who is smarter men or women?

[Tahar Joblis]

No doubt about it, women and men have different cognitive resources and thus different cognitive performances. By instance women have far better verbal skills, they use 3 times more words in a day than men.

Status of this claim: Definitely false, though a very persistent myth for some reason.

Women perform much better on empathy issues. Their motoric system is different, women have a much finer motoric and thus perform better on issues like typewriting. The raw motorics of men are better. If you ever saw a woman throwing a ball or playing soccer then you know what I mean: it’s often hilarious.

The fastest typist I know is probably male; the best at throwing balls is probably female.

Men generally have a lot more muscle (especially upper body) but the actual coordination of ball-handling, etc? The majority of the difference in technique at the normal level of play are demonstrably in basic level training, rather than neurology; the majority in difference in technique at the top level is largely muscular rather than cognitive.

Women have a much better colour sight as men and count far less people with a colour deficit.

This has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with rod and cone structure and the X-linked nature of most of those genes.

Men are more adventurous and love to try out new things, women prefer a stable condition.

And this is biological, or due to socialization?

I could fill an encyclopaedia about the difference in cognitive performances and sexe.

And perhaps two or three with scientifically inadequate information. There is far more myth than fact in circulation about gender differences in cognition, and nowhere near all of the differences you're talking about are cognitive differences. You could implant a female brain in a male body with sex-linked colorblindness and the result would still be a colorblind person.

[Big Jim P]

Women allow men to think they run the world. Women are smarter.

[Hairless Kitten II]

Tahar Joblis,

Maybe that ‘myth’ is alive due other studies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... study.html

I have to admit that I found equal studies that talk different: some say, that men and women use the same amount of words in a day, others even suggest that men are the biggest talkers. It’s worth to have a closer look at it.

That the fastest typist you know is a male and the throwing ball one is a female, can be considered as anecdotal personal evidence. Most factories, worldwide, will use women in their plants when they have to work with small objects.

Ball handling or any other motor movement is partly dependent about the size and structure of the muscles, but it starts in the brain.

If it was only a matter of muscles then all people with the size and posture of Ronaldhino could mimic the ball control of that football player right after a demonstration. It’s not working like that. You have to train your brain (and muscles) rather a long time to control the ball well. Muscle control is determined by your motoric system, which is part of your brain.
While a Ronaldhino can learn new football tricks and moves in a few hours or days, we need weeks, months and for some even years. Most of us will never achieve his level, doesn’t matter how much we train. You can call that talent and this is certainly not due the muscle structure but cognitive reasons.

If females were better ball throwers as males, then many women would enter the male world of professional ball throwing games, like baseball, cricket and others. I’m sure you could find a rare exception, but most humans in that kind of (professional) sports are male. Same with soccer. I have knowledge of 2 women playing soccer at a professional level in a male team. It was an Italian Seri B or C team, but I forgot the name (Perugia maybe?). If women had better raw motoric skills, more of them would enter professional (male) teams. It’s all about money in that world. Yes, I am aware that in sport, it’s more than only having good motoric skills.

You’re partly right about the colour blind issue. It has indeed nothing to do with smartness, but it’s not only a matter of rod, cones and X chromosomes. Brain setup and brain damage could also be responsible for colour deficits. Anyway, I still recognize it as a mistake, it doesn’t belong in the posting.

‘Men are more adventurous and love to try out new things, women prefer a stable condition.’

The main factor is due biological behaviour. You could setup environments to test this. Laura Beckwith and Margaret Burnett from Oregon State University did this.
In spreadsheet problem-solving tasks, males developed other strategies as females. They played more around to learn the application. Some males even exaggerated with this behaviour.
Males view machines as a challenge, something to be mastered, overcome, and be measured against. They were risk-takers, and they demonstrated this by eagerly trying new techniques and approaches.

Yes, most examples are related with cognitive differences. And what’s cognition? It is the scientific term for "the process of thought." Smartness, is not only related to solving difficult mathematical questions or learning new things. Smartness is more and derived from several cognitive resources.
I’m faced with the cognitive gender differences in my daily work, but this doesn’t mean I know all about the subject. I would even add: ‘I know nothing and still have to learn a lot’

Maybe the OP should have started to determine what he thinks is smartness.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Women allow men to think they run the world. Women are smarter.

That's why Roan marry you.

[Xon Vredl]

Maybe that ‘myth’ is alive due other studies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... study.html

I have to admit that I found equal studies that talk different: some say, that men and women use the same amount of words in a day, others even suggest that men are the biggest talkers. It’s worth to have a closer look at it.

