Feminism, misogyny and misandry.

[Xsyne]

And even an 'Ugly' Woman gets the 'hotty', it's always because she's suddenly turned into one herself...

Oh yes, the "she's ugly when she's got a bad haircut, unfashionable clothing and glasses, but stupid hot when those are gone" thing.

And she isn't even ugly in the first place.

[The Norwegian Blue]

Oh yes, the "she's ugly when she's got a bad haircut, unfashionable clothing and glasses, but stupid hot when those are gone" thing.

And she isn't even ugly in the first place.

Indeed.

I also love that "prettying her up" takes precedence over everything else, including basic sense and the laws of physics, in such movies. I've seen at least one where the guy removes her thick glasses, tells her to leave them off, and then they just go about the rest of the scene (and the rest of the movie) without them. Apparently it's fine that she's now presumably walking into walls and driving off cliffs because she can't freaking see, so long as she looks hot while doing so. *sigh*

[Dakini]

Oh yes, the "she's ugly when she's got a bad haircut, unfashionable clothing and glasses, but stupid hot when those are gone" thing.

And she isn't even ugly in the first place.

Yes, I should have preserved the scarequotes around "ugly".

[Tokos]

Indeed.

I also love that "prettying her up" takes precedence over everything else, including basic sense and the laws of physics, in such movies. I've seen at least one where the guy removes her thick glasses, tells her to leave them off, and then they just go about the rest of the scene (and the rest of the movie) without them. Apparently it's fine that she's now presumably walking into walls and driving off cliffs because she can't freaking see, so long as she looks hot while doing so. *sigh*

Quite true. Walking into things and fumbling about the place is cute, not hot. Entirely different thing.

[Lauchlin]

I know it's early, everybody, but this has to be Thread of the Year 2011.

[Tokos]

As an ignorant Brit I just looked up this Ugly Betty thing. Hm. Not ugly at all. Stuff like this makes me wonder if the "standards of beauty" rhetoric is, in a roundabout way, correct.

[Mediterreania]

You hate the idea of men and women being treated equally because your English teacher talks about it a lot?

Man, that's some bullshit reasoning.

I don't hate many of the basic principles like "women are equal to men," its just that I hate being told them over and over again. Then there's the tangents we go on in that class, which I won't even mention.

I know feminists who don't care about equal rights as long as there are women's rights. This isn't to say I want women oppressed, it's just to say that no one group's rights should be more important than another's.

[Bottle]

I don't hate many of the basic principles like "women are equal to men," its just that I hate being told them over and over again. Then there's the tangents we go on in that class, which I won't even mention.

I know feminists who don't care about equal rights as long as there are women's rights. This isn't to say I want women oppressed, it's just to say that no one group's rights should be more important than another's.

If you know people who claim to not care about equal rights, or who claim to only care about protecting rights for members of one gender, then those people aren't feminists.

It's like if you meet somebody who says they only care about rights for white people, and then they tell you they are totally not racist. People lie sometimes.

[The Norwegian Blue]

As an ignorant Brit I just looked up this Ugly Betty thing. Hm. Not ugly at all. Stuff like this makes me wonder if the "standards of beauty" rhetoric is, in a roundabout way, correct.

It does tell you a lot about our society that when looking for someone to cast as a character named "ugly Betty," this is who we come up with:



...and then we just slap some glasses and braces on her and pretend that she is now "ugly." It's a wee bit insane.

[Farnhamia]

As an ignorant Brit I just looked up this Ugly Betty thing. Hm. Not ugly at all. Stuff like this makes me wonder if the "standards of beauty" rhetoric is, in a roundabout way, correct.

It does tell you a lot about our society that when looking for someone to cast as a character named "ugly Betty," this is who we come up with:



...and then we just slap some glasses and braces on her and pretend that she is now "ugly." It's a wee bit insane.

In this case it was easy, her name is "America," so the leftist Hollywoodians used her as camoflage for their nefarious anti-American activities. Remember what Edmund Wilson said, "All Hollywood corrupts; absolute Hollywood corrupts absolutely."

[Tokos]

If you know people who claim to not care about equal rights, or who claim to only care about protecting rights for members of one gender, then those people aren't feminists.

Pretty much everyone claims to care about equal rights. Actions speak louder than rights.

That said, feminists, at least in the UK, don't seem to put women above men (except some, on the recent anonymity thing, but that's another topic).

[Mediterreania]

I know feminists who don't care about equal rights as long as there are women's rights. This isn't to say I want women oppressed, it's just to say that no one group's rights should be more important than another's.

If you know people who claim to not care about equal rights, or who claim to only care about protecting rights for members of one gender, then those people aren't feminists.

It's like if you meet somebody who says they only care about rights for white people, and then they tell you they are totally not racist. People lie sometimes.

It started as simply mentioning women's rights, moved on to constantly mentioning them, and finally turning everything, no matter how trivial, into something that is oppressing women and should be changed to accommodate their rights (even if they said no such thing about men).

I know, this kinda sounds misogynistic, but believe me, you would agree.

[Tokos]

It started as simply mentioning women's rights, moved on to constantly mentioning them, and finally turning everything, no matter how trivial, into something that is oppressing women and should be changed to accommodate their rights (even if they said no such thing about men).

I know, this kinda sounds misogynistic, but believe me, you would agree.

Stuff like Iceland banning strippers?

