Communism!A Dream or a Ideology?

[Occupied Deutschland]

But in a communist society, if everyone is paid within a rough range of $100,000 - $500,000 (or it's equivalent worth in goods and services) for the jobs that they do, then that means that people who are doing the dirty work are getting paid many times more than they would be in a capitalist system. That seems like a pretty sweet motivator to me.

The problem being that the people doing the highly specialized work, ala doctors, get paid little to nothing more than the people doing the "dirty work". That seems like it would cause a lack of motivation to me, and if no one is making any sort of investment in becoming a doctor, researcher, etc. well, everyone is worse off.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Why? Because inequality is an intrinsic bad?

Yes, it's relative wealth that makes us happy.

I'd say it's more accomplishment that makes us happy, and that is reflected oftentimes (not all the time) in our wealth. For example, if there was a revolution that converted the world to a communist hell-hole PARADISE, you would probably feel pretty happy, that doesn't really have a monetary quality to it.

[Trotskylvania]

Going to be incredibly pedantic for a minute.

Communism, ipso facto, cannot be an ideology, as ideology is the superstructure of a class society. Communism, as a stateless, classless society, can have no ideology, as there is neither a dominant class nor a superstructure imposed upon society.

It is incorrect to refer to political philosophies as ideologies unless they form the basis of the superstructure of society. Hence, in the Soviet Union, the ideology of the state can accurately be called some form of Marxism-Leninism. But a western Marxist-Leninist, if you ignore for the moment how they were cynically used to support the Soviet state's interests, is not an agent of an ideology. Not yet at least. His group would need to take power, and impose their philosophy as the social superstructure on society, in order for it to become ideology.

/pedant

[Mercator Terra]

Going to be incredibly pedantic for a minute.

Communism, ipso facto, cannot be an ideology, as ideology is the superstructure of a class society. Communism, as a stateless, classless society, can have no ideology, as there is neither a dominant class nor a superstructure imposed upon society.

It is incorrect to refer to political philosophies as ideologies unless they form the basis of the superstructure of society. Hence, in the Soviet Union, the ideology of the state can accurately be called some form of Marxism-Leninism. But a western Marxist-Leninist, if you ignore for the moment how they were cynically used to support the Soviet state's interests, is not an agent of an ideology. Not yet at least. His group would need to take power, and impose their philosophy as the social superstructure on society, in order for it to become ideology.

/pedant

You are wrong.

Political ideologies have two dimensions:
Goals: how society should work (or be arranged).
and
Methods: the most appropriate ways to achieve the ideal arrangement.

[Jakaragua]

But in a communist society, if everyone is paid within a rough range of $100,000 - $500,000 (or it's equivalent worth in goods and services) for the jobs that they do, then that means that people who are doing the dirty work are getting paid many times more than they would be in a capitalist system. That seems like a pretty sweet motivator to me.

The problem being that the people doing the highly specialized work, ala doctors, get paid little to nothing more than the people doing the "dirty work". That seems like it would cause a lack of motivation to me, and if no one is making any sort of investment in becoming a doctor, researcher, etc. well, everyone is worse off.

I know this sounds crazy to you but perhaps people want to become doctors for altruistic reasons. Being lazy at work because of your pay would be frowned upon in socialist or communist society because doctors are created because society encourages it and pressures individuals who are capable into doing it. .

[Great Nepal]

The problem being that the people doing the highly specialized work, ala doctors, get paid little to nothing more than the people doing the "dirty work". That seems like it would cause a lack of motivation to me, and if no one is making any sort of investment in becoming a doctor, researcher, etc. well, everyone is worse off.

I know this sounds crazy to you but perhaps people want to become doctors for altruistic reasons. Being lazy at work because of your pay would be frowned upon in socialist or communist society because doctors are created because society encourages it and pressures individuals who are capable into doing it. .

And how do you know who is capable of being a doctor if they never go to school or never go above year 5-6?

[Mercator Terra]

The problem being that the people doing the highly specialized work, ala doctors, get paid little to nothing more than the people doing the "dirty work". That seems like it would cause a lack of motivation to me, and if no one is making any sort of investment in becoming a doctor, researcher, etc. well, everyone is worse off.

I know this sounds crazy to you but perhaps people want to become doctors for altruistic reasons. Being lazy at work because of your pay would be frowned upon in socialist or communist society because doctors are created because society encourages it and pressures individuals who are capable into doing it. .

Altruism is not real. People do things for pleasure. So then even so called altruistic things are egotistical.

[Mercator Terra]

I know this sounds crazy to you but perhaps people want to become doctors for altruistic reasons. Being lazy at work because of your pay would be frowned upon in socialist or communist society because doctors are created because society encourages it and pressures individuals who are capable into doing it. .

And how do you know who is capable of being a doctor if they never go to school or never go above year 5-6?

School is for squares anything is possible in a communist society silly.

[Jakaragua]

I know this sounds crazy to you but perhaps people want to become doctors for altruistic reasons. Being lazy at work because of your pay would be frowned upon in socialist or communist society because doctors are created because society encourages it and pressures individuals who are capable into doing it. .

And how do you know who is capable of being a doctor if they never go to school or never go above year 5-6?

I'd thought you'd know this, but come on. Any leftist is for freely accessible, state-funded education.

[Great Nepal]

And how do you know who is capable of being a doctor if they never go to school or never go above year 5-6?

I'd thought you'd know this, but come on. Any leftist is for freely accessible, state-funded education.

Yes but why will I waste 14-15 years of my life going to school when I will earn a lot more if I start to work from age of 7-8?

[Jakaragua]

I know this sounds crazy to you but perhaps people want to become doctors for altruistic reasons. Being lazy at work because of your pay would be frowned upon in socialist or communist society because doctors are created because society encourages it and pressures individuals who are capable into doing it. .