Your use of phrases like "no doubt about it" in your first post doesn't reflect the divided scientific community that has evolved around gender-based cognitive differences. When studies exist that have reached opposite conclusions, you should cite from both sides.

That the fastest typist you know is a male and the throwing ball one is a female, can be considered as anecdotal personal evidence. Most factories, worldwide, will use women in their plants when they have to work with small objects.

Unsubstantiated 'general knowledge' isn't much better than anecdotal personal evidence.

If females were better ball throwers as males, then many women would enter the male world of professional ball throwing games, like baseball, cricket and others. I’m sure you could find a rare exception, but most humans in that kind of (professional) sports are male. Same with soccer. I have knowledge of 2 women playing soccer at a professional level in a male team. It was an Italian Seri B or C team, but I forgot the name (Perugia maybe?). If women had better raw motoric skills, more of them would enter professional (male) teams. It’s all about money in that world. Yes, I am aware that in sport, it’s more than only having good motoric skills.

The world of professional sports is not gender-divided simply because of biological differences. It is gender-divided because the world is patriarchal and masculinity/male is valued higher than femininity/female. For example, in my country there are quite a few female soccer players who are better at soccer than quite a few male soccer players. But men and women play on different teams, in different leagues so those teams never play eachother. Men's soccer is far more popular and attracts almost all of the sponsors. As you said, "it's all about money in that world".

The main factor is due biological behaviour. You could setup environments to test this. Laura Beckwith and Margaret Burnett from Oregon State University did this.
In spreadsheet problem-solving tasks, males developed other strategies as females. They played more around to learn the application. Some males even exaggerated with this behaviour.
Males view machines as a challenge, something to be mastered, overcome, and be measured against. They were risk-takers, and they demonstrated this by eagerly trying new techniques and approaches.

Sorry, but I fail to see how this shows that the main factor is due biological behaviour.

[Chezslavocia]

men have a highter brain capaciaty, but women have a highter I.Q. i cant tell you which is smarter.

[Smunkeeville]

The world of professional sports is not gender-divided simply because of biological differences. It is gender-divided because the world is patriarchal and masculinity/male is valued higher than femininity/female. For example, in my country there are quite a few female soccer players who are better at soccer than quite a few male soccer players. But men and women play on different teams, in different leagues so those teams never play eachother. Men's soccer is far more popular and attracts almost all of the sponsors. As you said, "it's all about money in that world".

Indeed.

Even when girls want to play they are denied. In the 70's there was a huge row over whether or not girls could/should be allowed to play little league baseball. The president had signed title IX and a girl wanted to play. After a very long court battle during which the defense (the side that didn't want to allow girls to compete) said things like "girls are too weak for baseball" and "if a girl is good she will show up a boy and he will feel emasculated", it was decided that girls must be allowed to try out.......so you know what the Little League organization did? They made a softball league, and steered the girls there. The message being "you can't play baseball, because it's a boy's game". Even today when girls are legally allowed to play in little league baseball they are pressured, bullied and often outright forced to join softball.

You want to know why girls "can't" throw a baseball as well as boys? They aren't taught to. They're taught to throw softballs and the entire throwing motion is different, so when they're given a baseball they tend to "throw like girls", meaning they throw it like they would a softball, and we all know that softball is "what girls play" because baseball is "for men".

http://www.momsteam.com/sports/baseball ... page=0%2C0

The claim that men are better at sports because it is evidenced in that more men are represented in professional sports is asinine and ignores the history of sexist discrimination, that btw, still continues to this day.

[Tiesabre]

Not touchin' this one.

[Bears Armed]

I say
Let us put man and a woman together to find out which one is smarter
Some say men, but I say no, the women got the men beat, they should know

Ah, not me, but the people they say that the man has always led woman astray
But I say, please listen when I say "Smarter than the man in every way"
That's right, the woman is (smarter!)
That's right, the woman is (smarter!)
That's right, the woman is (smarter!), that's right, that's right

Ever since the world began, woman was always fooling man
And, if you listen to my bit attentively, I going tell ya how she smarter than me

Ah, not me, but the people they say that the man has always led woman astray
But I say, please listen when I say "Smarter than the man in every way"

In the Garden of Eden Adam built a home, when he settle down Eve start to roam
Many a night he spent in pain <stops and laughs> whenever Eve was Abel, she was
raisin' Cain

Ah, not me, but the people they say that the man has always led woman astray
But I say, please listen when I say "Smarter than the man in every way"
That's right, the woman is (smarter!)
That's right, the woman is (smarter!)
That's right, the woman is (smarter!), that's right that's right

