NationStates

Dakini wrote:

Hayteria wrote:... have you any actual counterargument? o.o

I'll leave that to Bottle if she feels so inclined.

I just meant that this is somewhat typical of your trend of "men are the bigger victims here" type comments.

Yeah, for a minute there I was actually considering the possibility of a worthwhile conversation on the subject, but it seems we can't go more than two posts without Hay reminding me that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE must be in some way related to the Everest-sized chips on his poor masculine shoulders.

Yawn.

Bendira wrote:I might catch shit from this, but I think some women need to get dropped. They often scream and antagonize men because they know that men "can't" hit them. They should get knocked the fuck out, just like anybody else.

Yes, that's the popular position: some women deserve to get hit, and men are right to hit them. Congrats, you've just stated the status quo.

Bottle wrote:

Dakini wrote:I'll leave that to Bottle if she feels so inclined.

I just meant that this is somewhat typical of your trend of "men are the bigger victims here" type comments.

Yeah, for a minute there I was actually considering the possibility of a worthwhile conversation on the subject, but it seems we can't go more than two posts without Hay reminding me that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE must be in some way related to the Everest-sized chips on his poor masculine shoulders.

Yawn.

but, you see, when he was in 6th grade, some kids were mean to him!

Just watch it though, he's totally going to make a thread about your post now. In 7 or 8 years.

Bendira wrote:I might catch shit from this, but I think some women need to get dropped. They often scream and antagonize men because they know that men "can't" hit them. They should get knocked the fuck out, just like anybody else.

no

the woman shouldnt be "dropped" any more than "anybody else" would.

you need to control your anger even in your imagination. there is no good excuse for hitting anyone hard enough to knock them down because of something they said.

Neo Art wrote:

Bottle wrote:Yeah, for a minute there I was actually considering the possibility of a worthwhile conversation on the subject, but it seems we can't go more than two posts without Hay reminding me that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE must be in some way related to the Everest-sized chips on his poor masculine shoulders.

Yawn.

but, you see, when he was in 6th grade, some kids were mean to him!

Just watch it though, he's totally going to make a thread about your post now. In 7 or 8 years.

Hmm, wonder if it will be "Women are sexist against men sometimes! Feminists totally deny that!" or "Some people make fun of anybody who disagrees with them!" or "It's unfair how sometimes when you complain about something people just tell you to shut up!"

Ashmoria wrote:

Bendira wrote:I might catch shit from this, but I think some women need to get dropped. They often scream and antagonize men because they know that men "can't" hit them. They should get knocked the fuck out, just like anybody else.

no

the woman shouldnt be "dropped" any more than "anybody else" would.

you need to control your anger even in your imagination. there is no good excuse for hitting anyone hard enough to knock them down because of something they said.

It's like the "use your words" lesson from kindergarten just didn't sink in for some people.

Neo Art wrote:

Bottle wrote:Yeah, for a minute there I was actually considering the possibility of a worthwhile conversation on the subject, but it seems we can't go more than two posts without Hay reminding me that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE must be in some way related to the Everest-sized chips on his poor masculine shoulders.

Yawn.

but, you see, when he was in 6th grade, some kids were mean to him!

Just watch it though, he's totally going to make a thread about your post now. In 7 or 8 years.

Wrong again. I was actually considering giving up on this site already, but all this automatic dismissiveness of my ideas with ad hominem crap only convinces me further.

Bottle, the post Dakini was responding to was more along the lines of "even if you grant certain assumptions, X isn't implied" than of any sort of complaining about a "chip on my shoulder" but I guess you were missing the point after all.

Hayteria wrote:The assumption I had in mind when reading and interpreting the anecdote was "it's okay for them to provoke him as much as they want, but as soon as he acts violent as a result, everyone else gets to judge him for it." If they DIDN'T provoke him on purpose then that changes a lot. (Though obviously not everything.)

And he can't stand up for himself verbally because...?

Nobody said it was perfectly OK for the girls to "provoke" him. They just said he was wrong to hit the girl.

He'd probably have worded it "making excuses for what the girls said and pretending it wasn't about provocation" rather than siding with them. I would think siding with them would imply agreeing with the assumption that it was about provocation and still believing that the guy was in the wrong and the girls were not.

You don't know the guy. This assumptions by you are pretty useless.

And what about those girls themselves? There seems to be no comment on whether or not those girls later apologized to him for being mean to him, or whether or not the girls tried to clarify their intentions, or whether or not those girls ever said they had any sympathy for him as a result of what happened, etc...

Why should they apologize to a guy who smacked one of them? No one owes him an apology. He needs to learn to control himself. If he apologizes first, then some sort of acknowledgement that "Yeah, we were being obnoxious" might be nice.

If the latter, he'd probably go to a more mainstream site like youtube or facebook for a greater volume of sympathy.

You know this how? Maybe he just likes TV Tropes.

Not necessarily. He gave examples of things the girls said, labels like "dork" and "gay" and "ugly" etc... which may seem mild on their own merits, but again, homosexuals, nerds, and the ugly are easy targets of scorn in our society, and while these labels aren't exactly limited to cases where they are completely truthful, I would say that even if the first two were so much as RUMOURED about him, (the last one you could tell just by looking at him, of course) then obviously it would be a case of the girls going after sensitive subjects for him. If it was anywhere near as continuous and prolonged as the guy claims, then while it obviously wouldn't justify his reaction, it would make it far more understandable, and would reflect far more poorly on everyone else for siding with those girls.

