Prayer

[Kreigan]

The early church was warned about the man of lawlessness whose number was 666 that some believed was Nero since the bible also said the man of lawlessness killed his mother, such as Nero did. The bible warned about this, and 60-100 million people died, many of whom were Christians that did believe that Nero was the man of lawlessness. There were warnings, but millions still died. God didn't like it, but many accepted their deaths as recorded in Foxes book of Martyes and Josephious.

I believe common consent amongst biblical scholars now is that the number is actually 616. And seriously, you're claiming that Nero killed 60-100 million people? Just for the record, that's more than the two World Wars combined.

The least he could do is pop down? What is the Holy Ghost for?? Have you not strived for the gift of knowledge so you will know that which effects the kingdom of God? He will not give that which you do not seek.

So basically God won't warn us when there's a genocidal maniac about to kill millions of his beloved creatures because 'he won't give us that which we do not seek'? This is like a mother refusing to warn her child that jumping into a fire is dangerous because she 'won't give the kid that which he does not seek'. You do claim that he warned Joseph about Herod, so it's fine to warn a man about danger to a single baby, but wrong to warn people about danger to entire races or millions of peoples?

^this, religon is flawed in so many ways and yet people choose to beleive it.

[Alexlantis]

I pray every now and again. It helps calm my mind, lets me find hope. That, and you at least beg God has mercy on you when final exams come around, because those are pretty hellish.

[CanuckHeaven]

How can I possibly speak for other people? I can only relate my personal experiences. As far as you praying for your father and nothing happened could depend on a variety of reasons, especially if he was doing something that was criminal.

What I want to ask is why your prayers are "answered", and yet others are not.

I guess that would depend upon the faith of those who are praying and what they are praying for. As I stated earlier, I can only relate what works for me.

[Hobit]

Yeah, I have. Voluntarily? Once or twice when I was below ten. Anytime since, unless during dinner prayer, never. What god is there to pray to?

[Kreigan]

What I want to ask is why your prayers are "answered", and yet others are not.

I guess that would depend upon the faith of those who are praying and what they are praying for. As I stated earlier, I can only relate what works for me.

So if a prayer warrior prays for someone to be cured and that person dies anyway, but someone else with the same disease survives it without prayer, what then?

[Green Street Elite22]

The early church was warned about the man of lawlessness whose number was 666 that some believed was Nero since the bible also said the man of lawlessness killed his mother, such as Nero did. The bible warned about this, and 60-100 million people died, many of whom were Christians that did believe that Nero was the man of lawlessness. There were warnings, but millions still died. God didn't like it, but many accepted their deaths as recorded in Foxes book of Martyes and Josephious.

The least he could do is pop down? What is the Holy Ghost for?? Have you not strived for the gift of knowledge so you will know that which effects the kingdom of God? He will not give that which you do not seek.

Yea and in Maco Texas during the 80's some nutjob went to israel, to the supposed holy land of which when he came back he thought he was the lamb of god and used it to have sex with members of his cult and he also had them get weapons since jesus says to sell everything you own and get a weapon. They then had a shoot out with ATF and 4 agents were killed and the man blew up the building killing all 76 of the people...and he truly beleived god told him to do that and even said god talked with him about him being the prophet when the apocalypse would break out, he said god told him all of this while he was in israel. And many others have done the same claiming god told them to so dont give me that holy ghost nonsense.

This is because they did not understand the context of the bible that they studied. Yea its sad and horrible this has happened. But again are you blaming God? It clearly states in the bible there are many antichrists, and many that would say things such as "I am the Christ" or the Son of God has returned to the the desert. Most of this is found in Matthew 24. I believe what was written long ago is still affective today since History repeats itself.

It's also recorded in history that a group of people were told that Jesus has returned to the desert and they went there, and they were all beheaded by Roman soldiers camped out. But if you don't know how to hear God's voice or have an understanding of the Bible then yea there are some crazies out there, I'll give ya that, but again, God does warn people about this in the Bible, but so what would you have done? Is the Bible not sufficient? Would it really be better for God to appear again? According to the Bible the Word was seen, but many doubted so what are you going to do?