Ya meet a girl at a pretty dance thinking that you would stand a chance
Take her home thinkin' she's alone <stops and laughs> open the door, ya find her
husband home

Ah, not me, but the people they say that the man has always led woman astray
But I say, please listen when I say "Smarter than the man in every way"

I was treatin' a girl independently, she was makin' baby for me
When the baby born and I went to see <stops and laughs> the eyes of blue it was not
by me

Ah, not me, but the people they say that the man has always led woman astray
But I say, please listen when I say "Smarter than the man in every way"
That's right, the woman is (smarter!)
That's right, the woman is (smarter!)
That's right, the woman is (smarter!), that's right, that's right

Garden Of Eden was very nice, Adam never work in Paradise
Eve meets Nick, Paradise gone <stops and laughs> she make Adam work from that day
on

Ah, not me, but the people they say that the man has always led woman astray
But I say, please listen when I say "Smarter than the man in every way"

Methuselah spent all his life in fears, did without woman for 900 years
One day he decided to have some fun <stops and laughs> the poor man never lived to
see nine hundred and one

Ah, not me, but the people they say that the man has always led woman astray
But I say, please listen when I say "Smarter than the man in every way."

[Mathematica Numerica]

Hm... Still not enough data to get that. Still my IQ (sd16), is 196, and I am 16 years of age, with a MBTI type of INTP, and I am a near world record mental super-speed calculator. And wearing genitals on the inside is a required trait, thus, not a sign of higher intelligence.

[Hiddenrun]

Men and women have their own strengths and weaknesses, but the propensity for some females to buy into socialized modes of over-emotional problem solving is definitely detrimental. It would be nice if women stopped blaming their uterus for making bad choices.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

Men and women have their own strengths and weaknesses, but the propensity for some females to buy into socialized modes of over-emotional problem solving is definitely detrimental. It would be nice if women stopped blaming their uterus for making bad choices.

???

[North Suran]

Men and women have their own strengths and weaknesses, but the propensity for some females to buy into socialized modes of over-emotional problem solving is definitely detrimental. It would be nice if women stopped blaming their uterus for making bad choices.

???

Just...

Just don't ask.

[Hiddenrun]

Just...

Just don't ask.

You act like you've never met a woman who blamed a ridiculous outburst on PMS.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

Just...

Just don't ask.

You act like you've never met a woman who blamed a ridiculous outburst on PMS.

this happens to you alot does it?

[Hiddenrun]

Just...

Just don't ask.

You act like you've never met a woman who blamed a ridiculous outburst on PMS.

this happens to you alot does it?

I've been married a few times, and I have daughters.

So yes. I've become fairly immune though. Woe be to the man who isn't prepared for the irrationality of a woman blaming PMS for her weird behavior.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

I've been married a few times, and I have daughters.

So yes. I've become fairly immune though. Woe be to the man who isn't prepared for the irrationality of a woman blaming PMS for her weird behavior.

I've come across guys who also have weird behaviour too. people have all sorts of strange exuses for acting out of character, at least until you find out what's really bothering them.
I'll give you an example, typically if a woman has emotional problems and goes to see their GP they'l tell them, if a guy has emotional problems he'l go to the GP and complain of a physical issue. Broadly speaking this is common behaviour.

[Hiddenrun]

I've come across guys who also have weird behaviour too. people have all sorts of strange exuses for acting out of character, at least until you find out what's really bothering them.
I'll give you an example, typically if a woman has emotional problems and goes to see their GP they'l tell them, if a guy has emotional problems he'l go to the GP and complain of a physical issue. Broadly speaking this is common behaviour.

Yes, but the problem is, it's socially acceptable for women to blame their reproductive system for irrational behavior. It makes them less likely to examine the real issue. If a man hides his issues behind some bogus physical complaint, he's at least aware that it's bogus. I think some of these women actually believe their ovaries are to blame, and that it excuses them.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

Yes, but the problem is, it's socially acceptable for women to blame their reproductive system for irrational behavior. It makes them less likely to examine the real issue. If a man hides his issues behind some bogus physical complaint, he's at least aware that it's bogus. I think some of these women actually believe their ovaries are to blame, and that it excuses them.

not necessarily, sometimes guys mix up physical complaints with the real emotional ones, displacing the issue as it were into the physical problem thus exusing them from having to take responsibility for emotional health. This isn't always a bad thing, perhaps in a hostile setting it's advantageous to not show emotions, but in a civilian setting this is a negative trait.
With women who do blame their behaviour on PMS (personally i've never actually heard them say this but suspected it), it's possible the same kind of thing is going on.

