Congresswoman Gabby Giffords Shot in Head

[Gauthier]

1. It is reckless to designate blame without evidence. Everybody was pissed when I said that it was an agent from Djbouti with the same amount of concrete evidence as they had. I expect reasonable standards other than the Tea Party motivated it because they said stuff.

I'm not designating blame without evidence. What I'm talking about is already a matter of public record (the rhetoric), and I'm not saying it forced an assailant to do anything.

2. Palin isn't a governor anymore, she is a celebrity. I prefer her to the morons in hollywood who support Hugo Chavez. Bachmann isn't a mainstream Republican to my knowledge. She also took back the statements questioning Obama's patriotism- which is the worst thing I found in an immediate search. Why not attempt Michael Steele or Boehner?

3. Actually, it is relatively different. You would be explicitly advocating for me to murder myself. The Tea Party is using indirect rhetoric. Moral responsibility means that they did something directly and undeniably morally reprehensible. Telling somebody to die falls under such a definition. Warning that a revolution would occur if the people's rights were violated is not morally reprehensible- although I disagree with even saying it this early if at all- it simply isn't. The fact is to be morally reprehensible you would have had to have a hand in the crime or directly incited the crime. The legal standards are relatively effective when it comes to this.

Bachmann has called for "insurrection" against the GOP, said she wanted people "armed and dangerous" and said they needed to "fight back" when she disapproved of a tax plan... Sarah Palin told Americans "Dont' retreat, instead - RELOAD". This rhetoric is out there, and you can choose to pretend it's not, but you don't just get to deny it and have it go away.

The Explicit Proof Defense: We didn't straight out tell them to kill the opposition, so we're perfectly fine to say what we want, and we didn't play a damn part in provoking the shooter.

[Farnhamia]

No, it was John McCain's illegitimate child. You know, the one we heard about in the 2000 Republican primaries.

Are you sure? A Brownie at a Safeway would stand out to the blind.

He didn't actually go into the Safeway, now did he?

[Alien Space Bats]

Interesting pattern in this fucktard's writing style.

Makes a statement.
Repeats that statement in a more concise form using virtually the same language.
Makes a conclusion statement that repeats it again.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread591520/pg1
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread592730/pg1
http://www.youtube.com/user/classitup10 ... nNx0WThoF0 :15 second mark
http://www.youtube.com/user/classitup10 ... HoaZaLbqB4 entire video
etc...

No, you're missing it. He's tracing what he sees as the logical steps in Boolean fashion, while ignoring the disconnection between his logical variables and reality. It's almost mathematical...

Is it possible for an infinite source of currency?

If a member of the treasury creates 5 new currency's then the new currency replaces the previous currency.
If the new currency replaces the previous currency then the previous currency is no longer in use.
A members of the treasury creates 5 new currency's.
Therefore, the previous currency is no longer in use.


If the treasury creates a new currency then the new currency will replace the previous currency.
The treasury creates a new currency.
Therefore, the new currency will replace the previous currency.

If the treasury creates one new currency then why couldn't they create an infinite amount?

Wouldn't be beautiful to see your face on the new coins?

Reduces to:

A?

B → C
C → D
B
∴ D

C → D
C
∴ D

B → A.

A

E?

Kind of like watching a painfully slow and uncertain mind work its way through a set of logical connections to a conclusion, even though the implications aren't really sound.

Ice cream implies hot fudge.
Hot fudge implies happiness.
Ergo, ice cream implies happiness.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all have hot fudge sundaes?

I wonder if this guy had some kind of obsessive learning disorder.

That would make sense. The Congresswoman he shot did support anti-illegal immigration reforms, so logically, it wouldn't be surprising at all if some left-wing extremist took the initiative to commit this massacre on those grounds. If so, it's only more proof that radical leftism is becoming more and more of a threat in modern western society.

Come on, GA, you can do better than that! He said that he liked "The Communist Manifesto", "Mein Kampf", and "We the Living". So does that make him a Communist Neo-Nazi Objectivist?!?

I doubt he actually read half of his "favorite books". Seriously.

[Mercator Terra]

Have you studied the psychology of ever Swiss citizen? This argument is weak.

They have lots of guns but they tend to kill people a lot less than America which has loads of guns.

Sorry, what conclusion was I supposed to reach?

They have more guns then us and have extremely less murder rates. Either that they somehow have more humanity then us or what I said is true.
EDIT: Eliminating guns from the market wont do anything, like I said they will just reappear in a black market. Like drugs...

