Free market and roads: Greece Vs USA

[Sibirsky]

It is common sense.

If you refuse to give a valid argument, then i do suggest you exit NSG.

The notion that roads in the US are worse than the majority of the world is simply wrong.

[Georgism]

So? Looks the same to me. How about this Super power you all claim is on the rise!

(Image)
http://www.amazing-planet.net/russian-h ... m-hell.php

Beats Ireland

[Sibirsky]

So? Looks the same to me. How about this Super power you all claim is on the rise!

(Image)
http://www.amazing-planet.net/russian-h ... m-hell.php

To you, i dont think the first one will be accepted as a highway here, but it was not being serious for a minut altough if you would compare the infrastructure, i dont think the infrastructure in the USA would look to good. And infrastucture is very important for the economy, here we all pay for the roads trough taxes and they are beeing maintained perfectly nothing to complain.

And yes in Russia the roads maintains you.

Where is this mystical here?

US infrastructure is better than most of the world.

[Sibirsky]

So? Looks the same to me. How about this Super power you all claim is on the rise!

(Image)
http://www.amazing-planet.net/russian-h ... m-hell.php

Beats Ireland

[Georgism]

Cause I'm the taxman. Yeah, yeah I'm the taxman.
Should 5% feel too small,
Be thankful I don't take it all...

*Too hungover to sing along*

If I had a 95% tax on everything I earn I'd best be getting some amazing services in return.

[SaintB]

If you refuse to give a valid argument, then i do suggest you exit NSG.

The notion that roads in the US are worse than the majority of the world is simply wrong.

The notion that I said that is just as ridiculous.

I said that they aren't maintained enough, and that is true. The quality of every highway, every dam, every bridge in the nation degrades every day and not enough is being done to keep them in working order.

[Natapoc]

http://www.amazing-planet.net/russian-h ... m-hell.php[/spoiler]

Kinda dishonest don't you think? That's not a standard highway in russia. We also have dirt roads in america.

Read this part:

Driving upon these roads in summer when the snows have melted seems like a very stupid idea. But the authorities never even meant for the Lena Highway to be used in the summertime. Yakutsk can only be reached by ferry in the summer.

The road dead ends on the wrong side of Yakutsk and there is no bridge anywhere in the Sakha Republic that crosses the mighty Lena.

One is meant to be built 40 kilometres south of Yakutsk center between 2009 and 2013, a dual-use railroad/road span of some 3 kilometres in length.

So you are comparing a road in an isolated and very frigid area that is only accessible by ferry in the summer?

The examples in this thread of roads from holland and the US were not from comparable places.

[Slovenskiot]

To you, i dont think the first one will be accepted as a highway here, but it was not being serious for a minut altough if you would compare the infrastructure, i dont think the infrastructure in the USA would look to good. And infrastucture is very important for the economy, here we all pay for the roads trough taxes and they are beeing maintained perfectly nothing to complain.

And yes in Russia the roads maintains you.

Where is this mystical here?

US infrastructure is better than most of the world.

What i mean is having a better infrastructure than most of the world is not an end-goal, just because its sucks even more in the rest of the world doesnt make it good.

[Sibirsky]

Cause I'm the taxman. Yeah, yeah I'm the taxman.
Should 5% feel too small,
Be thankful I don't take it all...

*Too hungover to sing along*

If I had a 95% tax on everything I earn I'd best be getting some amazing services in return.

if you drive a car, - I’ll tax the street
if you try to sit, - I’ll tax your seat
if you get too cold, - I’ll tax the heat;
if you take a walk, - I'll tax your feet.

[Sibirsky]

Where is this mystical here?

US infrastructure is better than most of the world.

What i mean is having a better infrastructure than most of the world is not an end-goal, just because its sucks even more less in the rest of the world doesnt make it good.

But it is good. It may not be as good as some places. But for the most part it is good.