[Alexlantis]

Yeah, I have. Voluntarily? Once or twice when I was below ten. Anytime since, unless during dinner prayer, never. What god is there to pray to?

Well, never hurts to pray before final exams. Because, honestly, sometimes cramming does no good and you're left with either blind luck or God smiling upon you for once.

[Hobit]

Yeah, I have. Voluntarily? Once or twice when I was below ten. Anytime since, unless during dinner prayer, never. What god is there to pray to?

Well, never hurts to pray before final exams. Because, honestly, sometimes cramming does no good and you're left with either blind luck or God smiling upon you for once.

I say it was luck, never a god.

[Alexlantis]

Well, never hurts to pray before final exams. Because, honestly, sometimes cramming does no good and you're left with either blind luck or God smiling upon you for once.

I say it was luck, never a god.

Eh, well, it doesn't hurt. At the very least you get a placebo effect.

[Kreigan]

Yea and in Maco Texas during the 80's some nutjob went to israel, to the supposed holy land of which when he came back he thought he was the lamb of god and used it to have sex with members of his cult and he also had them get weapons since jesus says to sell everything you own and get a weapon. They then had a shoot out with ATF and 4 agents were killed and the man blew up the building killing all 76 of the people...and he truly beleived god told him to do that and even said god talked with him about him being the prophet when the apocalypse would break out, he said god told him all of this while he was in israel. And many others have done the same claiming god told them to so dont give me that holy ghost nonsense.

This is because they did not understand the context of the bible that they studied. Yea its sad and horrible this has happened. But again are you blaming God? It clearly states in the bible there are many antichrists, and many that would say things such as "I am the Christ" or the Son of God has returned to the the desert. Most of this is found in Matthew 24. I believe what was written long ago is still affective today since History repeats itself.

It's also recorded in history that a group of people were told that Jesus has returned to the desert and they went there, and they were all beheaded by Roman soldiers camped out. But if you don't know how to hear God's voice or have an understanding of the Bible then yea there are some crazies out there, I'll give ya that, but again, God does warn people about this in the Bible, but so what would you have done? Is the Bible not sufficient? Would it really be better for God to appear again? According to the Bible the Word was seen, but many doubted so what are you going to do?

Well first of all the bible is a collection of storys and poems and teachings put together by men, it was not illustrated or written by god himself. Also there is no proof that jesus ever existed. Also yea and I can say there will be a horrible murder scenario in the future and Im sure it will happen somewhere in the future, does that make me god? or a prophet? Also why did god, the all knowing being as he is creat evil or allow evil to exist if he had this supposed perfect plan for us on earth? Why would he put us on the same planet as satan was casted down to if he knew it would cause sin to be released? Also why does the greek story of Pandora a woman causing evil to be released just like eve in the biblical story who caused evil to released? Why are women the causes of evil...isnt it a coincidence that women happend to be thought of as lesser people in that time as well...hmmm imagine that. Also how come the greeks have a story have 9days and 9nights of rain which zeus the main god caused? Your christianity takes things from pagan beleifs.

[Green Street Elite22]

I believe common consent amongst biblical scholars now is that the number is actually 616. And seriously, you're claiming that Nero killed 60-100 million people? Just for the record, that's more than the two World Wars combined.

My apologies that is just a misprint. It wasn't Nero alone, but the tribulation period that occurred one after the other 10 men starting with Nero. These ten men killed off somewhere between 60-100 million people.


So basically God won't warn us when there's a genocidal maniac about to kill millions of his beloved creatures because 'he won't give us that which we do not seek'? This is like a mother refusing to warn her child that jumping into a fire is dangerous because she 'won't give the kid that which he does not seek'. You do claim that he warned Joseph about Herod, so it's fine to warn a man about danger to a single baby, but wrong to warn people about danger to entire races or millions of peoples?

^this, religon is flawed in so many ways and yet people choose to beleive it.

So simply trying to love somebody is flawed? Sure there those that claim to be Christians, but don't seem to strive for it. But at least the greater majority of us aren't trying to kill anybody.

But would you even listen to a warning? I'll warn you that God may say to you on your day of judgment, "Leave me, I never knew you?" And do you even understand that Christianity is still the most persecuted religion on the planet. So are you concerned about us? In China, 60-100 million risk their lives and liberty to worship in underground house churches [Focus on the Family].

