Worst Leaders

[Islamic Hazarastan]

Meh, I think any country as powerful as the U.S would go around messing with other peoples countries. Muslim, catholic, American, Chinese Ottomon or whatnot. That is the nature of the international system.

You would have preffered Afghanistan to have been part of the Russian sphere then?

At least the Russians would've made it secular, and not have supported the mental case Taliban.

[Angleter]

Bush worse than Hitler?

Ah, that's why. Well, Bush was worse for us Muslims.

Well, Hitler did collaborate with Iraq and Iran, and the Crimean Tatars did like him more than Stalin...

Also, I can't for the life of me think why on Earth you'd call Ronald Reagan worse than Pol Pot- who killed a quarter of his nation's population and sent it back several centuries in technology in just four years.

Reagan screwed up other countries. Pol Pot while awful, kept it in his own country.

Reagan didn't cause any country to go through anything nearly as bad as the Democratic Kampuchea. Afghanistan became an Islamic state a few years before it was due (assuming that 1991 would've brought a Somali-esque situation to a Soviet Afghanistan), Grenada's communist coup was overturned, and Nicaragua got a civil war. On a better note, the Cold War ended and the Soviet bloc collapsed.

[Coccygia]

I think you left out Winston Churchill and Queen Elizabeth II. Or how about Olof Palme? (no pun intended)

Sorry, I was momentarily possessed by Glenn Beck. Don't worry, my brother made me watch an episode of Jon Stewart and I'm better now. Probably the only US President I would consider for a slot on a worst leaders list would be Andrew Jackson, mostly because of the Trail of Tears and his general treatment of Native Americans. Who the hell is Olof Palme?

Palme was the Prime Minister of Sweden and leader of the Social Democrats. Reagan once said to him, "What do you want to do? Abolish the rich?" He responded , "No, Mr. President, I want to abolish the poor."

And this pissed Reagan off so much he had Palme whacked. (He always was a poor sport.)

BTW Calenhardon, watch your brackets when you quote.

[Islamic Hazarastan]

Well, Hitler did collaborate with Iraq and Iran, and the Crimean Tatars did like him more than Stalin...

I guess so. Bush has caused us more immediate problems than Hitler, it's only natural that we'd think Bush is worse.

[Oterro]

Well, Hitler did collaborate with Iraq and Iran, and the Crimean Tatars did like him more than Stalin...

I guess so. Bush has caused us more immediate problems than Hitler, it's only natural that we'd think Bush is worse.

Not true. I have Irish friends who would say Hitler was worse than the many English monarchs that have abused and raped his country, and I would say the same as a Scott.

[Eskandapolis]

Well, Hitler did collaborate with Iraq and Iran, and the Crimean Tatars did like him more than Stalin...

I guess so. Bush has caused us more immediate problems than Hitler, it's only natural that we'd think Bush is worse.

What? are we in WW3?no... whatta shame

[Islamic Hazarastan]

I guess so. Bush has caused us more immediate problems than Hitler, it's only natural that we'd think Bush is worse.

Not true. I have Irish friends who would say Hitler was worse than the many English monarchs that have abused and raped his country, and I would say the same as a Scott.

But is Ireland still being raped as a result of British imperialism?

[Oterro]

Not true. I have Irish friends who would say Hitler was worse than the many English monarchs that have abused and raped his country, and I would say the same as a Scott.

But is Ireland still being raped as a result of British imperialism?

I guess it depends what Irishman you ask, doesn't it? Some would say the very presence of British territory on their island is a grave insult. Others are so sick of watching people die they just don't care anymore.

[The Matthew Islands]

Not true. I have Irish friends who would say Hitler was worse than the many English monarchs that have abused and raped his country, and I would say the same as a Scott.

But is Ireland still being raped as a result of British imperialism?

No, know its French and German imperialism. Sorry, the EU.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Meh, I think any country as powerful as the U.S would go around messing with other peoples countries. Muslim, catholic, American, Chinese Ottomon or whatnot. That is the nature of the international system.

You would have preffered Afghanistan to have been part of the Russian sphere then?

At least the Russians would've made it secular, and not have supported the mental case Taliban.

I'm sorry, I'm trying to digest the irony of a Muslim preffering that an imperialist foreign power forcibly secularised an Islamic country.

We don't get your type in the Maldives and wer'e not exactly as f--d up as Pakistan (no offense). Though secularism is a dirty word in Pakistan as well to be fair.

[Laerod]

Not true. I have Irish friends who would say Hitler was worse than the many English monarchs that have abused and raped his country, and I would say the same as a Scott.

But is Ireland still being raped as a result of British imperialism?

Quite irrelevant. The only way you can claim that Bush was worse than Hitler is by attaching a higher value to Bush's victims than to Hitler's, a rather barbaric thing to do.

[Islamic Hazarastan]

But is Ireland still being raped as a result of British imperialism?

I guess it depends what Irishman you ask, doesn't it? Some would say the very presence of British territory on their island is a grave insult. Others are so sick of watching people die they just don't care anymore.

Bush's expansion of the wars in the Middle East lead to a rise in terrorist activity. When he invaded Afghanistan, he pushed the Taliban into Pakistan. This has caused terrible suffering and misery to us, and has made life unlivable for many people in remote areas.Even in the big cities, you can't go to a large gathering, concert, or religious procession without risking death or injury through Taliban bombs... Hitler is barely relevant to us.

[Islamic Hazarastan]

I'm sorry, I'm trying to digest the irony of a Muslim preffering that an imperialist foreign power forcibly secularised an Islamic country.

Oh, believe me, I'd prefer a truly Islamic country, because that'd be true justice. However, the type of islam in Afghanistan was killing Afghani Muslims, and secularism is safer for minorities in such circumstances.