[Maxen von Bismarck]

Hate to jump in midstream here but from what I can gather the crazy guy was not a right winger or a lefty. None of his extensive online ramblings reference anything beyond allusions to 'Mein Kampf,' Karl Marx and some weird hate of the American government (sans the healthcare debate, Obama, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck ect ect). His only "favorited" YouTube movie is one of a burning American flag and, for the record, he's an atheist. His classmate said he was a classic 'left-winger' before he turned really crazy, but in any event... I don't think it was political in the classical sense.

*shrugs*

Carry on general. Just a RPer and his ramblings.

EDIT: The thing I don't get is why we hate on the Tea Partiers so much for their gun loving shit. Wasn't there a West Virginia Democrat who ran an ad with him shooting things with his rifle? I mean, it happens on both sides and Krugman's op-ed is still... Disgusting.

[Gauthier]

They have lots of guns but they tend to kill people a lot less than America which has loads of guns.

Sorry, what conclusion was I supposed to reach?

They have more guns then us and have extremely less murder rates. Either that they somehow have more humanity then us or what I said is true.
EDIT: Eliminating guns from the market wont do anything, like I said they will just reappear in a black market. Like drugs...

Apparently the point about increasing the difficulty of gun access to unstable types- rather than your favorite strawman of eliminating gun accessibility period- went through your head faster than the bullet went through Gabrielle Giffords'.

[Alien Space Bats]

BTW, I want to say that I am impressed by the way Arizona is handling this case.

Arizona has arranged for Judy Clarke, to be brought in from San Diego to serve as Laughner's defense attorney. Clarke is one of the nation's top public defenders, having represented Ted Kaczynski (a/k/a "the Unabomber"), Zacarias Moussaoui (who was involved 9/11 attacks), and Susan Smith (the woman convicted in 1995 for having drowned her two sons). By securing the services of a top ranked public defender who is experienced in high-profile cases, Arizona has done what it can to ensure against the possibility of successful appeal of any conviction due to incompetent counsel.

They are also keeping a careful lid on their evidence, seeking to do their best to avoid tainting any possible jury. It is a given that the trial will require a change of venue. I should also note that Judge Roll's colleagues have recused themselves from the case, which will mean that a different Federal judge will need to be brought in to hear the case where Federal charges (eg., assaulting a Member of Congress) are concerned.

My hope is that Arizona will continue to show the utmost professionalism and responsibility in its handling of this case, providing us all with a textbook example of how matters like this are supposed to be handled.

And while I want to give the local police kudos for their devotion to duty in the handling of this case, I suspect that some of the credit for this belongs to Gov. Jan Brewer, who is a friend of Congresswoman Giffords. She of all people certainly wants to make sure that the wheels of justice grind exceedingly fine on this one...

[Wikkiwallana]

Hate to jump in midstream here but from what I can gather the crazy guy was not a right winger or a lefty. None of his extensive online ramblings reference anything beyond allusions to 'Mein Kampf,' Karl Marx and some weird hate of the American government (sans the healthcare debate, Obama, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck ect ect). His only "favorited" YouTube movie is one of a burning American flag and, for the record, he's an atheist. His classmate said he was a classic 'left-winger' before he turned really crazy, but in any event... I don't think it was political in the classical sense.

*shrugs*

Carry on general. Just a RPer and his ramblings.

EDIT: The thing I don't get is why we hate on the Tea Partiers so much for their gun loving shit. Wasn't there a West Virginia Democrat who ran an ad with him shooting things with his rifle? I mean, it happens on both sides and Krugman's op-ed is still... Disgusting.

Source? I'd be glad to denounce that too. I'm against violence centered rhetoric from all sides.

[South Norwega]

They have lots of guns but they tend to kill people a lot less than America which has loads of guns.

Sorry, what conclusion was I supposed to reach?

They have more guns then us and have extremely less murder rates. Either that they somehow have more humanity then us or what I said is true.
EDIT: Eliminating guns from the market wont do anything, like I said they will just reappear in a black market. Like drugs...

I'm sorry, but what?

Removing a significant proportion of guns from Australia's gun market seems to have done nothing at all to increase the black market in guns.

Unfortunately for you also, Switzerland has about half as many guns per capita as the US. Ha.

[Desperate Measures]

They have more guns then us and have extremely less murder rates. Either that they somehow have more humanity then us or what I said is true.
EDIT: Eliminating guns from the market wont do anything, like I said they will just reappear in a black market. Like drugs...

I'm sorry, but what?

Removing a significant proportion of guns from Australia's gun market seems to have done nothing at all to increase the black market in guns.

Unfortunately for you also, Switzerland has about half as many guns per capita as the US. Ha.

I honestly had no idea we had that many. I'm guessing that I have a gun stashed somewhere but must have forgotten all about it.