Martyrdom at Soviet hands:
1921-50: 15M Christians in prison camps
1950-80: 5M Christians in prison camps
Orthodox: 14.5M k. by Stalin, 2.7M of them martyrs (1929-37)
Roman Catholics (1925): 1.2M martyrs
By Mongols
1214: Genghiz Khan massacres 6M Christians: 4M martyrs
1214: Diocese of Herat sacked by Genghiz Khan: 1M
1258: massacre in Baghdad by Hulaku Khan: 1.1M
1358: Tamerlane destroys 15-million-strong Nestorians: 4M martyrs

Just a small list, but Christians are acceptive of their deaths.

[CanuckHeaven]

I guess that would depend upon the faith of those who are praying and what they are praying for. As I stated earlier, I can only relate what works for me.

So if a prayer warrior prays for someone to be cured and that person dies anyway, but someone else with the same disease survives it without prayer, what then?

You are asking for speculation on my part based on specifics that may be unknown. The conclusion of my prayers is that Thy will not mine be done.

[Ceannairceach]

^this, religon is flawed in so many ways and yet people choose to beleive it.

So simply trying to love somebody is flawed? Sure there those that claim to be Christians, but don't seem to strive for it. But at least the greater majority of us aren't trying to kill anybody.

But would you even listen to a warning? I'll warn you that God may say to you on your day of judgment, "Leave me, I never knew you?" And do you even understand that Christianity is still the most persecuted religion on the planet. So are you concerned about us? In China, 60-100 million risk their lives and liberty to worship in underground house churches [Focus on the Family].

Martyrdom at Soviet hands:
1921-50: 15M Christians in prison camps
1950-80: 5M Christians in prison camps
Orthodox: 14.5M k. by Stalin, 2.7M of them martyrs (1929-37)
Roman Catholics (1925): 1.2M martyrs
By Mongols
1214: Genghiz Khan massacres 6M Christians: 4M martyrs
1214: Diocese of Herat sacked by Genghiz Khan: 1M
1258: massacre in Baghdad by Hulaku Khan: 1.1M
1358: Tamerlane destroys 15-million-strong Nestorians: 4M martyrs

Just a small list, but Christians are acceptive of their deaths.

Most persecuted religion? May I get a source on that?

Considering Stalin killed a lot of people, not only Christians, don't throw numbers around that can be combated with a simple fact; Stalin killed millions, Christians are no exception. He killed Jews, Muslims, those who did not agree with him... Christians aren't special in this regard. They weren't anymore martyrs than the Jews and fascists that died along side them.

And tell me, when Genghis was threatening to burn down entire cities if they did not submit, why is it you only list Christian deaths? Where can you source that he specifically targeted Christians? Like Stalin, he killed a lot of people. Christians, like in the USSR, are not special in this regard.

[Green Street Elite22]

This is because they did not understand the context of the bible that they studied. Yea its sad and horrible this has happened. But again are you blaming God? It clearly states in the bible there are many antichrists, and many that would say things such as "I am the Christ" or the Son of God has returned to the the desert. Most of this is found in Matthew 24. I believe what was written long ago is still affective today since History repeats itself.

It's also recorded in history that a group of people were told that Jesus has returned to the desert and they went there, and they were all beheaded by Roman soldiers camped out. But if you don't know how to hear God's voice or have an understanding of the Bible then yea there are some crazies out there, I'll give ya that, but again, God does warn people about this in the Bible, but so what would you have done? Is the Bible not sufficient? Would it really be better for God to appear again? According to the Bible the Word was seen, but many doubted so what are you going to do?

Well first of all the bible is a collection of storys and poems and teachings put together by men, it was not illustrated or written by god himself. Also there is no proof that jesus ever existed. Also yea and I can say there will be a horrible murder scenario in the future and Im sure it will happen somewhere in the future, does that make me god? or a prophet? Also why did god, the all knowing being as he is creat evil or allow evil to exist if he had this supposed perfect plan for us on earth? Why would he put us on the same planet as satan was casted down to if he knew it would cause sin to be released? Also why does the greek story of Pandora a woman causing evil to be released just like eve in the biblical story who caused evil to released? Why are women the causes of evil...isnt it a coincidence that women happend to be thought of as lesser people in that time as well...hmmm imagine that. Also how come the greeks have a story have 9days and 9nights of rain which zeus the main god caused? Your christianity takes things from pagan beleifs.

