Feminism, misogyny and misandry.

[Geniasis]

Oh if only I were actually a Comedian
Then it would be funny
and not tragic

So you're kind of like a reverse Tommy Wiseau, then?

[GeneralHaNor]

Oh if only I were actually a Comedian
Then it would be funny
and not tragic

So you're kind of like a reverse Tommy Wiseau, then?

I'm tempted to google the reference
but have decided that being told
Might be worth a laugh

[Geniasis]

I'm tempted to google the reference
but have decided that being told
Might be worth a laugh

Tommy Wiseau, creator and star of The Room, acted like he was making a magnum opus, then backpedaled on that when it turned out to be shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plz-bhcH ... re=related

^As you can see, Lisa is tearing him apart.

[GeneralHaNor]

I'm tempted to google the reference
but have decided that being told
Might be worth a laugh

Tommy Wiseau, creator and star of The Room, acted like he was making a magnum opus, then backpedaled on that when it turned out to be shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plz-bhcH ... re=related

^As you can see, Lisa is tearing him apart.

That show was horrible

[Geniasis]

That show was horrible

It was a movie, but yes. Yes it was.

[GeneralHaNor]

That show was horrible

It was a movie, but yes. Yes it was.

I saw it on television as an April's Fools Joke
Something about Irony

[Dakini]

Japan is very very well known for misogyny.

Women are mostly expected to be dowdy housewives.

That's ONE of the reasons I'm glad I've come to America. There are reasons I don't want to be here, but this reason is very powerful.

Yeah, my bf was telling me about how a lot of places in Japan require their female employees to wear make up and are allowed to do so. I haven't looked too much into whether there's legislation about pay discrepancies or whatnot, but this struck me as something that just shouldn't be (and I'm pretty sure if I complained about something like this here, this policy would be revoked quickly).

[The Deep Vault]

Japan is very very well known for misogyny.

Women are mostly expected to be dowdy housewives.

That's ONE of the reasons I'm glad I've come to America. There are reasons I don't want to be here, but this reason is very powerful.

Yeah, my bf was telling me about how a lot of places in Japan require their female employees to wear make up and are allowed to do so. I haven't looked too much into whether there's legislation about pay discrepancies or whatnot, but this struck me as something that just shouldn't be (and I'm pretty sure if I complained about something like this here, this policy would be revoked quickly).

Meh. I don't see the difference between that and normal dress codes...though I can definitely see Japan as being misogynist.

[Dakini]

Yeah, my bf was telling me about how a lot of places in Japan require their female employees to wear make up and are allowed to do so. I haven't looked too much into whether there's legislation about pay discrepancies or whatnot, but this struck me as something that just shouldn't be (and I'm pretty sure if I complained about something like this here, this policy would be revoked quickly).

Meh. I don't see the difference between that and normal dress codes...though I can definitely see Japan as being misogynist.

Dress codes are one thing... unless of course your dress code for women lacks the "pants" option.

It's one thing to say that your employees should dress presentably and perhaps make suggestions about personal hygiene and blah blah blah. It's another thing to tell (possibly) 50% of your employees that the only way they're presentable is if they cover their face in paint.

[The Deep Vault]

Meh. I don't see the difference between that and normal dress codes...though I can definitely see Japan as being misogynist.

Dress codes are one thing... unless of course your dress code for women lacks the "pants" option.

It's one thing to say that your employees should dress presentably and perhaps make suggestions about personal hygiene and blah blah blah. It's another thing to tell (possibly) 50% of your employees that the only way they're presentable is if they cover their face in paint.

I don't actually think different rules for different genders necessarily equals uneven rules for said genders.

Also, how does Japan define "women"?

[The Norwegian Blue]

Dress codes are one thing... unless of course your dress code for women lacks the "pants" option.

It's one thing to say that your employees should dress presentably and perhaps make suggestions about personal hygiene and blah blah blah. It's another thing to tell (possibly) 50% of your employees that the only way they're presentable is if they cover their face in paint.

I don't actually think different rules for different genders necessarily equals uneven rules for said genders.

