Feminism, misogyny and misandry.

[Dakini]

How are women more valuable than men? We're not.

Well, actully if you needed to repopulate the human race you'd need alot fo women but very few men.
So in that respect you are.

The human race has no problem with needing to repopulate at present.

Also if you wanted some decent genetic diversity you'd be wise to include a lot of men too.

[Arborlawn]

No, the life of a woman is too valuable to be expendable for a war. But, if she really wants to give it all up like that, then whatever. Nevertheless, a women and children are not supposed to die in war.

How are women more valuable than men? We're not.

A woman's life is always more valuable then a man's. It is hard for child to grow up without a father, but even harder without a mother. Women are nurturers of the world, and seeing as they can work as hard as men, can support a themselves and their children with their children's help. Women have abilities and incentives that men don't, and these abilities are needed more than what I man can do.

You always say that during sex, our part is only 5 mins and your part is 9 months. You always say that all we are good for is working and making children. Well, if this what we men are limited too, then it is obvious what is more valuable, and we need to preserve that.

[Maineiacs]

Some men are misogynistic, sexist dickheads, and some feminists are misandric bitches that don't want to undo the sexual hierarchy, but reverse it. People suck; learn to live with it.

[Arborlawn]

Well, actully if you needed to repopulate the human race you'd need alot fo women but very few men.
So in that respect you are.

The human race has no problem with needing to repopulate at present.

Also if you wanted some decent genetic diversity you'd be wise to include a lot of men too.

Not necessarily. As long as you have 1 of each prime race, the children of those children will carry it on, and so on and so forth. Once again meaning women are more valuable.

[Kiskaanak]

Okay, I just finished page 37, and I cannot. Fucking. Go on. The collective ignorance and vitriol is astounding. I'm trying hard to believe that some of these "non-feminist women" coming out of the woodwork (and hi, we haven't seen you around here until now) are just people trolling and trying to use an appeal to authority---"I (play a woman on the internet) and I'm okay with misogyny, so shut up, feminazis!" but I have to admit the possibility that people who have somehow learned to use a computer are really still that blindingly misinformed. I now have less faith in humanity than when I signed on a few minutes ago. Well done.

A lot of women seem to want to 'distance themselves from feminism' I think in part because they misunderstand it as much as the men going on an on about feminazis do. It's sad that such a ridiculous perception of feminism has flourished, but yeah. Of course it's all part of the 'feminism won now why are you still complaining' meme.

[Ifreann]

How are women more valuable than men? We're not.

A woman's life is always more valuable then a man's. It is hard for child to grow up without a father, but even harder without a mother. Women are nurturers of the world, and seeing as they can work as hard as men, can support a themselves and their children with their children's help. Women have abilities and incentives that men don't, and these abilities are needed more than what I man can do.

You always say that during sex, our part is only 5 mins and your part is 9 months. You always say that all we are good for is working and making children. Well, if this what we men are limited too, then it is obvious what is more valuable, and we need to preserve that.

Everything in this post is wrong. All of it.

[Ifreann]

The human race has no problem with needing to repopulate at present.

Also if you wanted some decent genetic diversity you'd be wise to include a lot of men too.

Not necessarily. As long as you have 1 of each prime race, the children of those children will carry it on, and so on and so forth. Once again meaning women are more valuable.

And whole will that first generation of children breed with? Their half-brothers and -sisters?

[Peepelonia]

How are women more valuable than men? We're not.

A woman's life is always more valuable then a man's. It is hard for child to grow up without a father, but even harder without a mother. Women are nurturers of the world, and seeing as they can work as hard as men, can support a themselves and their children with their children's help. Women have abilities and incentives that men don't, and these abilities are needed more than what I man can do.

You always say that during sex, our part is only 5 mins and your part is 9 months. You always say that all we are good for is working and making children. Well, if this what we men are limited too, then it is obvious what is more valuable, and we need to preserve that.

Meh I grewup without my mother, my dad did agreat job with us.

[Kiskaanak]

Like most of these discussions, there are plenty of, "I'm not sexist but" statements and "not always but generally" qualifications when blanket statements are made. Appeals to biology, and not very well-thought out objections and claims to "how things are". Of course, when called on it, these people get offended and feel all under attack and can't back themselves up, so it circles back to 'feminazis being unreasonable' instead of 'oh hey I haven't actually thought this through have I?'