[Erastide]

I've come across guys who also have weird behaviour too. people have all sorts of strange exuses for acting out of character, at least until you find out what's really bothering them.
I'll give you an example, typically if a woman has emotional problems and goes to see their GP they'l tell them, if a guy has emotional problems he'l go to the GP and complain of a physical issue. Broadly speaking this is common behaviour.

Yes, but the problem is, it's socially acceptable for women to blame their reproductive system for irrational behavior. It makes them less likely to examine the real issue. If a man hides his issues behind some bogus physical complaint, he's at least aware that it's bogus. I think some of these women actually believe their ovaries are to blame, and that it excuses them.

I think you have an over exaggerated sense of how socially acceptable it is for women to blame their behavior on biologically caused mood swings. I do trust you're not actually disputing that such a thing is real. Of course it is possible that PMS gets blamed more than it should and at times when it would be physically impossible for that to be the cause. One type of mood swing is not easily differentiated from another.

[DaWoad]

So yes. I've become fairly immune though. Woe be to the man who isn't prepared for the irrationality of a woman blaming PMS for her weird behavior.

dear god . . . hormones don't actually exist! The medical boards MUST be informed of this miraculous discovery!

[Melkor Unchained]

So how come the majority of traffic collisions are caused by men?

You don't have to cause accidents to be a shitty driver. People who take 10 seconds to move after the light changes, or people who come to a complete stop to make a turn in the middle of traffic, and/or drive 15 mph under the speed limit on one lane roads may not cause accidents very often, but they are certainly shitty and/or inconsiderate drivers. I can predict the gender of a driver based on their behavior well over half the time; although it gets a little muddy when you get into the "old people" or "people on cell phones" categories.

My brother (and yes, I am aware of the irony of using a male to prove my point) has never been in an accident, but being in the passenger seat with him behind the wheel is usually a fairly horrifying experience, and not just because he has no muffler.

Now if you said "that's why women are worse at parking", then that would be understandable.

Parking is part of driving and is included in my OMG SEXIST remarks about women drivers

Actually men can be quite capable of gaining social acumen, but overall perhaps women do have more opportunities to hone their social skills. If only because of the gender stereotypes in hollywood/books/magazines.

I'm not sure where we're disagreeing here; but I would guess for every male "smooth operator" out there, there's probably 50 women that can wrap the average man around their finger. There is more demand for good looking women than there is for good looking men, and I'm walking, talking proof of this. I'm not a bad looking guy, but I somehow managed to be the only one not to get laid at all the parties I threw at my house in High School; my luck hasn't improved any since those days either.

I saw a preview for some movie (I forget the title) that starred Katherine Heigl as a woman with an apparent inability to date. What? Are these guys kidding? The woman could be a serial axe murderer, but men would queue up anyway. I looked at my mother (!) and we shared an incredulous glance. "How could she possibly have trouble with men?!"

So yes, they 'have more opportunities,' I suppose, but only because they're more likely to fend off would be suitors, rather than sleep with all of them (which is what a straight man in the same situation would be far more likely to do).

men do anything to get sex? really? and women are completely innocent in this regard are they? i have serious doubts about this one.

The first part is correct, the second is putting words in my mouth. I'm sure some (many?) women will go to similar lengths, but they just don't (by and large) have the same drive that we do. I know some women occasionally try to make the case that they do, but I don't buy it. It may be true in individual cases, but not for the gender as a whole. I was in the mall the other day and I saw a female store attendant taking the panties off a female mannequin and it was like the hottest thing I've ever seen. I somehow doubt that the male-equivalent imagery would have the same effect on the (Average!) woman's mind.

Let me put it this way: if a married couple disagrees on some manner of domestic issue, it's not uncommon for the wife to refuse sex until the husband relents. Why? Because they know we want it more than they do. It's a minor sacrifice that results in major leverage, and I'm pretty sure it's an effective tactic.

I, of course, will be impervious to such tactics if/when I ever get married, since I've already gone 4.5 goddamn years without getting laid.

nope manipulation can happen to just about anyone, whether they have great social skills or not. that's more observation skills.

See above. "Manipulation" can happen to just about anyone in a general sense, yes, but manipulation in a sexual context (which is what I was talking about) is more likely to happen to the male by the female, unless roofies or physical force is involved.

Ladies: ever gone on a date just because you were hungry?

This one about smartest men over smartest women, what? maths and science have gender divides i'm sure if stereotypes were reduced women/men could equal each other in the area they study.