[Maxen von Bismarck]

Hate to jump in midstream here but from what I can gather the crazy guy was not a right winger or a lefty. None of his extensive online ramblings reference anything beyond allusions to 'Mein Kampf,' Karl Marx and some weird hate of the American government (sans the healthcare debate, Obama, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck ect ect). His only "favorited" YouTube movie is one of a burning American flag and, for the record, he's an atheist. His classmate said he was a classic 'left-winger' before he turned really crazy, but in any event... I don't think it was political in the classical sense.

*shrugs*

Carry on general. Just a RPer and his ramblings.

EDIT: The thing I don't get is why we hate on the Tea Partiers so much for their gun loving shit. Wasn't there a West Virginia Democrat who ran an ad with him shooting things with his rifle? I mean, it happens on both sides and Krugman's op-ed is still... Disgusting.

Source? I'd be glad to denounce that too. I'm against violence centered rhetoric from all sides.

YouTube/Google Joe Manchin. *high fives* It's somewhere in my "lulz" bookmark folder... Somewhere. Heh.

[Wikkiwallana]

Source? I'd be glad to denounce that too. I'm against violence centered rhetoric from all sides.

YouTube/Google Joe Manchin. *high fives* It's somewhere in my "lulz" bookmark folder... Somewhere. Heh.

Having watched his video, I see what you mean, and luckily I also see links indicating that he caught enough flak for it to make the news.

[The Lone Alliance]

Finally, a gunman who is actually a decent shot.

Nick, there is a line, and you crossed it.

[South Norwega]

I'm sorry, but what?

Removing a significant proportion of guns from Australia's gun market seems to have done nothing at all to increase the black market in guns.

Unfortunately for you also, Switzerland has about half as many guns per capita as the US. Ha.

I honestly had no idea we had that many. I'm guessing that I have a gun stashed somewhere but must have forgotten all about it.

No, you only have 0.9 of a gun, unfortunately.

I'm not entirely sure what that means, though. I expect it would lack some parts which made it work, thus the world would be a safer place.

[Gauthier]

Are you sure? A Brownie at a Safeway would stand out to the blind.

He didn't actually go into the Safeway, now did he?

He came out from it.

[Farnhamia]

He didn't actually go into the Safeway, now did he?

He came out from it.

Did he? I missed that. Still, McCain's love-child might be light-skinned.

[Caninope]

They have more guns then us and have extremely less murder rates. Either that they somehow have more humanity then us or what I said is true.
EDIT: Eliminating guns from the market wont do anything, like I said they will just reappear in a black market. Like drugs...

I'm sorry, but what?

Removing a significant proportion of guns from Australia's gun market seems to have done nothing at all to increase the black market in guns.

Unfortunately for you also, Switzerland has about half as many guns per capita as the US. Ha.

Still not accurate. Only half of households, at most have guns, with most of those probably belonging to only one or two people in the households.

[Intangelon]

And now that fuck head preacher is going to protest the funerals of those 6 dead! What a fucking asshole douchebag cock dick! pardon my french.

The Phelps clan are real life douchebags trolls who do it for attention and lawsuit money. Nobody has figured out how to banhammer them in real life.

Well, not really. There are plenty of ways to banhammer them. It's just that they all wind up making martyrs of the Phelps' and criminals of the hammer-wielder.

[Linux and the X]

Unarmed citizens did defend themselves in this story. They overpowered the armed assailant and disarmed him. Furthermore, Arizona allows concealed carry, and it made no difference to the defence, because no one (else) was armed when it mattered.

Actually, one of the news programmes I happened to catch interviewed someone who had, but didn't use, a concealed gun.

[Wikkiwallana]

More on how bad it's gotten: http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline

Some highlights:

July 27, 2008—Jim Adkisson shoots and kills two people at a progressive church in Knoxville, Tennessee, wounding two. Adkisson calls it “a symbolic killing” because he really “wanted to kill…every Democrat in the Senate & House, the 100 people in Bernard Goldberg's book,” but was unable to gain access to them.
...
March 21-22, 2009—Congresswoman Michele Bachmann (R-MN) states that she wants residents of her state to be “armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us ‘having a revolution every now and then is a good thing,’ and the people—we the people—are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country.”
...
April 4, 2009—Neo-Nazi Richard Poplawski shoots and kills three police officers responding to a 911 call to his home in Pittsburgh. His friend Edward Perkovic tells reporters that Poplawski feared “the Obama gun ban that’s on its way” and “didn’t like our rights being infringed upon.” Perkovic also commented that Poplawski carried out the shooting because “if anyone tried to take his firearms, he was gonna’ stand by what his forefathers told him to do.”
...
June 3, 2009—Hal Turner, a New Jersey resident and white supremacist blogger/radio host, is arrested on charges of inciting injury after calling for the deaths of two Connecticut state legislators on his blog because they sponsored a bill that would have transferred financial power in Roman Catholic parishes from priests and bishops to lay members. “While filing a lawsuit is quaint and the 'decent' way to handle things,” he wrote, “we at TRN (Turner Radio Network) believe that being decent to a group of tyrannical scumbags is the wrong approach. It's too soft. Thankfully, the Founding Fathers gave us the tools necessary to resolve tyranny: The Second Amendment. TRN advocates Catholics in Connecticut take up arms and put down this tyranny by force ... If any state attorney, police department or court thinks they're going to get uppity with us about this, I suspect we have enough bullets to put them down, too.”
...
July 15, 2009—Katherine Crabill, a Republican candidate for the Virginia House of Delegates in the state’s 99th District makes headlines by calling on Americans to resist the course President Obama has set for the country. Appearing at a “Tea Party” rally, Crabill quotes a 1775 speech by Patrick Henry and then states, “We have a chance to fight this battle at the ballot box before we have to resort to the bullet box. But that's the beauty of our Second Amendment right. I am glad for all of us who enjoy the use of firearms for hunting. But make no mistake. That was not the intent of the Founding Fathers. Our Second Amendment right was to guard against tyranny.” This thought is reinforced on Crabill’s campaign website, where she states the Second Amendment “was clearly intended for self defense as well as, and more specifically, to keep the government on notice of an armed citizenry.”

And it just keeps going on.

Still think they aren't advocating clear violence?

Edit: Some more extremely clear ones found on further reading:

September 28, 2009—Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA), the Chairman of the Second Amendment Task Force in the U.S. House of Representatives, calls House Speaker Nancy Pelosi a “domestic enemy of the Constitution” at a health care reform town hall meeting.
...
March 23, 2010—After Mike Troxel of the Lynchburg Tea Party and Nigel Coleman of the Danville Tea Party post the home address of the brother of Rep. Tom Perriello (D-VA) and urge supporters to "drop by," someone deliberately cuts a propane gas line at the house. Rep. Perriello is targeted by the Tea Party activists because of his vote in favor of health care reform. Perriello's brother and his wife have four children under the age of eight.
...
April 13, 2010—Reports surface that state Sen. Randy Brogdon (R-OK) and Rep. Charles Key (R-OK) have met with Oklahoma Tea Party groups to discuss the formation of a new "volunteer militia" to defend against what they see as improprer federal infringements on state sovereignty. Brogdon states that the Founding Fathers "were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren't even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other. The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government." One Tea Party leader involved in these meetings, J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea group, has called for the Militia to "launch a thousand guerrilla attacks on the plans that these people have to ruin us and our country."
...
June 9, 2010—Addressing the Obama administration and the Democratic-controlled Congress, FOX commentator Glenn Beck says, "Shoot me in the head if you try to change our government—I will stand against you. And so will millions of others." Beck also compares American Progressives to Osama bin Laden and claims "they want to overthrow our entire system of government."

Edit: And here's one that shows that this kind of thing is easy to take too far:

November 10, 2010—Public schools in Broward County, Florida, go into lockdown after an email threat is received by WFTL 850 AM. The email is sent to conservative radio host Joyce Kaufman in response to remarks she made at a Tea Party event in July ("If ballots don't work, bullets will"). The email expresses support for her view of the Second Amendment and says that to further "their cause...something big will happen at a government building in Broward County, maybe a post office maybe even a school." A phone call is then received at the station, allegedly from the emailer's wife, warning that he is preparing to go to a Pembroke Pines school and open fire.

[The Plutonian Empire]

Anyone else see this guy actually freaking smiling in his mugshot photo?

What would that be an indicator of, generally?

[Geniasis]

Anyone else see this guy actually freaking smiling in his mugshot photo?

What would that be an indicator of, generally?

Wanting to look good for the papers?

[Grave_n_idle]

Anyone else see this guy actually freaking smiling in his mugshot photo?

What would that be an indicator of, generally?

Being proud of what he did?

Maybe he feels like he's a hero, for taking down the evil oppressor state, or something?

[Gauthier]

Anyone else see this guy actually freaking smiling in his mugshot photo?

What would that be an indicator of, generally?

Being proud of what he did?

Maybe he feels like he's a hero, for taking down the evil oppressor state, or something?

I wonder how his ego would handle his heroes calling him a fucking traitor?

[Free Soviets]

More on how bad it's gotten: http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline

also worth remembering are things like this report from politico last spring:

Senate Sergeant at Arms Terrance Gainer says threats against members of Congress were up 300 percent in the first few months of 2010.