Worst Leaders

[Kingdom-democracy]

Unfortunately...

Its not a lasting economy because it's completely unstable as you war with other countrys trade gets restricked and then great depressions start to happen then the country has no money after the war cause they spent so much on the war employing people which was the only thing that helped the economy. On the other hand a warless,self-sustanible economy is completely stable and will last just about forever and this dosent mean you need to take out the military it just means you need to build enough wepons and keep uptodate on current teconogy and your economy will be find for as long as no war is happening Defence is the best offence! BTW The worst leader was Hiter in my book he would have been the best in history though if he didn't lest power consume him and force him to kill people he didn't like but you know whatever the people elceted him and let him do what he want so what could they have done. Hitler sucks. I'm not that good at remembering leaders names so I'll just do 1 since Im good in war history but only do ok in other history.

[The Archregimancy]

4 Vlad the Impaler

I apologise if it looks like I'm stalking you across threads, Omensa - I've only just realised that my latest objection on historical grounds is directed against someone that I was objecting to on historical grounds in another thread, and it's unfair to single you out given that you're not the only person to nominate Vlad III Țepeș, but...

We do all realise that A) he's essentially a national hero in Romania for standing up to the Ottomans, B) that his reputation for mass-impalement and extreme sadistic cruelty was largely the result of an unverified propaganda pamphlet written by his enemy, the Hungarian king Matthew Corvinus and C) Vlad was hardly unique in the 15th-century Balkans in using impalement as a means of punishment anyway.

True story: I've eaten in the restaurant that now lies inside the house where Vlad III "the Impaler" Țepeș was born....

[The Archregimancy]

How was Cixi that bad?

She managed to oversee several wars, famines and uprisings; almost single-handedly drove the Qing Empire into complete submission and probably put China back several decades in doing so, given how her mismanagement caused the 1911 Revolution and thus its effects, namely the Japanese invasion, the warlord period, and the rise of Mao Tse-Tung.

While not disputing your basic assessment of Cixi as a thoroughly nasty and incompetent piece of work, it's worth noting that she died in November 1908, two days after the enthronement of Pu Yi, the last emperor.

The Dowager Empress responsible for the 1911-12 abdication of the Imperial dynasty was Longyu, the consort of the Guangxu Emperor, not the very dead Cixi.

[Frenca]

She managed to oversee several wars, famines and uprisings; almost single-handedly drove the Qing Empire into complete submission and probably put China back several decades in doing so, given how her mismanagement caused the 1911 Revolution and thus its effects, namely the Japanese invasion, the warlord period, and the rise of Mao Tse-Tung.

While not disputing your basic assessment of Cixi as a thoroughly nasty and incompetent piece of work, it's worth noting that she died in November 1908, two days after the enthronement of Pu Yi, the last emperor.

The Dowager Empress responsible for the 1911-12 abdication of the Imperial dynasty was Longyu, the consort of the Guangxu Emperor, not the very dead Cixi.

He's probably saying that the revolution was caused by her (Cixi's) incompetence.

[Angleter]

She managed to oversee several wars, famines and uprisings; almost single-handedly drove the Qing Empire into complete submission and probably put China back several decades in doing so, given how her mismanagement caused the 1911 Revolution and thus its effects, namely the Japanese invasion, the warlord period, and the rise of Mao Tse-Tung.

While not disputing your basic assessment of Cixi as a thoroughly nasty and incompetent piece of work, it's worth noting that she died in November 1908, two days after the enthronement of Pu Yi, the last emperor.

The Dowager Empress responsible for the 1911-12 abdication of the Imperial dynasty was Longyu, the consort of the Guangxu Emperor, not the very dead Cixi.

Yes, but it seems to me that by 1908 China was inexorably heading for a revolution- if reactionary politics wasn't ingrained in the Imperial court before, it most certainly was after 47 years of Cixi, and Longyu was effectively her protégée.

[Frenca]

While not disputing your basic assessment of Cixi as a thoroughly nasty and incompetent piece of work, it's worth noting that she died in November 1908, two days after the enthronement of Pu Yi, the last emperor.

The Dowager Empress responsible for the 1911-12 abdication of the Imperial dynasty was Longyu, the consort of the Guangxu Emperor, not the very dead Cixi.

Yes, but it seems to me that by 1908 China was inexorably heading for a revolution- if reactionary politics wasn't ingrained in the Imperial court before, it most certainly was after 47 years of Cixi, and Longyu was effectively her protégée.

I'm pretty sure you can compare Cixi to a cult leader and Longyu, Tongzhi, and Guangxu her followers.

[The Archregimancy]

While not disputing your basic assessment of Cixi as a thoroughly nasty and incompetent piece of work, it's worth noting that she died in November 1908, two days after the enthronement of Pu Yi, the last emperor.

The Dowager Empress responsible for the 1911-12 abdication of the Imperial dynasty was Longyu, the consort of the Guangxu Emperor, not the very dead Cixi.