[Mediterreania]

It started as simply mentioning women's rights, moved on to constantly mentioning them, and finally turning everything, no matter how trivial, into something that is oppressing women and should be changed to accommodate their rights (even if they said no such thing about men).

I know, this kinda sounds misogynistic, but believe me, you would agree.

Stuff like Iceland banning strippers?

More like:

"He obviously hates me because I'm a woman. Sexist!"

[Tokos]

Okay, but who takes them seriously?

[Mediterreania]

Okay, but who takes them seriously?

No one. However, it can be very irritating to constantly hear someone being accused of misogyny.

[Unhealthy2]

There are often debates about what is and isn't feminism. Many times examples of ridiculous statements coming from self-described feminists are dismissed as these people not being true Scotsmen, I mean feminists. This, of course, raises the question of who owns the term. Who gets to decide what feminism is and what it isn't? Who gets to decide who is and is not a feminist?

[The Parkus Empire]

There are often debates about what is and isn't feminism. Many times examples of ridiculous statements coming from self-described feminists are dismissed as these people not being true Scotsmen, I mean feminists. This, of course, raises the question of who owns the term. Who gets to decide what feminism is and what it isn't? Who gets to decide who is and is not a feminist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

[Unhealthy2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

So Wikipedia is the arbiter of the correct definition of feminism?

Nonetheless, it appears to contradict its own definition, as it also lists separatist feminism as feminist, despite the fact that separatist feminism is decidedly sexist.

[The Norwegian Blue]

There are often debates about what is and isn't feminism. Many times examples of ridiculous statements coming from self-described feminists are dismissed as these people not being true Scotsmen, I mean feminists. This, of course, raises the question of who owns the term. Who gets to decide what feminism is and what it isn't? Who gets to decide who is and is not a feminist?

The thing with "no true Scotsman" is that it's only a fallacy when it's, you know, fallacious. It's not actually a fallacy to say, "Susan isn't a true Scotsman because she's not from Scotland, has no Scottish heritage or ancestry, and isn't a man."

The fallacy occurs when you invent your own defining quality, not when you use the actual dictionary definition of a word. It would be a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say "this person who believes in the social, legal, and economic equality of the sexes but does not believe affirmative action is a good way to achieve that end is not a feminist." It very definitely is NOT a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say "this person who does not believe in the social, legal, and economic equality of the sexes is not a feminist, because that's the goddamn definition of the word 'feminist'."

[Unhealthy2]

The thing with "no true Scotsman" is that it's only a fallacy when it's, you know, fallacious. It's not actually a fallacy to say, "Susan isn't a true Scotsman because she's not from Scotland, has no Scottish heritage or ancestry, and isn't a man."

The fallacy occurs when you invent your own defining quality, not when you use the actual dictionary definition of a word. It would be a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say "this person who believes in the social, legal, and economic equality of the sexes but does not believe affirmative action is a good way to achieve that end is not a feminist." It very definitely is NOT a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say "this person who does not believe in the social, legal, and economic equality of the sexes is not a feminist, because that's the goddamn definition of the word 'feminist'."

But how do we decide that belief in equality of the sexes is the correct definition of feminism? What if someone said that feminism is defined as the belief that pumpkins are evil? Why would they necessarily be wrong?

[Xsyne]

The thing with "no true Scotsman" is that it's only a fallacy when it's, you know, fallacious. It's not actually a fallacy to say, "Susan isn't a true Scotsman because she's not from Scotland, has no Scottish heritage or ancestry, and isn't a man."

The fallacy occurs when you invent your own defining quality, not when you use the actual dictionary definition of a word. It would be a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say "this person who believes in the social, legal, and economic equality of the sexes but does not believe affirmative action is a good way to achieve that end is not a feminist." It very definitely is NOT a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say "this person who does not believe in the social, legal, and economic equality of the sexes is not a feminist, because that's the goddamn definition of the word 'feminist'."

But how do we decide that belief in equality of the sexes is the correct definition of feminism? What if someone said that feminism is defined as the belief that pumpkins are evil? Why would they necessarily be wrong?

Therefore, 2+2=17.

[Mediterreania]

But how do we decide that belief in equality of the sexes is the correct definition of feminism? What if someone said that feminism is defined as the belief that pumpkins are evil? Why would they necessarily be wrong?

Therefore, 2+2=17.

And A = A = potato.

[Dakini]

The thing with "no true Scotsman" is that it's only a fallacy when it's, you know, fallacious. It's not actually a fallacy to say, "Susan isn't a true Scotsman because she's not from Scotland, has no Scottish heritage or ancestry, and isn't a man."

The fallacy occurs when you invent your own defining quality, not when you use the actual dictionary definition of a word. It would be a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say "this person who believes in the social, legal, and economic equality of the sexes but does not believe affirmative action is a good way to achieve that end is not a feminist." It very definitely is NOT a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say "this person who does not believe in the social, legal, and economic equality of the sexes is not a feminist, because that's the goddamn definition of the word 'feminist'."

But how do we decide that belief in equality of the sexes is the correct definition of feminism? What if someone said that feminism is defined as the belief that pumpkins are evil? Why would they necessarily be wrong?

How do we decide that gravitation is the force that attracts massive objects to each other? What if someone said that gravitation is defined as the stuff that comes out the back end of a cow? Would they necessarily be wrong?

[Unhealthy2]

Therefore, 2+2=17.

It can in a very simple algebraic alteration to the integers under addition. Just redefine "+" so that a + b in the new system is a + b + 13 under the old definition of "+.'