Sure. I'm okay with a rule that says "female employees wear khaki slacks and blue shirts tailored for women and male employees wear khaki slacks and blue shirts tailored for men." That's not uneven. "Male employees are required not to wear any jewelry, but females can" is. "Females have to wear skirts even if it's freezing outside, but males can wear pants and be warm" is, too. "Females are required to wear make-up, but males aren't" very definitely is, and is deeply disturbing, to boot, since it implies that an unadorned female face is somehow indecent or unprofessional.

[The Norwegian Blue]

So you can prove that in every single instance where there were feminist who claimed to stand for men's rights that in all of the cases they were actually lieing?

Nope
But neither can you prove that such defense was always genuine in every single case
I doubt that it's even the majority
or even a small minority

And while that's a ridiculous assertion, what's even more ridiculous is that, even after having been called on it repeatedly, you're STILL trying to move the goalposts and pretend that your initial assertion wasn't that feminists NEVER stood up for men's rights.

[The Deep Vault]

I don't actually think different rules for different genders necessarily equals uneven rules for said genders.

Sure. I'm okay with a rule that says "female employees wear khaki slacks and blue shirts tailored for women and male employees wear khaki slacks and blue shirts tailored for men." That's not uneven. "Male employees are required not to wear any jewelry, but females can" is. "Females have to wear skirts even if it's freezing outside, but males can wear pants and be warm" is, too. "Females are required to wear make-up, but males aren't" very definitely is, and is deeply disturbing, to boot, since it implies that an unadorned female face is somehow indecent or unprofessional.

What's the difference between the two, though? What's the turning point that makes it "uneven"? (I can understand the second one, admittedly, but not as much the other)

Although personally, I do think a person's "gender" should be considered their actual gender and not biological sex, and if the standards are sex-based...oh, beyond even that, I'm dubious of normal dress codes. I still don't like the rule.

[Geniasis]

What's the difference between the two, though? What's the turning point that makes it "uneven"? (I can understand the second one, admittedly, but not as much the other)

Although personally, I do think a person's "gender" should be considered their actual gender and not biological sex, and if the standards are sex-based...oh, beyond even that, I'm dubious of normal dress codes. I still don't like the rule.

The problem is that they reinforce gender roles. Specifically that pants are for men, skirts are for women, jewelry is for women, unadorned faces are for men, makeup is for women.

A dress code is meant to ensure that employees dress professionally, but these go beyond that.

[Technotribalism]

What's the difference between the two, though? What's the turning point that makes it "uneven"? (I can understand the second one, admittedly, but not as much the other)

Although personally, I do think a person's "gender" should be considered their actual gender and not biological sex, and if the standards are sex-based...oh, beyond even that, I'm dubious of normal dress codes. I still don't like the rule.

The problem is that they reinforce gender roles. Specifically that pants are for men, skirts are for women, jewelry is for women, unadorned faces are for men, makeup is for women.

A dress code is meant to ensure that employees dress professionally, but these go beyond that.

Only if "women" is defined biologically...

[Geniasis]

Only if "women" is defined biologically...

That's true. In truth, very little would change. As the majority of people (from what I know) are cisgendered--that's the term, yes?--then the difference is nil; they define themselves the same way by the different criteria. Those who would be affected, I suspect they'd benefit.

[Ifreann]

Well at least that's how it often goes in General threads.

Exactly. Wherever he goes, NA leaves awe and fear in his wake. It is foretold that in the last days of the world, he shall rise up and devour the ignorant, the foolish, and those who misunderstand basic constitutional law, and they shall call him...Cthuljew!

...he's going to kill me now, you know.

Cultists Gentiles Gentiles with boobs get eaten first.

[The Norwegian Blue]

The problem is that they reinforce gender roles. Specifically that pants are for men, skirts are for women, jewelry is for women, unadorned faces are for men, makeup is for women.

A dress code is meant to ensure that employees dress professionally, but these go beyond that.

Only if "women" is defined biologically...

