Is god real?

[New Heliopolis]

As with an individual perception there are infinitely many more ways it could be wrong than right, by Bayesian analysis, it's right. Always.

Nonsense. Since there are infinitely many more ways it could be wrong than right, it is essentially a statistical certainty that our perception is wrong.

If we're using statistical probability, which I believe doesn't apply here (as I've said, you're essentially totally ignorant). In fact, from the inordinate amount of reading I've begun, statistical hypothesis testing doesn't really work here, as one would have to figure out the null hypothesis' standards, which there's little way of determining accurately, as again, the conductor of testing or data gatherer has no way of knowing whether a thing that is or isn't perceived is actually there. So to determine the correctness of someone else's perception, one must determine first the correctness of their own.

But anyway, that means the same conclusion can be drawn. Obviously, among the myriad differing perceptions that possibly exist, one could easily be right.

Also, though I'm going to have to look something up briefly, I have some suspicions that Bayesian analysis can be played with rather easily...

Hm. Well, I'll throw it out there, for anyone to solve. By Bayesian probability, what would be the probability of the existence of a specific god that does not go against other understandings of the universe?

[Just Guy]

Show me proof that a (insert the word that is currently considered most PC) exists, or that it doesn't. Until then I'm undecided.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

My belief is that god does not exist. It's illogical and after reading the entire bible was when I went from Catholicism to Atheism.... Now, this argument could be argued either way but there is more proof to evolution than there is to creationism.... I mean am I seriously going to believe that I am a sinner because 3000 years ago a the first woman was convinced to eat a magic fruit off of a magical tree by an evil talking snake.... I personally think that when the bible was written, everybody was on crack. Religion is failing and if you'll notice, the churches are getting really desperate (just look at the Vatican). They're trying everything to stay in power. Thats all the churches ever wanted. Look how they preach to you about not doing a bunch of this crap like stealing and adultery (having sex but not being married), but then the service ends and they go get themselves a hooker. The church is a bunch of hypocrites, and I'm not insulting them out of hate but out of fact. I mean seriously. We're supposed to listen to a group of people that jailed Galileo for claiming the Earth was round and only in 1978 did they admit that he was right. The church is relying on old ties like divine creationism to prove right once again even though the fossils are right there to prove everything.... They say the earth is no more than a million years old.... So you are telling me that carbon dating lies? No, just some of the stuff that the bible says contradicts all logic.... So there was Adam and Eve.... They had kids.... What then. The bible openly speak out against incest even though that is the only way the human race could have grown if thats the way its claimed....

I say GOD IS NOT REAL....

The prosecution rests

Prosecution fails. Miserably. You cannot base whether or not God exists based on writings of the Bible, because that is only one of the myriad definitions people may use to determine what God actually is.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

To be fair, at least Christianity wasn't made up by a science fiction author who once said this:

true but it was started by a drug addict who else thinks of a talking snake

You know the guy who wrote Genisis?

[Galloism]

My belief is that god does not exist. It's illogical and after reading the entire bible was when I went from Catholicism to Atheism.... Now, this argument could be argued either way but there is more proof to evolution than there is to creationism.... I mean am I seriously going to believe that I am a sinner because 3000 years ago a the first woman was convinced to eat a magic fruit off of a magical tree by an evil talking snake.... I personally think that when the bible was written, everybody was on crack. Religion is failing and if you'll notice, the churches are getting really desperate (just look at the Vatican). They're trying everything to stay in power. Thats all the churches ever wanted. Look how they preach to you about not doing a bunch of this crap like stealing and adultery (having sex but not being married), but then the service ends and they go get themselves a hooker. The church is a bunch of hypocrites, and I'm not insulting them out of hate but out of fact. I mean seriously. We're supposed to listen to a group of people that jailed Galileo for claiming the Earth was round and only in 1978 did they admit that he was right. The church is relying on old ties like divine creationism to prove right once again even though the fossils are right there to prove everything.... They say the earth is no more than a million years old.... So you are telling me that carbon dating lies? No, just some of the stuff that the bible says contradicts all logic.... So there was Adam and Eve.... They had kids.... What then. The bible openly speak out against incest even though that is the only way the human race could have grown if thats the way its claimed....

