Free market and roads: Greece Vs USA

[Sibirsky]

Sibirsky, I don't currently have any data regarding the extent of government influence in roads. I presume they do dictate things such as speed limits and lane sizes and other similar violations of private property rights for the road companies. Still it's more of a "Free market" approach then exists in most places.

To what extent would you support road privatization? Should the government be able to set speed limits on leased roads?

Good question. I suppose, as the lessor of the road, the government can put the terms in the lease. Either we (the gov't) will continue to set speed limits, or it can grant that power to the lessee. Block does not propose these public private partnerships, but full privatization.

I wish I had time to read the 476 page texts. As far as speed limits, the roads would likely have to be insured, at least liability insurance for accidents and things like that. Ultimately, the higher the speed limit the higher the premiums, and the higher the tolls. So demand will set the speed limit. In partnership with the road owners and insurance companies.

[Natapoc]

Sibirsky, I don't currently have any data regarding the extent of government influence in roads. I presume they do dictate things such as speed limits and lane sizes and other similar violations of private property rights for the road companies. Still it's more of a "Free market" approach then exists in most places.

To what extent would you support road privatization? Should the government be able to set speed limits on leased roads?

Good question. I suppose, as the lessor of the road, the government can put the terms in the lease. Either we (the gov't) will continue to set speed limits, or it can grant that power to the lessee. Block does not propose these public private partnerships, but full privatization.

I wish I had time to read the 476 page texts. As far as speed limits, the roads would likely have to be insured, at least liability insurance for accidents and things like that. Ultimately, the higher the speed limit the higher the premiums, and the higher the tolls. So demand will set the speed limit. In partnership with the road owners and insurance companies.

Ahh lawsuits against road companies as a mechanism of determining speed limits. Interesting idea.

[Central Slavia]

I haven't been to Greece or seen it's roads, so I can't compare them to the American roads that I know. Any info on them you could give besides the semi-automated checkpoints?

It's a pretty big cost for commuters. A friend pays an average of 100 euros a month in road toll fees and there is no public transit to his house.

what the bloody hell?
my grandmother has 273 euros as pension (that is in slovak republic)

[Sibirsky]

It's a pretty big cost for commuters. A friend pays an average of 100 euros a month in road toll fees and there is no public transit to his house.

what the bloody hell?
my grandmother has 273 euros as pension (that is in slovak republic)

The Slovak Republic has median incomes roughly half of that of Greece. And likely a lower cost of living. 273 euros is still low though. Also of note, while the Slovak Republic has began recovery, Greece hasn't.

[Sibirsky]

A senior citizen discount, or even free passage would not be a bad idea.

[Natapoc]

It's a pretty big cost for commuters. A friend pays an average of 100 euros a month in road toll fees and there is no public transit to his house.

what the bloody hell?
my grandmother has 273 euros as pension (that is in slovak republic)

And this is with his company discount and mostly for driving to and from work each day.

[Bendira]

I wouldn't be surprised if these roads are just the usual government backed monopolies. That might explain the high fairs. Perhaps they have to spend a lot on complying with government regulations. I should research this.

[Central Slavia]

what the bloody hell?
my grandmother has 273 euros as pension (that is in slovak republic)

And this is with his company discount and mostly for driving to and from work each day.

No wonder greece has so many violent strikes.
Hell if i was there i would use the first chance to throw rocks at some road usurist's s window

[Natapoc]

I wouldn't be surprised if these roads are just the usual government backed monopolies. That might explain the high fairs. Perhaps they have to spend a lot on complying with government regulations. I should research this.

Government backed monopolies are something they are absolutely not (although knowing governments I'm sure there is some corruption involved in who is picked). If you have an EU business you can bid on a Greek road right now.

[Sibirsky]

I wouldn't be surprised if a large chunk of the fees went to the government. That's how a lot of "privatization" works. It's bullshit. It's government double dipping.

[Sibirsky]

And this is with his company discount and mostly for driving to and from work each day.

No wonder greece has so many violent strikes.
Hell if i was there i would use the first chance to throw rocks at some road usurist's s window

What has some driver done to you?

[Bendira]

I wouldn't be surprised if these roads are just the usual government backed monopolies. That might explain the high fairs. Perhaps they have to spend a lot on complying with government regulations. I should research this.

Government backed monopolies are something they are absolutely not (although knowing governments I'm sure there is some corruption involved in who is picked). If you have an EU business you can bid on a Greek road right now.

Do you know any reading material about the Greek roads? I can't find anything on Google.

[Central Slavia]

No wonder greece has so many violent strikes.
Hell if i was there i would use the first chance to throw rocks at some road usurist's s window

What has some driver done to you?

Driver?
Maybe i wasn't clear.. i meant usurist, the person who commits the usury on the drivers by taking so much money

[Natapoc]

What has some driver done to you?

Driver?
Maybe i wasn't clear.. i meant usurist, the person who commits the usury on the drivers by taking so much money

This is why for most people it's automatically deducted electronically It's easy to rack up a large charge without realizing it. They do have security at the checkpoints also.