How do you not know pagans didn't steel from the bible? The devil walked to and fro from the earth, and was the prince of this world. The bible was written by men inspired by God. The serpent said to eve, but you will be like gods. Is it not possible that the great deceiver deceived other nations into make Eve into a false goddess?

Theirs no evidence of Jesus, Have you not read of Flavius Josephus on the account when Rome sacked Jerusalem. This is a history book with recordings of angels being seen in the sky, and fulfilled what Jesus said in Matthew 24.
Is the four gospels not sufficient or the early church fathers such as Polycarp who followed John the apostle. Are these accounts not holdable?

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Have you ever prayed?
Yes


If so, what benefits did it bring?
None, really. It just made it feel better.


Who did you pray to?
God. The Hindu one, which more or less means I prayed to the supreme force that controls the universe.

How did you pray?
By sitting down, meditating and mentally begging God.

How many prayer experiences have you had?
Quite a few.

[The Floridian Coast]

The only times I've ever prayed in my adult life were for the benefit of others who wanted to hear it. Despite believing less in a god than I do in Hogwarts, I don't mind praying if it'll make someone feel better, like when I prayed with my injured grandma. It's a nice thing to do, I get nothing out of it though.

[CanuckHeaven]

This is because they did not understand the context of the bible that they studied. Yea its sad and horrible this has happened. But again are you blaming God? It clearly states in the bible there are many antichrists, and many that would say things such as "I am the Christ" or the Son of God has returned to the the desert. Most of this is found in Matthew 24. I believe what was written long ago is still affective today since History repeats itself.

It's also recorded in history that a group of people were told that Jesus has returned to the desert and they went there, and they were all beheaded by Roman soldiers camped out. But if you don't know how to hear God's voice or have an understanding of the Bible then yea there are some crazies out there, I'll give ya that, but again, God does warn people about this in the Bible, but so what would you have done? Is the Bible not sufficient? Would it really be better for God to appear again? According to the Bible the Word was seen, but many doubted so what are you going to do?

Well first of all the bible is a collection of storys and poems and teachings put together by men, it was not illustrated or written by god himself. Also there is no proof that jesus ever existed. Also yea and I can say there will be a horrible murder scenario in the future and Im sure it will happen somewhere in the future, does that make me god? or a prophet? Also why did god, the all knowing being as he is creat evil or allow evil to exist if he had this supposed perfect plan for us on earth? Why would he put us on the same planet as satan was casted down to if he knew it would cause sin to be released? Also why does the greek story of Pandora a woman causing evil to be released just like eve in the biblical story who caused evil to released? Why are women the causes of evil...isnt it a coincidence that women happend to be thought of as lesser people in that time as well...hmmm imagine that. Also how come the greeks have a story have 9days and 9nights of rain which zeus the main god caused? Your christianity takes things from pagan beleifs.

You seemed to have strayed way off topic. I will remind you of the questions in the OP:

"Have you ever prayed? If so, what benefits did it bring? Who did you pray to? How did you pray? How many prayer experiences have you had?"

It is not a question of whether the Bible is valid or not or whether there is a God or not....there are other threads for that.

[Rokartian States]

Well first of all the bible is a collection of storys and poems and teachings put together by men, it was not illustrated or written by god himself. Also there is no proof that jesus ever existed. Also yea and I can say there will be a horrible murder scenario in the future and Im sure it will happen somewhere in the future, does that make me god? or a prophet? Also why did god, the all knowing being as he is creat evil or allow evil to exist if he had this supposed perfect plan for us on earth? Why would he put us on the same planet as satan was casted down to if he knew it would cause sin to be released? Also why does the greek story of Pandora a woman causing evil to be released just like eve in the biblical story who caused evil to released? Why are women the causes of evil...isnt it a coincidence that women happend to be thought of as lesser people in that time as well...hmmm imagine that. Also how come the greeks have a story have 9days and 9nights of rain which zeus the main god caused? Your christianity takes things from pagan beleifs.