I say GOD IS NOT REAL....

The prosecution rests

Prosecution fails. Miserably. You cannot base whether or not God exists based on writings of the Bible, because that is only one of the myriad definitions people may use to determine what God actually is.

I can tell you one thing about God I know for certain.

He likes ovals.

[Georgism]

true but it was started by a drug addict who else thinks of a talking snake

Dunno, but C. S. Lewis thought of all sorts of talking animals.

[Luciratus]

true but it was started by a drug addict who else thinks of a talking snake

You know the guy who wrote Genisis?

How insightful.

[Lauchlin]

and it's funny when Christians make fun of other religions their like "oh you believe in Scientology that's stupid I'm going to read my bible and then the talking snake said eat the magic fruit and you'll become as smart as the bearded man in the sky who created you out of crap he found lying around"

To be fair, at least Christianity wasn't made up by a science fiction author who once said this:

Y'know, we're all wasting our time writing this hack science fiction! You wanta make real money, you gotta start a religion!

How do you know?

I propose that religious people are so dismissive of Scientology because they feel threatened by the implications for their own religions of the obviously human-constructed nature of Scientology.

[Luciratus]

true but it was started by a drug addict who else thinks of a talking snake

Dunno, but C. S. Lewis thought of all sorts of talking animals.

To some extent, Lewis's characters were still tangible to the real world and largely symbolic. They represented actual people he knew, and thus I consider them an art, more so than a drug-induced series of phantasms.

[Luciratus]

To be fair, at least Christianity wasn't made up by a science fiction author who once said this:

How do you know?

I propose that religious people are so dismissive of Scientology because they feel threatened by the implications for their own religions of the obviously human-constructed nature of Scientology.

I think you are incorrect. The principle qualm that I have with Scientology is that the people are, quite frankly, stark, raving mad, and it appears to be a pyramid scheme of sorts. After all, an individual can pervert anything. Science, philosophy, religion, history, language- we can twist all of them.

[United Marktoria]

There isn't evidence for either existence or non existence. So, undecided.

[Georgism]

How do you know?

I don't. My guess however is that Christianity The New Testament was made up by a bunch of hippy Jews and exploited by some clever people who knew they could use it to their advantage rather than a science fiction author.

I propose that religious people are so dismissive of Scientology because they feel threatened by the implications for their own religions of the obviously human-constructed nature of Scientology.

Some, perhaps.

Edited.

[Georgism]

To some extent, Lewis's characters were still tangible to the real world and largely symbolic. They represented actual people he knew, and thus I consider them an art, more so than a drug-induced series of phantasms.

That was my point.

[Greater Rhodes]

There isn't evidence for either existence or non existence. So, undecided.

And this is why I am an agnostic

[Lauchlin]

How do you know?

I propose that religious people are so dismissive of Scientology because they feel threatened by the implications for their own religions of the obviously human-constructed nature of Scientology.

I think you are incorrect. The principle qualm that I have with Scientology is that the people are, quite frankly, stark, raving mad, and it appears to be a pyramid scheme of sorts. After all, an individual can pervert anything. Science, philosophy, religion, history, language- we can twist all of them.

Have you ever met a Scientologist? There's a church in my neighbourhood, and most of the ones I meet are much more down to earth and reasonable than people who belong to other religions. It's crazy to believe what they believe, but it's not less crazy to believe in any other religion. Frankly, I consider their supposed extraterrestrial-based theology much less absurd than other mainstream religions.

Scientology is a pyramid scheme the same way Roman Catholicism is a pyramid scheme. Let me know when the Scientologists have as much treasure as the Vatican, and I'll start worrying about them.

[Vestbredden]

God is an invention of the rich and powerful. While the rich feasts on the labor of the oppressed masses, the poor and hardworking have the comfort of dreaming of an afterlife where the social classes would be different. People should snap out of it and wake up and claim the fruits of their work in this life time. Did you know that the richest 1% owns 40%, the richest 5% owns 95% of the wealth. They did not accumulate all that wealth fair and square. God is one of the instruments used to oppress the bottom 95% of the worlds population. And it does not matter which god or gods, that changes over time.