OK, I had forgotten the part where he quoted them. Still, those are pretty generic insults that people throw around without really thinking. A "sensitive subject" would be if his mom was strung out on heroin or something and they brought that up. If he IS gay, he needs to come out and find some friends who will support him. If he's not gay, then it's really not personal.

Anyway, back on topic, girls get picked on like that too, and smacking people is not an acceptable response.

I did. (Or might have, granted, but alternative explanations I've heard for it don't sound very convincing.)

And yet the teacher was on your side...

I'm guessing your family would have had enough sympathy to listen to your version of the story as well, and take your side.

There are probably a few people in your class who either didn't see what happened or are really really shy and didn't have the nerve to speak up. If you talked to them one on one afterward, would every last person in your class be against you? Probably not.

But everyone this guy talked to agreed he was wrong.

Bendira wrote:I might catch shit from this, but I think some women need to get dropped. They often scream and antagonize men because they know that men "can't" hit them. They should get knocked the fuck out, just like anybody else.

Right cos men never scream or antagonize anyone...

Neo Art wrote:

Bottle wrote:Yeah, for a minute there I was actually considering the possibility of a worthwhile conversation on the subject, but it seems we can't go more than two posts without Hay reminding me that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE must be in some way related to the Everest-sized chips on his poor masculine shoulders.

Yawn.

but, you see, when he was in 6th grade, some kids were mean to him!

Just watch it though, he's totally going to make a thread about your post now. In 7 or 8 years.

I'm afraid your sarcasm is only going to make it worse.

Ashmoria wrote:no

the woman shouldnt be "dropped" any more than "anybody else" would.

you need to control your anger even in your imagination. there is no good excuse for hitting anyone hard enough to knock them down because of something they said.

I disagree to be honest, but now we're just getting into personal morals and etc.

Nazi Flower Power wrote:

Bendira wrote:I might catch shit from this, but I think some women need to get dropped. They often scream and antagonize men because they know that men "can't" hit them. They should get knocked the fuck out, just like anybody else.

Right cos men never scream or antagonize anyone...

He said 'just like anybody else'.

Georgism wrote:

Nazi Flower Power wrote:
Right cos men never scream or antagonize anyone...

He said 'just like anybody else'.

He said anybody else can get punched out. He only said women "scream and antagonize" men.

Bottle wrote:Yes, that's the popular position: some women deserve to get hit, and men are right to hit them. Congrats, you've just stated the status quo.

Well, I dunno about him but personally I think some people deserve to get hit and some people are right to hit them. For example, I was once shouted at by a woman for holding the door open for her. Had she been male, there's a fair chance I'd have hit him. She wasn't, and I didn't, but I did want to.

Meh. I'm going to bed, It's hard to type.

Nazi Flower Power wrote:He said anybody else can get punched out. He only said women "scream and antagonize" men.

Oh, yeah. Didn't read properly

I'm going to bed before I piss someone off

Georgism wrote:For example, I was once shouted at by a woman for holding the door open for her. Had she been male, there's a fair chance I'd have hit him. She wasn't, and I didn't, but I did want to.

A little "Fuck you!" ought to be sufficient for something like that.

Georgism wrote:

Bottle wrote:Yes, that's the popular position: some women deserve to get hit, and men are right to hit them. Congrats, you've just stated the status quo.

Well, I dunno about him but personally I think some people deserve to get hit and some people are right to hit them. For example, I was once shouted at by a woman for holding the door open for her. Had she been male, there's a fair chance I'd have hit him. She wasn't, and I didn't, but I did want to.

Meh. I'm going to bed, It's hard to type.

and you would have been wrong either time.

Nazi Flower Power wrote:

Georgism wrote:For example, I was once shouted at by a woman for holding the door open for her. Had she been male, there's a fair chance I'd have hit him. She wasn't, and I didn't, but I did want to.

A little "Fuck you!" ought to be sufficient for something like that.

Yeah really.

Though the exact wording would vary based on exactly what she shouts.

Is this an appropriate time to point out that I've opened doors for men (because I got there first and this is what I do) only to have them refuse to enter the door until I did which used to result in standing outside for an extra amount of time until one of us gave up and now results in me giving up right away and going in because it isn't worth the hassle.

Ashmoria wrote:and you would have been wrong either time.

In your opinion, yes.

And in the eyes of the law, which is what I really worried about.

Dakini wrote:Yeah really.

Though the exact wording would vary based on exactly what she shouts.

It was a long rant about me treating her as unequal etc. by holding the door open as I'm saying she's weaker etc.

Pretty much stereotypical "feminist" stuff rather than actual feminist stuff.

Is this an appropriate time to point out that I've opened doors for men (because I got there first and this is what I do) only to have them refuse to enter the door until I did which used to result in standing outside for an extra amount of time until one of us gave up and now results in me giving up right away and going in because it isn't worth the hassle.

If you did that I'd just say thankyou.