Free market and roads: Greece Vs USA

[Novograd IV]

Britain FTW, eh old chap?

No I said SAFE driving environment and you guys drive in the wrong side of the road

you drive on the wrong side of the road, we're your father after all

[Sibirsky]

You two don't have legs?*

Movement, in the case here requires someone to pave huge chunks of land, someone to mine steel, drill for oil, make plastic, manufacture a car, refine oil into gasoline and on and on and on. I'm literally missing several thousand steps here.
*not trying to be rude. Tired of Xomic and his shit.

And? that should be payed for by tax, not individuals, otherwise you're restricting the use of consumer goods (car) and the freedom of movement (no, just walking isn't sufficient in modern society)

Why should those that do not use roads have to pay for them?

[Sibirsky]

I don't like either system.

The US builds roads for public use and then doesn't bother to put in the necessary effort to maintain them and Greece gives them to private companies to run.

I like a system where I pay my taxes and they get used to fix my roads so I have a safe driving environment.

Our roads are not maintained? You should take a trip overseas to see what roads that haven't been maintained look like.

[Novograd IV]

And? that should be payed for by tax, not individuals, otherwise you're restricting the use of consumer goods (car) and the freedom of movement (no, just walking isn't sufficient in modern society)

Why should those that do not use roads have to pay for them?

Because a large majority do, and everyone uses them. people walk beside them, using them as guidelines to their destination, people cycle on them ect.

roads offer you a location and guidance, even when not in a car.

[Georgism]

Why should those that do not use roads have to pay for them?

Doesn't basically everyone benefit from roads?

[Slovenskiot]

Why should those that do not use roads have to pay for them?

Because everyone benefits from better infrastructure, if your not driving your still dependent on the economy which in turn needs a good infrastructure. You should see it as a good investment.


What is happening in Greece does have a risk, like China buying up large amounts of infrastructure in Greece, luckily the EU does own alot of roads especially the important ones and Germany does to.
But would you like China owning infrastructure in your country?

[The Parkus Empire]

Free market where public transport is readily available, communal elsewhere.

[Risottia]

Capitalist Greece.

Are you shocked by the idea that Nea Demokratia is a right-wing party?

[Sibirsky]

Why should those that do not use roads have to pay for them?

Doesn't basically everyone benefit from roads?

Sure. What if a handicapped person does not go out and drive anywhere? Works from home, and pays taxes. Why should this individual's taxes be used for roads that he does not use?

[Sibirsky]

Why should those that do not use roads have to pay for them?

Because everyone benefits from better infrastructure, if your not driving your still dependent on the economy which in turn needs a good infrastructure. You should see it as a good investment.


What is happening in Greece does have a risk, like China buying up large amounts of infrastructure in Greece, luckily the EU does own alot of roads especially the important ones and Germany does to.
But would you like China owning infrastructure in your country?

And they pay for it. Any product they buy has the cost of shipping that product included. Which includes the costs of roads. You suggest that person pay extra, for not using the roads any more.

[SaintB]

I don't like either system.

The US builds roads for public use and then doesn't bother to put in the necessary effort to maintain them and Greece gives them to private companies to run.

I like a system where I pay my taxes and they get used to fix my roads so I have a safe driving environment.

Our roads are not maintained? You should take a trip overseas to see what roads that haven't been maintained look like.

I said they are not maintained enough, which is true.

[Sibirsky]

Capitalist Greece.

Are you shocked by the idea that Nea Demokratia is a right-wing party?

No, just that in this particular case, Greece is more capitalist than the US.

[Sibirsky]

Our roads are not maintained? You should take a trip overseas to see what roads that haven't been maintained look like.

I said they are not maintained enough, which is true.

Not really.

[Risottia]

Are you shocked by the idea that Nea Demokratia is a right-wing party?

No, just that in this particular case, Greece is more capitalist than the US.

I see.

[Georgism]

Sure. What if a handicapped person does not go out and drive anywhere? Works from home, and pays taxes. Why should this individual's taxes be used for roads that he does not use?

Things like food will need roads to get to him. Especially if he gets his food delivered right to his door, which is fairly likely if he's handicapped.

[Slovenskiot]

And they pay for it. Any product they buy has the cost of shipping that product included. Which includes the costs of roads. You suggest that person pay extra, for not using the roads any more.

No its not paying extra because with better infrastructure the cost of shipping that product gets lower.

Included in the product is the price for shipment, not for improvement and maintainment of the infrastructure, which is an investment.

[SaintB]

Doesn't basically everyone benefit from roads?

Sure. What if a handicapped person does not go out and drive anywhere? Works from home, and pays taxes. Why should this individual's taxes be used for roads that he does not use?

Even if HE doesn't use the road he receives some benefit from the road being there, such as whoever installed and maintains his phone/cable/internet/whatever else he uses to work from home and that's an easy example.

[Sibirsky]

Sure. What if a handicapped person does not go out and drive anywhere? Works from home, and pays taxes. Why should this individual's taxes be used for roads that he does not use?

Things like food will need roads to get to him. Especially if he gets his food delivered right to his door, which is fairly likely if he's handicapped.

And? He will pay for the road proportionally. Either a delivery fee, or it will be included in the price. Everyone here is suggesting he pay for far more road than he uses. It isn't fair. As if this hypothetical handicapped person has not suffered enough. Everyone is suggesting sending the Taxman after him.

[SaintB]

I said they are not maintained enough, which is true.

Not really.

Yes really. Good enough not to fall down today is not good enough for tomorrow.

The entire fucking American system is based on a policy of "Well it won't break today"

[Sibirsky]

And they pay for it. Any product they buy has the cost of shipping that product included. Which includes the costs of roads. You suggest that person pay extra, for not using the roads any more.

No its not paying extra because with better infrastructure the cost of shipping that product gets lower.

Included in the product is the price for shipment, not for improvement and maintainment of the infrastructure, which is an investment.

87% of the road funding in the US comes from the state and federal gasoline excise taxes. Which is covered by the cost of shipping the product. If he buys it, he pays for the roads.

[Sibirsky]

Sure. What if a handicapped person does not go out and drive anywhere? Works from home, and pays taxes. Why should this individual's taxes be used for roads that he does not use?

Even if HE doesn't use the road he receives some benefit from the road being there, such as whoever installed and maintains his phone/cable/internet/whatever else he uses to work from home and that's an easy example.

And he pays for all of that.

[Sibirsky]

Not really.

Yes really. Good enough not to fall down today is not good enough for tomorrow.

The entire fucking American system is based on a policy of "Well it won't break today"

You should see the rest of the world.

[Novograd IV]

Yes really. Good enough not to fall down today is not good enough for tomorrow.

The entire fucking American system is based on a policy of "Well it won't break today"

You should see the rest of the world.

uh... no.

source for that?

[SaintB]

Even if HE doesn't use the road he receives some benefit from the road being there, such as whoever installed and maintains his phone/cable/internet/whatever else he uses to work from home and that's an easy example.

And he pays for all of that.

Yes, partially through taxes.

[Slovenskiot]

87% of the road funding in the US comes from the state and federal gasoline excise taxes. Which is covered by the cost of shipping the product. If he buys it, he pays for the roads.

Oke well im not an expert on US road maintainment, but its still 87% which is not 100% , but is this maintainment only or als improvement? (which it does kinda need )

And next to that i extually do believe sometimes you have to pay for somethings you might not need yourself, some might not need protection still he has to pay for the protection of others ect.
This is what you do in a country, pay for the basic stuff that you need to even have a free-market society.

You should see the rest of the world.

Which part?