[Sibirsky]

http://www.amazing-planet.net/russian-h ... m-hell.php[/spoiler]

Kinda dishonest don't you think? That's not a standard highway in russia. We also have dirt roads in america.

Read this part:

Driving upon these roads in summer when the snows have melted seems like a very stupid idea. But the authorities never even meant for the Lena Highway to be used in the summertime. Yakutsk can only be reached by ferry in the summer.

The road dead ends on the wrong side of Yakutsk and there is no bridge anywhere in the Sakha Republic that crosses the mighty Lena.

One is meant to be built 40 kilometres south of Yakutsk center between 2009 and 2013, a dual-use railroad/road span of some 3 kilometres in length.

So you are comparing a road in an isolated and very frigid area that is only accessible by ferry in the summer?

The examples in this thread of roads from holland and the US were not from comparable places.

The route has grown in importance, and is vital these days. You think with $100 oil they'd manage to pave the damn thing.

[Novograd IV]

If you refuse to give a valid argument, then i do suggest you exit NSG.

The notion that roads in the US are worse than the majority of the world is simply wrong.

stop changing your point, you said 'look at the rest of the world' and have proceeded to remove 2 continents and a country, then change your argument to include 'most' instead of what is constructed by the reader as 'all' then insist that i'm at fault for not being able to follow this constant change in stance?

[SaintB]

Kinda dishonest don't you think? That's not a standard highway in russia. We also have dirt roads in america.

Read this part:




So you are comparing a road in an isolated and very frigid area that is only accessible by ferry in the summer?

The examples in this thread of roads from holland and the US were not from comparable places.

The route has grown in importance, and is vital these days. You think with $100 oil they'd manage to pave the damn thing.

They could but just like the US and China they are spending most of their money on bigger scarier weapons like no tomorrow; all extra cash is funneled toward guns and more guns and nobody wants to remember that the cold war ended when the Soviets collapsed under their own bloated military spending while in the 50's and 60's the USA built an infrastructure to be proud of. Now we take the same damn path of warmongering that destroyed the Soviet Union and ignore the fact that the infrastructure which made America a true super power in the first place is falling apart because they haven't payed any attention to it since Reagan came to the Presidency.

[Sibirsky]

The route has grown in importance, and is vital these days. You think with $100 oil they'd manage to pave the damn thing.

They could but just like the US and China they are spending most of their money on bigger scarier weapons like no tomorrow; all extra cash is funneled toward guns and more guns and nobody wants to remember that the cold war ended when the Soviets collapsed under their own bloated military spending while in the 50's and 60's the USA built an infrastructure to be proud of. Now we take the same damn path of warmongering that destroyed the Soviet Union and ignore the fact that the infrastructure which made America a true super power in the first place is falling apart because they haven't payed any attention to it since Reagan came to the Presidency.

Yeah, and it's bad. But US roads are better. In this particular case, the US could get away with more spending on the military, because there was more money available in general, for other things (like roads).

[Sibirsky]

The notion that roads in the US are worse than the majority of the world is simply wrong.

stop changing your point, you said 'look at the rest of the world' and have proceeded to remove 2 continents and a country, then change your argument to include 'most' instead of what is constructed by the reader as 'all' then insist that i'm at fault for not being able to follow this constant change in stance?

I didn't change my point.

[Novograd IV]

stop changing your point, you said 'look at the rest of the world' and have proceeded to remove 2 continents and a country, then change your argument to include 'most' instead of what is constructed by the reader as 'all' then insist that i'm at fault for not being able to follow this constant change in stance?

I didn't change my point.

you did. at least twice.

[Aynistan]

the road is on land, and connected to government roads. cars and laptops are separate objects.

and what 'alternate' means of transportation other than walking, unsuitable due to slow speeds. not everyone lives next to a train station.

Also, i never said free, i said taxed. consider the Scandinavian countries and how well they work.

Unless it is a government enforced monopoly, then other roads exist and you can choose to do them. The fact that private property adjoins or is related to government property does not mean the owner waivers rights to it.