It's a personal observation, just based on what I've seen and experienced over the course of my lifetime. Whether it's true or not, I don't really know. I'm not sure what you mean with the stereotypes or whatever, but if stereotypes are having any effect on academic studies, I would guess they're being carried out very poorly.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

"Melkor Unchained"]
You don't have to cause accidents to be a shitty driver. People who take 10 seconds to move after the light changes, or people who come to a complete stop to make a turn in the middle of traffic, and/or drive 15 mph under the speed limit on one lane roads may not cause accidents very often, but they are certainly shitty and/or inconsiderate drivers. I can predict the gender of a driver based on their behavior well over half the time; although it gets a little muddy when you get into the "old people" or "people on cell phones" categories.

My brother (and yes, I am aware of the irony of using a male to prove my point) has never been in an accident, but being in the passenger seat with him behind the wheel is usually a fairly horrifying experience, and not just because he has no muffler.

(me)
yeah, I suppose you have a point there. I got involved in a crash once (I say crash but that’s a bit of an exaggeration), some ass in a white car cut in front of me, by the way I was in a driving lesson at the time, so I braked, then the guy in a white van going 50mph hit into the back of my vehicle, which would be going at about 0-10mph. Bump, no serious injuries though, a bit shaken.
I had an old friend who used to think he was a good driver, I managed to convince him otherwise when he took a roundabout at 40mph going into the wrong lane headlong into a bus (he avoided it), pretty scary guy, case of road rage there.

Parking is part of driving and is included in my OMG SEXIST remarks about women drivers


I'm not sure where we're disagreeing here; but I would guess for every male "smooth operator" out there, there's probably 50 women that can wrap the average man around their finger. There is more demand for good looking women than there is for good looking men, and I'm walking, talking proof of this. I'm not a bad looking guy, but I somehow managed to be the only one not to get laid at all the parties I threw at my house in High School; my luck hasn't improved any since those days either.

I saw a preview for some movie (I forget the title) that starred Katherine Heigl as a woman with an apparent inability to date. What? Are these guys kidding? The woman could be a serial axe murderer, but men would queue up anyway. I looked at my mother (!) and we shared an incredulous glance. "How could she possibly have trouble with men?!"

So yes, they 'have more opportunities,' I suppose, but only because they're more likely to fend off would be suitors, rather than sleep with all of them (which is what a straight man in the same situation would be far more likely to do).

As much as I would like to disagree with you there about expanding gender stereotypes, my experience of women is screaming at me to shut the hell up. Mmmm well most men can still give women the run around if they know what they’re doing, but yeah I accept your point here.

The first part is correct, the second is putting words in my mouth. I'm sure some (many?) women will go to similar lengths, but they just don't (by and large) have the same drive that we do. I know some women occasionally try to make the case that they do, but I don't buy it. It may be true in individual cases, but not for the gender as a whole. I was in the mall the other day and I saw a female store attendant taking the panties off a female mannequin and it was like the hottest thing I've ever seen. I somehow doubt that the male-equivalent imagery would have the same effect on the (Average!) woman's mind.

Let me put it this way: if a married couple disagrees on some manner of domestic issue, it's not uncommon for the wife to refuse sex until the husband relents. Why? Because they know we want it more than they do. It's a minor sacrifice that results in major leverage, and I'm pretty sure it's an effective tactic.

I, of course, will be impervious to such tactics if/when I ever get married, since I've already gone 4.5 goddamn years without getting laid.

Nah that’s men doing the hoovering that gets them going. .
Well it’s only leverage if you’re refused access to the porn machine that is the internet.

See above. "Manipulation" can happen to just about anyone in a general sense, yes, but manipulation in a sexual context (which is what I was talking about) is more likely to happen to the male by the female, unless roofies or physical force is involved.

Ladies: ever gone on a date just because you were hungry?

Oh sexual manipulation, dunno about that I suppose there is a strong undercurrent for use or withholding of sex to force the other person to concede whatever it is you’re disagreeing about.
Your last comment is evil in the extreme.
angry face

It's a personal observation, just based on what I've seen and experienced over the course of my lifetime. Whether it's true or not, I don't really know. I'm not sure what you mean with the stereotypes or whatever, but if stereotypes are having any effect on academic studies, I would guess they're being carried out very poorly.

Well you ain’t seen everything, but I can see where you’re coming from.
of course you could threaten going gay, then pretending to have gay sex, but that might require some...ahem imagination or money at some point.

[United Russian State]

Who said woman are smart?

[DrunkenDove]

Who said woman are smart?

Women scientists. And they should know, they're geniuses.

*nods*