[Dungeyland]

How do you know?

I don't. My guess however is that Christianity was made up by a bunch of hippy Jews and propogated by some clever people who knew they could use it to their advantage rather than a science fiction author.

Well, quite a few atheists think that that Mary, Jesus' mother had sex out of wedlock. Back in that day, women who did that would be stoned to death. To avoid that fate, Mary made up the story about the Messiah, and the generally unhappy people flocked to a story which made them happy (or they hated him).

[Lauchlin]

I don't. My guess however is that Christianity was made up by a bunch of hippy Jews and propogated by some clever people who knew they could use it to their advantage rather than a science fiction author.

Well, quite a few atheists think that that Mary, Jesus' mother had sex out of wedlock. Back in that day, women who did that would be stoned to death. To avoid that fate, Mary made up the story about the Messiah, and the generally unhappy people flocked to a story which made them happy (or they hated him).

That's an overly complicated hypothesis. Why not just suggest that all of that was made up afterwards?

[Georgism]

Well, quite a few atheists think that that Mary, Jesus' mother had sex out of wedlock. Back in that day, women who did that would be stoned to death. To avoid that fate, Mary made up the story about the Messiah, and the generally unhappy people flocked to a story which made them happy (or they hated him).

Meh, I reckon Jesus was an alien-human hybrid.

That idea is also on my list though, although you'd need Joseph to either be crazy or Mary to spike his drink with magic mushrooms *shrugs*

[Luciratus]

I think you are incorrect. The principle qualm that I have with Scientology is that the people are, quite frankly, stark, raving mad, and it appears to be a pyramid scheme of sorts. After all, an individual can pervert anything. Science, philosophy, religion, history, language- we can twist all of them.

Have you ever met a Scientologist? There's a church in my neighbourhood, and most of the ones I meet are much more down to earth and reasonable than people who belong to other religions. It's crazy to believe what they believe, but it's not less crazy to believe in any other religion. Frankly, I consider their supposed extraterrestrial-based theology much less absurd than other mainstream religions.

Scientology is a pyramid scheme the same way Roman Catholicism is a pyramid scheme. Let me know when the Scientologists have as much treasure as the Vatican, and I'll start worrying about them.

I will conceed that I have never actually met a Scinetologist, but I highly doubt that they are more down to Earth than the majority of the U.S. population. I must likewise disagree with the statement that it is more crazy to believe an established religion based on the philosophical principles of the past and sporting some amount of authority than a recent attempt to procure capital. After all, the Vatican's intial purposes were not to rake in the dow, but merely practice their religion. Similarly, most religious people have attempted merely to practice their religion. A former thread dealt with a similar issue to this a while back, though concerning Neo-Pagans (grotesque terminology for a series of religions). However, it was instantly assaulted by politically correct and practicing individuals before adequate discussion could begin. I believe that it raised a number of very real issues concerning believe and truth.

[United Marktoria]

Evidence and/or rational argument required.



How is the state of not thinking god exists selfish? I remain unconvinced that any god exists. How is this a selfish action?



It's not impossible for a god to not exist. There is no inherent contradiction in there not being a god.



Says who? If there is something, then there is. But why MUST it be that way? Why does god necessarily exist?

atheism is selfish due to the fact you people think that you are the most powerful being on earth.

I am pretty sure Atheism doesn't prefess autotheistic beliefs.

[Luciratus]

God is an invention of the rich and powerful. While the rich feasts on the labor of the oppressed masses, the poor and hardworking have the comfort of dreaming of an afterlife where the social classes would be different. People should snap out of it and wake up and claim the fruits of their work in this life time. Did you know that the richest 1% owns 40%, the richest 5% owns 95% of the wealth. They did not accumulate all that wealth fair and square. God is one of the instruments used to oppress the bottom 95% of the worlds population. And it does not matter which god or gods, that changes over time.