How do you not know pagans didn't steel from the bible?

Greco-Roman paganism existed longer than Christianity.

Edit: Need to get on topic. D:

Outside of dinner prayers with my friends' family, I can't recall ever having prayed before.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

How do you not know pagans didn't steel from the bible?

Greco-Roman paganism existed longer than Christianity.

And Hinduism is the oldest religion still practiced...

[Ceannairceach]

Greco-Roman paganism existed longer than Christianity.

And Hinduism is the oldest religion still practiced...

Animism is still practiced, I believe...

[Southern United Africa]

Say "pray" over and over in quick succession. I dare you.

[Arranfirangia]

Have you ever prayed? Yes
If so, what benefits did it bring? Peace for a few minutes and then s sense of betrayal and loneliness
Who did you pray to? When I was young I prayed to the Jewish G-d and the Buddha, later I started my prayers with a few sentences asking about the existence, name, and powers of the one I prayed to.
How did you pray? I have recently prayed only in bed right before sleeping, by folding my hands, closing my eyes, and sometimes using an onenju, or buddhist prayer bead bracelet.
How many prayer experiences have you had? None I can recall. Once I was without friends and desperately prayed to "whoever is almighty" and asked to receive a sign of friendship, within a dream or real life, and ended up getting nothing.

[Kreigan]

Well first of all the bible is a collection of storys and poems and teachings put together by men, it was not illustrated or written by god himself. Also there is no proof that jesus ever existed. Also yea and I can say there will be a horrible murder scenario in the future and Im sure it will happen somewhere in the future, does that make me god? or a prophet? Also why did god, the all knowing being as he is creat evil or allow evil to exist if he had this supposed perfect plan for us on earth? Why would he put us on the same planet as satan was casted down to if he knew it would cause sin to be released? Also why does the greek story of Pandora a woman causing evil to be released just like eve in the biblical story who caused evil to released? Why are women the causes of evil...isnt it a coincidence that women happend to be thought of as lesser people in that time as well...hmmm imagine that. Also how come the greeks have a story have 9days and 9nights of rain which zeus the main god caused? Your christianity takes things from pagan beleifs.

How do you not know pagans didn't steel from the bible? The devil walked to and fro from the earth, and was the prince of this world. The bible was written by men inspired by God. The serpent said to eve, but you will be like gods. Is it not possible that the great deceiver deceived other nations into make Eve into a false goddess?

Theirs no evidence of Jesus, Have you not read of Flavius Josephus on the account when Rome sacked Jerusalem. This is a history book with recordings of angels being seen in the sky, and fulfilled what Jesus said in Matthew 24.
Is the four gospels not sufficient or the early church fathers such as Polycarp who followed John the apostle. Are these accounts not holdable?

Let me rephrase that, theres no evidence for jesus outside of the bible. Also because pagans came before the bible and abrahamic faiths. Also no because luficer didnt exist before the bible, you had Loki, Hades and many other gods for the underworlds of the pagan beleifs. Also why werent men punished as well in the garden of eden? I mean women got painful childbirth and men got nothing? Also why do other female animals experience painful childbirth as well when they did nothing? You know why? Because the bible favors men, since it was written by man. Just like every other religon favors that people or race. If women back then wrote their own religon then they would have god as a woman. Also how do you know god isnt a woman?

[Rokartian States]

Say "pray" over and over in quick succession. I dare you.

Siggin' the crap out of this.

[Green Street Elite22]

How do you not know pagans didn't steel from the bible? The devil walked to and fro from the earth, and was the prince of this world. The bible was written by men inspired by God. The serpent said to eve, but you will be like gods. Is it not possible that the great deceiver deceived other nations into make Eve into a false goddess?

Theirs no evidence of Jesus, Have you not read of Flavius Josephus on the account when Rome sacked Jerusalem. This is a history book with recordings of angels being seen in the sky, and fulfilled what Jesus said in Matthew 24.
Is the four gospels not sufficient or the early church fathers such as Polycarp who followed John the apostle. Are these accounts not holdable?