Yes, but it seems to me that by 1908 China was inexorably heading for a revolution- if reactionary politics wasn't ingrained in the Imperial court before, it most certainly was after 47 years of Cixi, and Longyu was effectively her protégée.

Fair enough - my apologies for the confusion.

[Coccygia]

He probably didn't do that, you know.

He used Christians for lanterns.

Well, I'm not saying he was right...but I'm not saying he was wrong either, if you get my drift.

[Calenhardon]

10. Mao Zedong
9. Joseph Stalin
8. Adolf Hitler
7. Abraham Lincoln
6. Nelson Mandela
5. Theodore Roosevelt
4. Lyndon Johnson
3. Franklin D. Roosevelt
2. Jimmy Carter
1. Barack Obama

[Coccygia]

Who do you think are the top 10 worst world leaders, past or present, for a real world country? The country may not exist anymore.
1. Adolph Hitler
2. Khmer Rouge (I like elephants!)
3. Kim Jung Il (He gets fresh lobster daily!)
4. Saddam Hussein
5. Vlad Dracula
6. Kaiser Wilhelm
7. Emperor Hirohito
8. Emperor Nero
9. Kim Jung Un (Not a leader yet, but said mean stuff!)
10. Not President O-J! He's great!

i know hitler was a terrible man but he was a great leader. he lead germany out of depression and built them to a world power in only a few decade. so i the leader perspective he was great.....but a terrible person

And then he lead them into total destruction and defeat in 6 years. Whether someone's a great leader depends where he's leading people. (Jeez, there's always somebody who feels it necessary to stick up for Hitler isn't there? And somebody else here is defending freaking Dracula? What, nobody's gonna say a good word for Pol Pot?)

10. Mao Zedong
9. Joseph Stalin
8. Adolf Hitler
7. Abraham Lincoln
6. Nelson Mandela
5. Theodore Roosevelt
4. Lyndon Johnson
3. Franklin D. Roosevelt
2. Jimmy Carter
1. Barack Obama

I think you left out Winston Churchill and Queen Elizabeth II. Or how about Olof Palme? [no pun intended]

[Islamic Hazarastan]

1. George W. Bush
2. Saddam Hussein
3. Adolf Hitler
4. Zia Ul-Haq
5. Ronald Reagan
6. Pol Pot
7. Mullah Omar
8. Augusto Pinochet
9. Francisco Franco
10. Reza Shah Pahlevi

[Oterro]

1. George W. Bush
2. Saddam Hussein
3. Adolf Hitler
4. Zia Ul-Haq
5. Ronald Reagan
6. Pol Pot
7. Mullah Omar
8. Augusto Pinochet
9. Francisco Franco
10. Reza Shah Pahlevi

I wouldn't say that to anyone Jewish.

Also, why no Stalin?

[Islamic Hazarastan]

I wouldn't say that to anyone Jewish.

Eh? Why?

Also, why no Stalin?

Oh, damn, must've forgotten. Not used to hating Stalin
I'd put him 4th, though.

[EnragedMaldivians]

1. George W. Bush
2. Saddam Hussein
3. Adolf Hitler
4. Zia Ul-Haq
5. Ronald Reagan
6. Pol Pot
7. Mullah Omar
8. Augusto Pinochet
9. Francisco Franco
10. Reza Shah Pahlevi

I am curious as to what your opinion is on the late Benazair Bhutto? I can understand why you would hate Zia Ul-Haq.

Eh? Why?

George Bush was a terrible leader, but he did not commit a genocide or a holocaust. Not on purpose anyways.

[Islamic Hazarastan]

I am curious as to what your opinion is on the late Benazair Bhutto?

I support her party's ideals, and I do like the fact that she was our first female PM.
However, the level of corruption she and her despicable husband partook in (in Zardari's case, still do) make it impossible for me to support them.

[EnragedMaldivians]

I am curious as to what your opinion is on the late Benazair Bhutto?

I support her party's ideals, and I do like the fact that she was our first female PM.
However, the level of corruption she and her despicable husband partook in (in Zardari's case, still do) make it impossible for me to support them.

Fair point - I actually read her book, "reconciliation"; it was a good read minus typical political self indulgence.