[Geniasis]

A woman's life is always more valuable then a man's. It is hard for child to grow up without a father, but even harder without a mother. Women are nurturers of the world, and seeing as they can work as hard as men, can support a themselves and their children with their children's help. Women have abilities and incentives that men don't, and these abilities are needed more than what I man can do.

You always say that during sex, our part is only 5 mins and your part is 9 months. You always say that all we are good for is working and making children. Well, if this what we men are limited too, then it is obvious what is more valuable, and we need to preserve that.

This isn't even Biblical, ironically.

[Arborlawn]

The problem I have with Feminism is that it generalizes that every man is a rapist, stupid drunk, who has no feelings, and is a misogynist. The problem I have with misogyny is that hating women is completely wrong. The problem I have with misandry, well, I'm a man so that is pretty explainable.

[Tokos]

To the first: Why not? Why should men fight in wars but women shouldn't?

Wrong question. The question is why women should fight in wars.

[Geniasis]

The problem I have with Feminism is that it generalizes that every man is a rapist, stupid drunk, who has no feelings, and is a misogynist.

The problem I have with Republicans is that they beat up poor people and kick puppies into incinerators.

...

Wait, what do you mean Republicans don't do that?

[Arborlawn]

A woman's life is always more valuable then a man's. It is hard for child to grow up without a father, but even harder without a mother. Women are nurturers of the world, and seeing as they can work as hard as men, can support a themselves and their children with their children's help. Women have abilities and incentives that men don't, and these abilities are needed more than what I man can do.

You always say that during sex, our part is only 5 mins and your part is 9 months. You always say that all we are good for is working and making children. Well, if this what we men are limited too, then it is obvious what is more valuable, and we need to preserve that.

This isn't even Biblical, ironically.

It wasn't meant to be biblical, I have plenty of Biblical Verses in the New Testament that define a man's duty and a woman's duty, but then the feminist will jump onto the Lord for hating women, which is wrong.

[Kazomal]

In response to the OP, my only problems with feminism (/the feminist establishment/people who self-identify as feminists) arise when feminism serves not to promote gender equality and education about destructive gender memes, but to increase the political and social power of it's political leaders and base, although this is a problem with any movement that becomes part of the power establishment. Also, when people who have self-identified as feminists present things like domestic assault and rape as Things That Men Do To Women, and tend to ignore gender issues that effect men (not trying to say this is all feminists, just something that feminists have done that bothers me).

As for the academic feminist establishment, I think that gender studies is an important area of exploration, especially with the sociological lens academic feminism tends to be centered around, although I do feel that they are at times much too attached to that lens, and too political. I also think that they have their priorities mixed up sometimes.

Additionally, there are always the extremists, and they're obnoxious, but this is true of any movement.


Keep in mind, however, that I am only weakly familiar with these things, and I keep that in mind when forming my opinions (I'll probably spend today doing some research on the subject, prompted by this thread). Also, criticizing the flaws in something doesn't mean that you're "against it." I'm not even sure what being "against feminism" means, as an ideological movement, especially once like feminism, is extremely hard to define, and will be different in the mind of each person, feminist or not, and of course each person is an individual and none can speak for another, so even if you have a problem with a specific self-identified feminist, that doesn't mean you have a problem with "feminism."

[Dakini]

How are women more valuable than men? We're not.

A woman's life is always more valuable then a man's.

No it's not.

It is hard for child to grow up without a father, but even harder without a mother.

What about people who don't have children? If it's hard to grow up without a father, then wouldn't a father be more valuable than a woman who doesn't have kids? Further, it's not harder to grow up without a mother than it is without a father.

Women are nurturers of the world,

No we're not.

and seeing as they can work as hard as men, can support a themselves and their children with their children's help. Women have abilities and incentives that men don't, and these abilities are needed more than what I man can do.

Not really...

You always say that during sex, our part is only 5 mins and your part is 9 months.