What? I presume from your flag that you have been reading Marx and not understanding the concept. The majority of deities advocate charity and love as the highest virtues, these would assist the poor more than plunging a nation into poverty. The rich enjoy a similar "opiate". At least in the West, most individuals enjoy the fruits of their labor- it is typically those who failed who should be assisted. Define fair and square, please. Also, life isn't fair- so don't bother. Those individuals worked and utilized their strength and intellect to be where they are now, feel lucky they don't create a Fascist regime, transform the poor into slaves, and outlaw your Communist ideology. Instead the majority of "bourgeouse" actually give a damn about the poor and donate significant portions of their income. This also has nothing to do with religion. Ninty five percent of the world's population does not worship a god of any sort, due largely to the effects of Communism in Russia and China and the Enlightenment in the West. The last part does not compute.

[Luciratus]

atheism is selfish due to the fact you people think that you are the most powerful being on earth.

I am pretty sure Atheism doesn't prefess autotheistic beliefs.

It does not. It merely suggests that no gods exist. After that, the believes may vary. This company is not responsbile for any potential effects of Atheism which may ensue as a result of exposure, including but not limited to: liking Charles Dawkins, feeling Science is the answer to everything, thinking logically, attracting the consternation of religious nutjobs, ect. Call 1800-Godisalie-orelse to order.

[Katganistan]

God does not exist. Ignorant, emotionally unstable people often turn to "God" in times of trouble and uncertainty. These people are weak and gullible. They want comfort, they want justification and order in their lives. They are uncomfortable for their own insignificance. They feel what most human beings feel about the universe and all its complexity; curiosity. Their minds, essentially, are small, febble and unable to comprehend the intricacy of the universe. Or they do understand, but do not see it as what they want it to be. So they instead find comfort and stability in one set, yet indoctrinated "maxim". The people that fall for this scheme are either desultory or incredulous to reality. When faced with this truth, the empirically observed and logical truth, they petulantly become obstinate and, oddly enough, inaudible to any rationality. Why? Because without their "God", they believe their life is worthless, without meaning or purpose. Without that comfort, they lose the delusion of being eternal. And without that, they begin to see that life is just that; life. And when this truth arises, they see that it is lackluster and unfullfilling. And when they become aware of this cold realization, they lose all sense of guidance. The irony of the situation is that they know this. They, like all other humans, have doubts in their convictions. They know that they are living a lie, a comforting lie, but a lie nevertheless. But, that's my arrogant opinion. So, who really cares about it?

You can certainly have the opinion that God does not exist. What you cannot do is troll and say that people who believe in it are ignorant, emotionally unstable, insignificant, small and feeble-minded, irrational, et cetera.

*** Warned for trolling ***

[Lauchlin]

I will conceed that I have never actually met a Scinetologist, but I highly doubt that they are more down to Earth than the majority of the U.S. population.

Then you're wrong. Their outlook is much more akin to Buddhists than to members of any of the Abrahamic religions. They tend to be much more pleasant and accepting of other faiths and lifestyles than your average Christian, even if, like all of us, they have their own blind spots.

I must likewise disagree with the statement that it is more crazy to believe an established religion based on the philosophical principles of the past and sporting some amount of authority than a recent attempt to procure capital. After all, the Vatican's intial purposes were not to rake in the dow, but merely practice their religion. Similarly, most religious people have attempted merely to practice their religion.

We'll have to agree to disagree there. Scientologists only believe things that are silly, not things that are impossible. Again, like Buddhism, the bulk of their religious practice is about self-improvement, and that's all most Scientologists are concerned about. There are people ripping them off, but there are people ripping practicing Christians off everyday.

I'm not a Scientologist, but one of the things I hate most about Internet culture is the ignorant, bigoted hatred of Scientology that's spread by the bored teenagers of 4chan. I don't understand how anyone with a functioning brain can believe it, but I don't understand how anyone can believe Christianity or Islam or Buddhism either. In some ways it's less destructive than Christianity, and in some ways it's more, but expressing disdain for one while condoning the other is either bigotry or insanity.