[Novograd IV]

the road is on land, and connected to government roads. cars and laptops are separate objects.

and what 'alternate' means of transportation other than walking, unsuitable due to slow speeds. not everyone lives next to a train station.

Also, i never said free, i said taxed. consider the Scandinavian countries and how well they work.

Unless it is a government enforced monopoly, then other roads exist and you can choose to do them. The fact that private property adjoins or is related to government property does not mean the owner waivers rights to it.

i feel great sadness at your post. mainly because the grammar makes it... less than easy to understand.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

Kinda dishonest don't you think? That's not a standard highway in russia. We also have dirt roads in america.

Read this part:




So you are comparing a road in an isolated and very frigid area that is only accessible by ferry in the summer?

The examples in this thread of roads from holland and the US were not from comparable places.

The route has grown in importance, and is vital these days. You think with $100 oil they'd manage to pave the damn thing.

The weather makes that road impossible to pave. -50 in the winter and ~100 in the summer, one year and the pavement they put over it would just be shattered slabs of asphalt before it all sank into the mud. Russia is the only developed nation with these kinds of conditions near anything important, and the road is meant to be traveled in the winter which is why it is not paved.

[Sibirsky]

The route has grown in importance, and is vital these days. You think with $100 oil they'd manage to pave the damn thing.

The weather makes that road impossible to pave. -50 in the winter and ~100 in the summer, one year and the pavement they put over it would just be shattered slabs of asphalt before it all sank into the mud. Russia is the only developed nation with these kinds of conditions near anything important, and the road is meant to be traveled in the winter which is why it is not paved.

What about the road in the picture? It's their most important road. Looks ok, except for only 3 lanes and no median or anything separating oncoming traffic.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

The weather makes that road impossible to pave. -50 in the winter and ~100 in the summer, one year and the pavement they put over it would just be shattered slabs of asphalt before it all sank into the mud. Russia is the only developed nation with these kinds of conditions near anything important, and the road is meant to be traveled in the winter which is why it is not paved.

What about the road in the picture? It's their most important road. Looks ok, except for only 3 lanes and no median or anything separating oncoming traffic.

The one in the picture could stand for some improvement, but as for the dirt road it was not made for summer traffic and paving it would be a waste of money because the asphalt would be gone next year. For the same reason mountains tend to fall apart in areas with extreme seasonal differences, mostly frost-based weathering. Water freezes, which expands it's volume, and then thaws to repeat the cycle.

At any rate, you're right that the Russians aren't world class, but as it is their government has been changing for the better over the past 20 years, hiccups aside. Hard to change to the liberal western model after spending literally the last thousand years under one form of brutal repression after the next. The next few generations will show vast improvements.

[Andaluciae]

The examples in this thread of roads from holland and the US were not from comparable places.

I'd hardly consider roads in the Netherlands and the US to be comparable--if for no other reason, but the simple scale issue. The US is some 234 times larger than The Netherlands--and there are some very real scale issues to consider.

[Dustistan]

*Too hungover to sing along*

If I had a 95% tax on everything I earn I'd best be getting some amazing services in return.

if you drive a car, - I’ll tax the street
if you try to sit, - I’ll tax your seat
if you get too cold, - I’ll tax the heat;
if you take a walk, - I'll tax your feet.

So at least we get amazing revenue collection services.

[Natapoc]

The examples in this thread of roads from holland and the US were not from comparable places.

I'd hardly consider roads in the Netherlands and the US to be comparable--if for no other reason, but the simple scale issue. The US is some 234 times larger than The Netherlands--and there are some very real scale issues to consider.

True but he was comparing roads in well developed areas of the respective countries to an extremely rural area of Russia on a road that is not even intended to be used for much of the year.

[Meldaria]

The roads in Greece probably aren't that well-made, and making the common man pay to drive on them on his way to work is bullshit. You're literally charging people to move from place to place. This can make those who can barely afford gasoline prisoners to whatever areas they can afford to get to.