1. If a man's part in sex only lasts five minutes, he's doing it wrong. Foreplay is important, everybody.
2. A 9 month pregnancy is not sex. Sex can happen independent of a pregnancy. Pregnancies can happen independent of sex.
3. I do not say that. I might say that men don't do a lot of work for reproduction, but that's not the same as sex.

You always say that all we are good for is working and making children.

No I don't. My bf is good for a lot more than working and making children.

Well, if this what we men are limited too, then it is obvious what is more valuable, and we need to preserve that.

Uh... not really at all. Your point is not remotely proven.

[Geniasis]

It wasn't meant to be biblical, I have plenty of Biblical Verses in the New Testament that define a man's duty and a woman's duty, but then the feminist will jump onto the Lord for hating women, which is wrong.

And I have one that nicely illustrates that there's no significant difference between men and women as far as God is concerned.

[Dakini]

The problem I have with Feminism is that it generalizes that every man is a rapist, stupid drunk, who has no feelings, and is a misogynist.

No it doesn't. My bf is a feminist and he doesn't consider himself a rapist who is a stupid drunk with no feelings and hates women.

[Arborlawn]

The problem I have with Feminism is that it generalizes that every man is a rapist, stupid drunk, who has no feelings, and is a misogynist.

The problem I have with Republicans is that they beat up poor people and kick puppies into incinerators.

...

Wait, what do you mean Republicans don't do that?

I'm A Republican and I support Universal Healthcare and motives to provide a better Pension System. I believe that the Welfare System should truly benefit those who truly need help, because everyone is capable of becoming poor. Now, once you take your foot out of your mouth we can start talking.

[Dakini]

To the first: Why not? Why should men fight in wars but women shouldn't?

Wrong question. The question is why women should fight in wars.

They "should" fight for the same reasons that men "should" fight.

[Geniasis]

I'm A Republican and I support Universal Healthcare and motives to provide a better Pension System. I believe that the Welfare System should truly benefit those who truly need help, because everyone is capable of becoming poor. Now, once you take your foot out of your mouth we can start talking.

You miss the point. Do you know what your problem with feminism, and my "problem with Republicans" have in common?

They're both fictional.

[Arborlawn]

The problem I have with Feminism is that it generalizes that every man is a rapist, stupid drunk, who has no feelings, and is a misogynist.

No it doesn't. My bf is a feminist and he doesn't consider himself a rapist who is a stupid drunk with no feelings and hates women.

There is no need for all this shit. The Equality Act has been passed to make men and women equal. If you don't like it, then there are 6 BILLION other people in the world! One of them is bound to appeal to you!

[Tokos]

They "should" fight for the same reasons that men "should" fight.

Which in most wars is not the defence of the realm. If female soldiers aren't necessary somewhere like Afghanistan, why introduce them? It's a pretty poor show when a nation gets its women to do its fighting for it.

Something like Soviet Russian women soldiers in WW2 is obviously different.

[The Norwegian Blue]

The problem I have with Republicans is that they beat up poor people and kick puppies into incinerators.

...

Wait, what do you mean Republicans don't do that?

I'm A Republican and I support Universal Healthcare and motives to provide a better Pension System. I believe that the Welfare System should truly benefit those who truly need help, because everyone is capable of becoming poor. Now, once you take your foot out of your mouth we can start talking.

That whooshing sound you just heard was Geniasis's point sailing directly over your head.

By the way, you know what makes your assertion that feminists believe "every man" is a rapist/drunk/etc. even funnier? Off the top of my head, pretty much every poster who has defended feminism in this thread is either a man or in a happy romantic relationship with a man. Are you honestly under the impression that I'd waste my time on my boyfriend if I believed he was a stupid, misogynistic, drunken rapist?

[Dakini]

No it doesn't. My bf is a feminist and he doesn't consider himself a rapist who is a stupid drunk with no feelings and hates women.

There is no need for all this shit. The Equality Act has been passed to make men and women equal. If you don't like it, then there are 6 BILLION other people in the world! One of them is bound to appeal to you!

Uh... he doesn't consider himself any of these things because he isn't any of these things. I'm not sure what was so confusing there, but hopefully this clarifies things. If that doesn't, maybe this does:

I am a feminist and I love (some) men. Especially my boyfriend, who is an amazing human being.