We don't get your type in the Maldives and wer'e not exactly as f--d up as Pakistan (no offense). Though secularism is a dirty word in Pakistan as well to be fair.

Wahhabis are gaining a foothold and minorities are getting more and more threatened. That's the only reason why it's a dirty word. Jinnah himself wanted a secular Pakistan.

Quite irrelevant. The only way you can claim that Bush was worse than Hitler is by attaching a higher value to Bush's victims than to Hitler's, a rather barbaric thing to do.

Fact is, the average Pakistani would find Bush worse than Hitler, not because of body count, but because of the effect his policies had on his life.

[Thurask]

These are just 20th century.

1. Josef Stalin
2. Adolf Hitler
3. Mao Zedong
4. Pol Pot
5. Augusto Pinochet
6. Kim Il-Sung
7. Saddam Hussein
8. Idi Amin
9. Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
10. Robert Mugabe

[EnragedMaldivians]

I'm sorry, I'm trying to digest the irony of a Muslim preffering that an imperialist foreign power forcibly secularised an Islamic country. [/quotes]
Oh, believe me, I'd prefer a truly Islamic country, because that'd be true justice. However, the type of islam in Afghanistan was killing Afghani Muslims, and secularism is safer for minorities in such circumstances.

Wahhabis are gaining a foothold and minorities are getting more and more threatened. That's the only reason why it's a dirty word. Jinnah himself wanted a secular Pakistan.

There seems to be a considerable amount of support for the blasphemy law, judging by the reaction many members of the public are giving that man who murdered one of your governors. And many seem to want that poor christian lady who allegedly blasphemed the prophets name to die.

Alas, it has been made a dirty word in the Maldives. I don't even have a problem with mild sharia law as a crime preventing measure, except for wahhabi insistence on killing apostates which is an obvious problem for me; well that and draconian measures on women. O
ur president disagrees with their vision (he is quite secularist), but is completely incompetent to keep these lunatics and their sympathisers for moulding the trajectory of our cultural direction, so I will posit him (Mohammad Nasheed) as an ineffective leader but by no means comparable to the likes of stalin or hitlet, or even george bush.

The Wahhabi rise is also being fueled by Saudi oil revenue - which is why it is imperative that the Americans switch to green technology. Their stubbornness on that issue is beyond idiotic.

[Koffiedik]

8. Augusto Pinochet

You incluede REAGAN, Pinochet, Franco, What?
Pinochet reconstructed a country that was in a terrible economic situation (I know of this first hand, both my parents lived in Chile in the Allende-Pinochet years)

Yeah, just like Stalin?

[Eskandapolis]

You incluede REAGAN, Pinochet, Franco, What?
Pinochet reconstructed a country that was in a terrible economic situation (I know of this first hand, both my parents lived in Chile in the Allende-Pinochet years)

Yeah, just like Stalin?

Hey, Chile couldn't handle more of Allende's politics, and his cabinet's corruption (I want to make it clear, Salvador is my political hero), but Pinochet didnt order massive murders of racial and ethnic minorities, and everyone who was rich

[Eskandapolis]

I'm sorry, I'm trying to digest the irony of a Muslim preffering that an imperialist foreign power forcibly secularised an Islamic country.

Oh, believe me, I'd prefer a truly Islamic country, because that'd be true justice. However, the type of islam in Afghanistan was killing Afghani Muslims, and secularism is safer for minorities in such circumstances.
quote]
Yeah, I just remember some forced secularization processes, Russia? Mao?

[Islamic Hazarastan]

Yeah, I just remember some forced secularization processes, Russia? Mao?

China and Russia are a hell of a lot better than Afghanistan these days.

[Koffiedik]

Yeah ok, i exaggerated. But it's no surprise Pinochet's name turns up in this thread, right?

[EnragedMaldivians]

Oh, believe me, I'd prefer a truly Islamic country, because that'd be true justice. However, the type of islam in Afghanistan was killing Afghani Muslims, and secularism is safer for minorities in such circumstances.
quote]
Yeah, I just remember some forced secularization processes, Russia? Mao?

To be fair, secularization is not really the same thing as violently suppressing any expression of religion - just making sure that government does not enforce one religion over another.

[St George of England]

Yeah, I just remember some forced secularization processes, Russia? Mao?

China and Russia are a hell of a lot better than Afghanistan these days.

Everywhere's a hell of a lot better than Afghanistan these days.

Except Glasgow.

[Eskandapolis]

Oh, believe me, I'd prefer a truly Islamic country, because that'd be true justice. However, the type of islam in Afghanistan was killing Afghani Muslims, and secularism is safer for minorities in such circumstances.
quote]
Yeah, I just remember some forced secularization processes, Russia? Mao?

To be fair, secularization is not really the same thing as violently suppressing any expression of religion - just making sure that government does not enforce one religion over another.

We all know the Russians weren't just going to "separe Church and State"

[Eskandapolis]

China and Russia are a hell of a lot better than Afghanistan these days.

Everywhere's a hell of a lot better than Afghanistan these days.

Except Glasgow.

Maybe except Somalia

[Kruplyan]

10. Mao Zedong
9. Joseph Stalin
8. Adolf Hitler
7. Abraham Lincoln
6. Nelson Mandela
5. Theodore Roosevelt
4. Lyndon Johnson
3. Franklin D. Roosevelt
2. Jimmy Carter
1. Barack Obama

your country is Democratic Socialist, but the top 3 worst people on your list were exactly that....

1:Adolf Hitler ("Take over Europe, check. Gas a million Jews, check. Start big ass war, check)
2:Josef Stalin ("I make shitty country worse, and if you disagree with me, *boom headshot*")
3:Kim Jon Il (The 21st century offspring of Stalin and Tojo, dumbed down just a touch)