Let me rephrase that, theres no evidence for jesus outside of the bible. Also because pagans came before the bible and abrahamic faiths. Also no because luficer didnt exist before the bible, you had Loki, Hades and many other gods for the underworlds of the pagan beleifs. Also why werent men punished as well in the garden of eden? I mean women got painful childbirth and men got nothing? Also why do other female animals experience painful childbirth as well when they did nothing? You know why? Because the bible favors men, since it was written by man. Just like every other religon favors that people or race. If women back then wrote their own religon then they would have god as a woman. Also how do you know god isnt a woman?

What about Xerxes the Persain king? The queen of Sheeba visiting Solomon? People during that time (bible time) wouldn't accept these stories as mythology. But they accepted them for the history and the fact that they lived through it. It was a religion and they had that kind of proof as opposed to these pagans which had nothing but idols. The bible would have ended long ago if people didn't know xerxes or sheeba and the bible is an acceptable account towards History. Saying that there needs to be a file on Jesus out side of the bible....

FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS Here's a quote from this History book. Only portions that relate back to the bible.

But to some of the Jews the destruction of Herod's army seemed to be divine vengeance, and certainly a just vengeance, for his treatment of John, surnamed the Baptist. For Herod had put him to death, though he was a good man and had exhorted the Jews to lead righteous lives, to practice justice towards their fellows and piety towards God, and so doing to join in baptism. 3

...convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned. 4

At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive;... 5

-- PLINIUS SECUNDUS (Pliny the Younger)

Pliny was the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. Much of his correspondence has survived including a particular letter written circa AD 112 to the Roman emperor Trajan. This letter does not reference Christ directly, but it does establish several beliefs and practices of early Christians. This includes their loyalty to Christ even when it cost them their lives. Pliny's letter states:

In the meantime, the method I have observed towards those who have been denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were in fact Christians; if they confessed it, I repeated the question twice, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed.

...They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to perform any wicked deed, never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to make it good; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food - but food of an ordinary and innocent kind. 6

-- CORNELIUS TACITUS
he was mention in the bible jesus healed his uncle. This is what he had to say in annuals. He's writting of Nero.

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome... 7

-- GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLAS

Suetonius was a chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian writing around AD 120 in his work Life of Claudius:

Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from the city. 8

-- LUCIAN

Lucian, the Greek satirist, wrote this rather scathing attack in The Death of Peregrine circa AD 170:

The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed upon them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. 9

-- THE TALMUD

The Talmud is essentially the collection of Jewish oral traditions that were put into writing with additional commentary between the years of AD 70 and 200. From the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a includes:

On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out, in front of him, for forty days (saying): 'He is going to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead in his behalf.' But, not having found anything in his favor, they hanged him on the eve of the Passover. 10

The apostles knew, lived, and worked with Christ daily for years. If Christ were a fake, no matter what the apostles might have previously preached or written, it is improbable that even one of them would have died for the sake of a joke or a lie. How rational is it that all of them would endure torture, eleven to the death, without even one wavering from their singular belief that Christ was God, and that he appeared to them after his crucifixion?
Matthew - killed by stabbing as ordered by King Hircanus
James, son of Alphaeous - crucified
James, brother of Jesus - thrown down from a height, stoned and then beaten to death at the hands of Ananias (circa AD 66)
John - tortured by boiling oil, exiled to Patmos in AD 95
Mark - burned during Roman emperor Trajan's reign
Peter - crucified upside-down by the gardens of Nero on the Vatican hill circa AD 64
Andrew - crucified on an "X" shaped cross by Aegeas, governor of the Edessenes, around AD 80
Philip - stoned and crucified in Hierapolis, Phrygia
Simon - crucified in Egypt under Trajan's reign
Thomas - death by spear thrust in Calamina, India
Thaddaeous - killed by arrows
James, son of Zebedee - killed by sword in AD 44 by order of King Herod Agrippa I of Judea
Bartholomew - beaten, flayed alive, crucified upside down, then beheaded 11

The deaths of Jesus' closest followers are speaking to us. Their deaths have become evidence of Christ's deity and ministry on earth. This is evidence of the Bible's believability that no historian, scientist, or skeptic can ignore in clear conscience.