisionism.

[Sungai Pusat]

Well, technically, nothing would stop a business like that to establish a government. However, it is entirely voluntary as the people are allowed to leave the company boundaries if restrictions become taxing to them.

Don't some governments forcibly prevent people from leaving? Couldn't large businesses do the same?

Lemme see. Businesses want to make large money, right? Since they have to pay their way through it, the outcome could happen to the tune of this:

Business A, B and C are formed.
They own three plots of land where person A, B, C, D, E and F live in. A and B live in the first plot owned by Business A, and.... well, you get it.
Business A could either get an agreement through contract on Persons A and B to stay or they could just build a giant fence.
Business B can do likewise.
But, Business A makes contracts, Business B builds a giant fence.
Now, Business A makes a contract on a piece of paper, costing less than a dollar. Let us say paper is rare, so one sheet is worth 10 cents, which is still cheaper than most things. That and the time to think about it would not be too long: They only have to place what both parties agree on. If they held a poll, the total cost would probably add up to a thousand or two. And there is no extra expenditure after that.
However, Business B builds a fence. Now, not only is the overall cost going to end up alot more than the cost for contracting, there will also be an additional cost in periodic payments for maintainence of the fence. And it also signals to others that entering in automatically means that they won't be able to exit again.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[Bottle]

What do you guys think about socialism? Does it work? Does it not? Is it better than capitalism? communism? Any opinion or view about this economical structure.

Socialism seems like a pretty nice system, in theory. Better than pure capitalism or pure communism.

[The Parkus Empire]

Don't some governments forcibly prevent people from leaving? Couldn't large businesses do the same?

Lemme see. Businesses want to make large money, right? Since they have to pay their way through it, the outcome could happen to the tune of this:

Business A, B and C are formed.
They own three plots of land where person A, B, C, D, E and F live in. A and B live in the first plot owned by Business A, and.... well, you get it.
Business A could either get an agreement through contract on Persons A and B to stay or they could just build a giant fence.
Business B can do likewise.
But, Business A makes contracts, Business B builds a giant fence.
Now, Business A makes a contract on a piece of paper, costing less than a dollar. Let us say paper is rare, so one sheet is worth 10 cents, which is still cheaper than most things. That and the time to think about it would not be too long: They only have to place what both parties agree on. If they held a poll, the total cost would probably add up to a thousand or two. And there is no extra expenditure after that.
However, Business B builds a fence. Now, not only is the overall cost going to end up alot more than the cost for contracting, there will also be an additional cost in periodic payments for maintainence of the fence. And it also signals to others that entering in automatically means that they won't be able to exit again.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

No one to enforce A's contract.

B more than makes-up for the cost of the fence (and guns) by forcing the occupants to work as slaves, which are extremely cheap, and thus produce extremely cheap products, making B everyone's favorite supplier. Also, B doesn't have to worry about people entering because it can force its occupants to reproduce under threat of violence.

[Jakaragua]

What do you guys think about socialism? Does it work? Does it not? Is it better than capitalism? communism? Any opinion or view about this economical structure.

Well Im a socialist a Liberal Democratic Socialists. I cannot say much about communism cause I'm not 100% sure about it.

To be honest, I get the idea that you agree with Communism but you think it's a bit too authoritarian, so you call yourself a "democratic socialist". I was like this also...

[Sungai Pusat]

Lemme see. Businesses want to make large money, right? Since they have to pay their way through it, the outcome could happen to the tune of this:

Business A, B and C are formed.
They own three plots of land where person A, B, C, D, E and F live in. A and B live in the first plot owned by Business A, and.... well, you get it.
Business A could either get an agreement through contract on Persons A and B to stay or they could just build a giant fence.
Business B can do likewise.
But, Business A makes contracts, Business B builds a giant fence.
Now, Business A makes a contract on a piece of paper, costing less than a dollar. Let us say paper is rare, so one sheet is worth 10 cents, which is still cheaper than most things. That and the time to think about it would not be too long: They only have to place what both parties agree on. If they held a poll, the total cost would probably add up to a thousand or two. And there is no extra expenditure after that.
However, Business B builds a fence. Now, not only is the overall cost going to end up alot more than the cost for contracting, there will also be an additional cost in periodic payments for maintainence of the fence. And it also signals to others that entering in automatically means that they won't be able to exit again.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

No one to enforce A's contract.

Um, no one to enforce A's contracts? If the people weren't satisfied with the contract that they'll leave, how does it make sense that now, with no enforcement, they will not do as it says?

B more than makes-up for the cost of the fence (and guns) by forcing the occupants to work as slaves, which are extremely cheap, and thus produce extremely cheap products, making B everyone's favorite supplier.

You do realise that for slavery, you actually do have to use extra money to cough up to make that work, correct? Of course, the fencing. Of course, even that won't stop someone in a situation as bad as slavery.

Also, B doesn't have to worry about people entering because it can force its occupants to reproduce under threat of violence.

And then what? Make the child work until death, which'll probably be like a few years? I don't know what business sense that is.

[Slovenskiot]

What do you guys think about socialism? Does it work? Does it not? Is it better than capitalism? communism? Any opinion or view about this economical structure.

I dont think any system works without parts of the other, socialism and comunism will never work since you dont have the fight for hapiness not the motivation to do better, because they,re is nothing to gain.
But capitalism needs a fair base, everyone needs to have the change to become who you wanna be, this means i do believe in some parts of socialisme like the right on education and protection ect.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Well Im a socialist a Liberal Democratic Socialists. I cannot say much about communism cause I'm not 100% sure about it.