[Sibirsky]

What has some driver done to you?

Driver?
Maybe i wasn't clear.. i meant usurist, the person who commits the usury on the drivers by taking so much money

Ok, not as bad, but still bad.

[Natapoc]

And this is with his company discount and mostly for driving to and from work each day.

No wonder greece has so many violent strikes.
Hell if i was there i would use the first chance to throw rocks at some road usurist's s window

Many Greek people are pretty upset about it. Here is an article about one occupation.

http://www2.wjbf.com/news/2011/jan/09/p ... r-1320679/

[Natapoc]

I would also like to have Germany paying for all my needs

Capitalist Greece.

I wouldn't say they are committed to the ideology but they are at least Platonic

I love Greece!

you have held some pretty far put beliefs in your time but this takes the cake!

One great thing about Greeks is they are not cowards:

"We have asked the government, as a compensating measure, to allow our passengers to be transported free on stoppage days. The government won't do it, but we will," Apostolos Raftopoulos, head of the Athens bus company's technicians' union told Skai radio station Sunday."

Can you imagine any American saying that?

Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks

-- Winston Churchill.

[The Merchant Republics]

No wonder greece has so many violent strikes.
Hell if i was there i would use the first chance to throw rocks at some road usurist's s window

Many Greek people are pretty upset about it. Here is an article about one occupation.

http://www2.wjbf.com/news/2011/jan/09/p ... r-1320679/

Golly, they're twice their GDP in debt and still manage to feel underprivileged. It's nigh unbelievable.

[Central Slavia]

Many Greek people are pretty upset about it. Here is an article about one occupation.

http://www2.wjbf.com/news/2011/jan/09/p ... r-1320679/

Golly, they're twice their GDP in debt and still manage to feel underprivileged. It's nigh unbelievable.

They?
How the fuck is it *they* who are in debt?
The citizens themselves didn't borrow any money, quite the opposite , they have paid a ton of fees and taxes.
People having shitty salaries compared to expenses will feel underprivileged and rightly so.

[Natapoc]

Here is some evidence against the monopoly theory presented in this thread:

http://www.infrasite.net/news/news_arti ... chten=4549

[Natapoc]

Golly, they're twice their GDP in debt and still manage to feel underprivileged. It's nigh unbelievable.

They?
How the fuck is it *they* who are in debt?
The citizens themselves didn't borrow any money, quite the opposite , they have paid a ton of fees and taxes.
People having shitty salaries compared to expenses will feel underprivileged and rightly so.

Quite right, it's not the fault of the people that EVERY party they elected did the same stupid corrupt stuff to mess everything up. The government and the rich benefited from the loans. Not the people.

[Sibirsky]

Golly, they're twice their GDP in debt and still manage to feel underprivileged. It's nigh unbelievable.

They?
How the fuck is it *they* who are in debt?
The citizens themselves didn't borrow any money, quite the opposite , they have paid a ton of fees and taxes.
People having shitty salaries compared to expenses will feel underprivileged and rightly so.

And it is "they" who are responsible for it. Post bailouts, and whatever other measures the Greek government and the ECB/IMF/Fed fucksquad are going to end up taking, it is the Greek taxpayers on the hook for the debt. Said but true.

On the flip side, the Greek government had generous benefits for "them."

[The Merchant Republics]

Golly, they're twice their GDP in debt and still manage to feel underprivileged. It's nigh unbelievable.

They?
How the fuck is it *they* who are in debt?
The citizens themselves didn't borrow any money, quite the opposite , they have paid a ton of fees and taxes.
People having shitty salaries compared to expenses will feel underprivileged and rightly so.

Well it isn't as if they were protesting the government when it started instituting it's burdensome social services, and they certainly aren't protesting for further cuts now.

However I concede your point to some degree. They did not intend to burden themselves so greatly in debt but it occurred.

[Central Slavia]

They?
How the fuck is it *they* who are in debt?
The citizens themselves didn't borrow any money, quite the opposite , they have paid a ton of fees and taxes.
People having shitty salaries compared to expenses will feel underprivileged and rightly so.

And it is "they" who are responsible for it. Post bailouts, and whatever other measures the Greek government and the ECB/IMF/Fed fucksquad are going to end up taking, it is the Greek taxpayers on the hook for the debt. Said but true.

On the flip side, the Greek government had generous benefits for "them."

No wonder for the riots.
If some guy began extracting money from me i didn't borrow, i'd break his mug too.
This is the same just on bigger scale.

[Sibirsky]

And it is "they" who are responsible for it. Post bailouts, and whatever other measures the Greek government and the ECB/IMF/Fed fucksquad are going to end up taking, it is the Greek taxpayers on the hook for the debt. Said but true.

On the flip side, the Greek government had generous benefits for "them."

No wonder for the riots.
If some guy began extracting money from me i didn't borrow, i'd break his mug too.
This is the same just on bigger scale.

The money was borrowed, in large part to provide generous services for "you." They are rioting to convince the government to keep providing those services.