The fact that this sort of thing is nasty for transgendered people is one of many problems with it, yes, but even for completely cisgendered folks like me, I am very uncomfortable with being told I have to dress a certain way because of my gender. In my day-to-day life, I mostly wear men's shirts because I dislike drawing attention to my breasts, and women's clothing tends to be all about drawing the eye there. I don't wear skirts often because I get cold in them and always worry about accidentally flashing people if I have to bend over at all. I don't like wearing mascara because it makes my eyes itch and I don't think my lashes need augmentation. I don't wear much jewelry because I find it impractical, and I hate long or painted fingernails for the same reason. I would find it insulting and ridiculous if an employer informed me that I had to wear those things not because it was a standard for all employees but simply because I'm female in gender and sex, while male employees could go on dressing pretty much the way I currently do and be considered perfectly "professional."

[The Norwegian Blue]

Exactly. Wherever he goes, NA leaves awe and fear in his wake. It is foretold that in the last days of the world, he shall rise up and devour the ignorant, the foolish, and those who misunderstand basic constitutional law, and they shall call him...Cthuljew!

...he's going to kill me now, you know.

Cultists Gentiles Gentiles with boobs get eaten first.

That's entirely true, for certain definitions of "eaten."

[Bottle]

Meh. I don't see the difference between that and normal dress codes...though I can definitely see Japan as being misogynist.

Dress codes are one thing... unless of course your dress code for women lacks the "pants" option.

It's one thing to say that your employees should dress presentably and perhaps make suggestions about personal hygiene and blah blah blah. It's another thing to tell (possibly) 50% of your employees that the only way they're presentable is if they cover their face in paint.

It's also a money-sink. Women have to spend all that extra time and money getting their makeup on. For somebody like me, who has lived on a grad student paycheck for 6 years, that adds up to a fuckton of money. Even if I wanted to wear makeup, that money would have to come from somewhere...and I don't have much to spare.

[Galloism]

Dress codes are one thing... unless of course your dress code for women lacks the "pants" option.

It's one thing to say that your employees should dress presentably and perhaps make suggestions about personal hygiene and blah blah blah. It's another thing to tell (possibly) 50% of your employees that the only way they're presentable is if they cover their face in paint.

It's also a money-sink. Women have to spend all that extra time and money getting their makeup on. For somebody like me, who has lived on a grad student paycheck for 6 years, that adds up to a fuckton of money. Even if I wanted to wear makeup, that money would have to come from somewhere...and I don't have much to spare.

I think you should save your money to deal with your Sarlacc issue, IMO.

[Bottle]

It's also a money-sink. Women have to spend all that extra time and money getting their makeup on. For somebody like me, who has lived on a grad student paycheck for 6 years, that adds up to a fuckton of money. Even if I wanted to wear makeup, that money would have to come from somewhere...and I don't have much to spare.

I think you should save your money to deal with your Sarlacc issue, IMO.

Only issue I have is that she hungers.

[Galloism]

I think you should save your money to deal with your Sarlacc issue, IMO.

Only issue I have is that she hungers.

I really amused you with that didn't I?

[Bottle]

Only issue I have is that she hungers.

I really amused you with that didn't I?

Oh lord yes. I'm just waiting for an opportune moment to spring the image on Himself.

[Dakini]

Dress codes are one thing... unless of course your dress code for women lacks the "pants" option.

It's one thing to say that your employees should dress presentably and perhaps make suggestions about personal hygiene and blah blah blah. It's another thing to tell (possibly) 50% of your employees that the only way they're presentable is if they cover their face in paint.

It's also a money-sink. Women have to spend all that extra time and money getting their makeup on. For somebody like me, who has lived on a grad student paycheck for 6 years, that adds up to a fuckton of money. Even if I wanted to wear makeup, that money would have to come from somewhere...and I don't have much to spare.

I'm in a similar boat (grad student paycheque, not as long though). I mostly don't have the time to do makeup though. Even if I was inclined to buy some, I probably wouldn't because I haven't used up the stuff I bought in high school (I only wear it when I'm dressing fancy or feel bored and like I want to wear makeup... or for hallowe'en).

If someone instituted a policy that female grad students had to wear makeup at my school, I'd start coming in looking like a clown until they stopped that policy.