To be honest, I get the idea that you agree with Communism but you think it's a bit too authoritarian, so you call yourself a "democratic socialist". I was like this also...

You know, the vanguard of the proletariat was a leninist aberration. Karl Marks gave predictions, not prescriptions - maybe communists should just wait patiently. Trying to actively enforce Marxism almost always results in disaster, and it is by no means as efficient in practice as regulated capitalism.

Even with the harsh recession living standards have on average risen, organised violence is decreasing, gdp per capita has risen; and there are viable solutions to counter harsh inequalities. Communism is a completely redundant and futile aspiration.

[Jakaragua]

To be honest, I get the idea that you agree with Communism but you think it's a bit too authoritarian, so you call yourself a "democratic socialist". I was like this also...

You know, the vanguard of the proletariat was a leninist aberration. Karl Marks gave predictions, not prescriptions - maybe communists should just wait patiently. Trying to actively enforce Marxism almost always results in disaster, and it is by no means as efficient in practice as regulated capitalism.

Even with the harsh recession living standards have on average risen, organised violence is decreasing, gdp per capita has risen; and there are viable solutions to counter harsh inequalities. Communism is a completely redundant and futile aspiration.

Viable solutions are temporary concessions in my eyes, they do not fix what is inherently wrong with Capitalism.

Violence is a tool. There are situations in which violence is appropriate, and there are situations in which it is not. Absolute stances on violence can only be wrong.

Our goal is to increase the worker's class conciousness, this doesn't need to be a violent act.

[Aiestonia]

Socialism is an anachronistic absudity, in my eyes.

[The Parkus Empire]

Um, no one to enforce A's contracts? If the people weren't satisfied with the contract that they'll leave, how does it make sense that now, with no enforcement, they will not do as it says?

Then the paper is pointless, isn't it?

You do realise that for slavery, you actually do have to use extra money to cough up to make that work, correct? Of course, the fencing. Of course, even that won't stop someone in a situation as bad as slavery.

Chains and walls would probably be more likely, 'tis true.

And then what? Make the child work until death, which'll probably be like a few years? I don't know what business sense that is.

Not to death, no. Who said you had to work slaves to death at an early age when keeping them alive through adulthood would be more profitable?

For Christ's sake, surely you know that slavery has been used historically, and is still used today, with profitable effect?

[EnragedMaldivians]

You know, the vanguard of the proletariat was a leninist aberration. Karl Marks gave predictions, not prescriptions - maybe communists should just wait patiently. Trying to actively enforce Marxism almost always results in disaster, and it is by no means as efficient in practice as regulated capitalism.

Even with the harsh recession living standards have on average risen, organised violence is decreasing, gdp per capita has risen; and there are viable solutions to counter harsh inequalities. Communism is a completely redundant and futile aspiration.

Viable solutions are temporary concessions in my eyes, they do not fix what is inherently wrong with Capitalism.

Violence is a tool. There are situations in which violence is appropriate, and there are situations in which it is not. Absolute stances on violence can only be wrong.
Our goal is to increase the worker's class conciousness, this doesn't need to be a violent act.

I suggest you read Gramsci. There will never be an international workers consciousness

Secondly, capitalism is better in terms of reducing absoloute poverty. It is more important for me that no one who should have to suffer the indignity of absolouete poverty/hunger/insecurity due to circumstance- than making sure that everyone is equal. They are not, not in ability, not in determination.

[Volnotova]

What do you guys think about socialism? Does it work?

It can work.

Is it better than capitalism? communism?

In what sense? Again, you are not asking a real question here as you do not provide any goals or criteria.

[The Electronic Future]

Well, technically, nothing would stop a business like that to establish a government. However, it is entirely voluntary as the people are allowed to leave the company boundaries if restrictions become taxing to them.

Don't some governments forcibly prevent people from leaving? Couldn't large businesses do the same?

yea return to feudalism.

[Lelvona]

Death to Imperialism,Death to Stupidity namely big corporation. I LOVE YOU SMALL ENTERPRISE!!!!! RISE OF SOCIALISM!

[Concordeia]

What do you guys think about socialism? Does it work? Does it not? Is it better than capitalism? communism? Any opinion or view about this economical structure.

Depends on the type of socialism. On the one hand you have the centralized state-run command economy that everyone knows and hates, while on the other end of the spectrum you have decentralized businesses which are owned and run collectively by the workers themselves with little to no state interference. I favor the latter.

[Sibirsky]

Do we really need yet another?

[Concordeia]

One thing that I have noticed in NS is that if you start with a social mixed economy and continue to institute left-leaning economic policies (eg "this will be good except for the tax hike" choices on issues), your private sector dies.

It works much better if you build your economy up with hard-line capitalist policies THEN fix the issues that capitalism causes with social policies to restrict industry.

That said, I consider myself a social democrat on the economy. The free market system is useful for building wealth, but it's not perfect. You don't want a market where corporations have all the power and consumers have none. That's why you have to have strong regulation (eg, anti-competition laws, environmental regulations, some trade protection - though I would consider myself mostly free trade with regards to developed countries) to ensure your economy can still thrive.

^ Essentially this.

[Concordeia]

Do we really need yet another?

You're already busy debating the issue in one thread, Sibersky. Why not just state your opinion once and then go?

[Greater Tezdrian]

Socialism, along with communism, is a cancer to humanity that infests and destroys all it touches. Not that capitalism is a beacon of progress however. As an economic system, corporatism is far superior.