Altruism is not real. People do things for pleasure. So then even so called altruistic things are egotistical.

Here's a dose of altrusism. I love you.

But seriously: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-eU5xZW ... r_embedded

That baby is such a selfish egoist!

[The REAL Glasers]

I must tell you that I am a Stalinist and yes I actually like the idea of purging the Right in gulags and and traitors to the state and every other lowlife

So I guess you also support the idea of crippling your own military to the point that it can't function.

[Jakaragua]

I'd thought you'd know this, but come on. Any leftist is for freely accessible, state-funded education.

Yes but why will I waste 14-15 years of my life going to school when I will earn a lot more if I start to work from age of 7-8?

Because you wouldn't have to. Child exploitation is a no go, it's a for-profit Capitalistic move to approve it.

[Mercator Terra]

Altruism is not real. People do things for pleasure. So then even so called altruistic things are egotistical.

Here's a dose of altrusism. I love you.

But seriously: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-eU5xZW ... r_embedded

That baby is such a selfish egoist!

I still dont see your point
Everything you do is for pleasure.

[Great Nepal]

Yes but why will I waste 14-15 years of my life going to school when I will earn a lot more if I start to work from age of 7-8?

Because you wouldn't have to. Child exploitation is a no go, it's a for-profit Capitalistic move to approve it.

I know I wouldn't have to but I will cos I will be a lot rich that way than if I would go to school and "waste" 14-15 years of my life.

[Jakaragua]

Here's a dose of altrusism. I love you.

But seriously: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-eU5xZW ... r_embedded

That baby is such a selfish egoist!

I still dont see your point
Everything you do is for pleasure.

Did that baby have much pleasure helping that man open that cupboard?

No, but he did it to be helpful.

[Jakaragua]

Because you wouldn't have to. Child exploitation is a no go, it's a for-profit Capitalistic move to approve it.

I know I wouldn't have to but I will cos I will be a lot rich that way than if I would go to school and "waste" 14-15 years of my life.

You wouldn't be rich, because what job will pay for 3 or 4 years of education, other than tedious, manual labour? (Because that's basically what most child labour is)

[Mercator Terra]

I still dont see your point
Everything you do is for pleasure.

Did that baby have much pleasure helping that man open that cupboard?

No, but he did it to be helpful.

The baby did it because it got pleasure from helping that man. No matter how little or much every action you do you get pleasure from it or you perceive you will.

[Mercator Terra]

I know I wouldn't have to but I will cos I will be a lot rich that way than if I would go to school and "waste" 14-15 years of my life.

You wouldn't be rich, because what job will pay for 3 or 4 years of education, other than tedious, manual labour? (Because that's basically what most child labour is)

Who says child labor has to be tedious? Children dont have a amount of education or experience so if a child wanted a job how could they get a non labor job?

[Great Nepal]

I know I wouldn't have to but I will cos I will be a lot rich that way than if I would go to school and "waste" 14-15 years of my life.

You wouldn't be rich, because what job will pay for 3 or 4 years of education, other than tedious, manual labour? (Because that's basically what most child labour is)

But in communist society, I will be paid as much as a doctor even if I haven't even gone to school..

OR, I could just sit in home and still get paid as doctor since everyone deserves equal money and credit in communist so city.

[Oceanarctica]

Even if you had gone to school, you may be unsuited to the work. Not everyone is capable of becoming a doctor. Not everybody is creative enough to become an artist. Not everyone is suited for hard labor.
I suppose that ideally, there would be a particular nitch that an individual would fit into, however as long as there is no limits on free will, there is no way to see such a thing come to fruition. Then comes the issues on, morality. As a leader, and as a government, what right do you have to decide for the people what sort of life they should lead? Certainly, they would thank you for it. Of course, it would depend entirely on how you went about it.

[Concordeia]

I know this sounds crazy to you but perhaps people want to become doctors for altruistic reasons. Being lazy at work because of your pay would be frowned upon in socialist or communist society because doctors are created because society encourages it and pressures individuals who are capable into doing it. .

Altruism is not real. People do things for pleasure. So then even so called altruistic things are egotistical.

Speak for yourself. Not everyone does stuff because they enjoy it. Hell, I had to clean up leaves just a few hours ago and I didn't do it because I like picking up leaves (I HATE it). I did it because my parents needed me to.

[Mercator Terra]

Altruism is not real. People do things for pleasure. So then even so called altruistic things are egotistical.

Speak for yourself. Not everyone does stuff because they enjoy it. Hell, I had to clean up leaves just a few hours ago and I didn't do it because I like picking up leaves (I HATE it). I did it because my parents needed me to.

You valued not getting yelled at by your parents over not raking the leaves. You get pleasure from not getting yelled at.

[Concordeia]

I'd thought you'd know this, but come on. Any leftist is for freely accessible, state-funded education.

Yes but why will I waste 14-15 years of my life going to school when I will earn a lot more if I start to work from age of 7-8?

No reason you couldn't find some sort of employment suitable for children while going to school as well (at least if the whole age barrier wasn't present in terms of employment). I think that would be a great way to build up both knowledge and a good work ethic.

[Concordeia]

Speak for yourself. Not everyone does stuff because they enjoy it. Hell, I had to clean up leaves just a few hours ago and I didn't do it because I like picking up leaves (I HATE it). I did it because my parents needed me to.

You valued not getting yelled at by your parents over not raking the leaves. You get pleasure from not getting yelled at.

Pleasure isn't a lack of sadness, fear, anger or any other non-happy emotions. Pleasure has to involve actually obtaining happiness or fulfillment.