[Eskandapolis]

1.Pol-Pot: I'm not Cambodian, not that much of an oportunist, and intellectual-ish
Mugabe: He rules one of the worst African country, with a fucking big AIDS epidemy, while we wastes millions in his birthday parties
Hitler: Extermination camps + WW II? Nah, Before the war and without the camps, maybe he could have been a good, or at least passable, leaders
Stalin: Purges, much more to say? Good economy, but some horrible civil rights
Kim (any generation): I don't want the state to tell me how to cut my hair, having one TV channel, practically living in conditions of the 12th C, and ultra-militarised
Mao: Great leap BACKWARDS
Idi Amin and Micombero: For killing a huge part of their population being presidents of almost-neighbouring countries
Qaddafi/Ahmahdinejad: Ultra islamic, warmongers and total despots
Vlad Teppes: I'd rather be purged by Stalin, but did great on defending his country from the Turks, I wouldn't like to piss him off
Mohamed Siad Barre: For provoking the Somalian civil war
Ceaucescu

[Calenhardon]

10. Mao Zedong
9. Joseph Stalin
8. Adolf Hitler
7. Abraham Lincoln
6. Nelson Mandela
5. Theodore Roosevelt
4. Lyndon Johnson
3. Franklin D. Roosevelt
2. Jimmy Carter
1. Barack Obama

I think you left out Winston Churchill and Queen Elizabeth II. Or how about Olof Palme? [no pun intended][/quote]

Sorry, I was momentarily possessed by Glenn Beck. Don't worry, my brother made me watch an episode of Jon Stewart and I'm better now. Probably the only US President I would consider for a slot on a worst leaders list would be Andrew Jackson, mostly because of the Trail of Tears and his general treatment of Native Americans. Who the hell is Olof Palme?

[Angleter]

I wouldn't say that to anyone Jewish.

Eh? Why?

Bush worse than Hitler?

Also, I can't for the life of me think why on Earth you'd call Ronald Reagan worse than Pol Pot- who killed a quarter of his nation's population and sent it back several centuries in technology in just four years.

[Islamic Hazarastan]

I support her party's ideals, and I do like the fact that she was our first female PM.
However, the level of corruption she and her despicable husband partook in (in Zardari's case, still do) make it impossible for me to support them.

Fair point - I actually read her book, "reconciliation"; it was a good read minus typical political self indulgence.

I didn't bother. It's just typical politician's trash. No politician is worth supporting in Pakistan. They are either degenerate and corrupt, or drunk on religious insanity.

[Mike the Progressive]

Barack Hussein Obama just for the lolz.

[EnragedMaldivians]

1.Pol-Pot: I'm not Cambodian, not that much of an oportunist, and intellectual-ish
Mugabe: He rules one of the worst African country, with a fucking big AIDS epidemy, while we wastes millions in his birthday parties
Hitler: Extermination camps + WW II? Nah, Before the war and without the camps, maybe he could have been a good, or at least passable, leaders
Stalin: Purges, much more to say? Good economy, but some horrible civil rights
Kim (any generation): I don't want the state to tell me how to cut my hair, having one TV channel, practically living in conditions of the 12th C, and ultra-militarised
Mao: Great leap BACKWARDS
Idi Amin and Micombero: For killing a huge part of their population being presidents of almost-neighbouring countries
Qaddafi/Ahmahdinejad: Ultra islamic, warmongers and total despots
Vlad Teppes: I'd rather be purged by Stalin, but did great on defending his country from the Turks, I wouldn't like to piss him off
Mohamed Siad Barre: For provoking the Somalian civil war
Ceaucescu

I think comparing Qaddafi to Ahmadenijad is an insult to Ahmadenijad. (who I am no fan of)

Qaddafi is in a league by himself.

[Islamic Hazarastan]

Eh? Why?

Bush worse than Hitler?

Ah, that's why. Well, Bush was worse for us Muslims.

Also, I can't for the life of me think why on Earth you'd call Ronald Reagan worse than Pol Pot- who killed a quarter of his nation's population and sent it back several centuries in technology in just four years.

Reagan screwed up other countries. Pol Pot, while awful, kept it in his own country.

[Eskandapolis]

1. George W. Bush
2. Saddam Hussein
3. Adolf Hitler
4. Zia Ul-Haq
5. Ronald Reagan
6. Pol Pot
7. Mullah Omar
8. Augusto Pinochet
9. Francisco Franco
10. Reza Shah Pahlevi

You incluede REAGAN, Pinochet, Franco, What?
Pinochet reconstructed a country that was in a terrible economic situation (I know of this first hand, both my parents lived in Chile in the Allende-Pinochet years)
Franco wasn't at all a bad leader
Reagan?what, he got in some wars, but being higher than megalomaniac megakiller Pot? Reagonomics were so much better than Pol's reform, I'm sure Brezhnev and Andropov had nothing to do with the US applying the Reagan Doctrine

[EnragedMaldivians]

Bush worse than Hitler?

Ah, that's why. Well, Bush was worse for us Muslims.

Also, I can't for the life of me think why on Earth you'd call Ronald Reagan worse than Pol Pot- who killed a quarter of his nation's population and sent it back several centuries in technology in just four years.

Reagan screwed up other countries. Pol Pot, while awful, kept it in his own country.

Meh, I think any country as powerful as the U.S would go around messing with other peoples countries. Muslim, catholic, American, Chinese Ottomon or whatnot. That is the nature of the international system.

You would have preffered Afghanistan to have been part of the Russian sphere then?