Is god real?

[Unidox]

Who can say God is real? No man can; only time will tell.

Actually, everyone can; God(s) is/are as real as you want God(s) to be.

[The Truth and Light]

Nice. Mine does.

Does that make me automatically right? No.

Let's not be cocky.

If there's one thing the Abrahamic religions are about, it's being cocky.

"Thou shalt have no god before me"?
"No one comes to the Father save through me"?
"There is no God but Allah"?

Yeah ... cocky.

Well gee, I guess if you only look at a couple of molecules of religious scripture you can make it look like the exact opposite of what it is.

[Ceannairceach]

If there's one thing the Abrahamic religions are about, it's being cocky.

"Thou shalt have no god before me"?
"No one comes to the Father save through me"?
"There is no God but Allah"?

Yeah ... cocky.

Well gee, I guess if you only look at a couple of molecules of religious scripture you can make it look like the exact opposite of what it is.

Well, the Abrahamic god also ensured the Pharoah wouldn't let the Jews go to prove he could kill babies... Both cocky and douchebag-ish.

[The Truth and Light]

Well gee, I guess if you only look at a couple of molecules of religious scripture you can make it look like the exact opposite of what it is.

Well, the Abrahamic god also ensured the Pharoah wouldn't let the Jews go to prove he could kill babies... Both cocky and douchebag-ish.

Ah, doth sayeth the book of Hollywood.

[Dyakovo]

Nice. Mine does.

Does that make me automatically right? No.

Let's not be cocky.

I think the point was that the assumption 'we are all sinners' is only an assumption worth making if you already agree with the other person's theology.

Exactly

[Ceannairceach]

Well, the Abrahamic god also ensured the Pharoah wouldn't let the Jews go to prove he could kill babies... Both cocky and douchebag-ish.

Ah, doth sayeth the book of Hollywood.

Sayeth the bible.

Must I quote the passage?

[Grave_n_idle]

Well, the Abrahamic god also ensured the Pharoah wouldn't let the Jews go to prove he could kill babies... Both cocky and douchebag-ish.

Ah, doth sayeth the book of Hollywood.

Didn't you say this somewhere before (talking about Adam and Eve, or something)... and completely ignore the fact that the accepted (you seem to call it 'hollywood') version is also arguably scriptural?

[Farnhamia]

If there's one thing the Abrahamic religions are about, it's being cocky.

"Thou shalt have no god before me"?
"No one comes to the Father save through me"?
"There is no God but Allah"?

Yeah ... cocky.

Well gee, I guess if you only look at a couple of molecules of religious scripture you can make it look like the exact opposite of what it is.

Are those not basic tenets of Judaism, Christianity and Islam? Yes, yes, I know all about the Golden Rule and I think it's a fine thing. All three of those religions, however, do insist that they are the only way to the Eternal Whatever It Is Beyond This World. If that's not being cocky, what is?

[The Truth and Light]

Ah, doth sayeth the book of Hollywood.

Didn't you say this somewhere before (talking about Adam and Eve, or something)... and completely ignore the fact that the accepted (you seem to call it 'hollywood') version is also arguably scriptural?

It was written by Moses.


What can I say?

[The Truth and Light]

Well gee, I guess if you only look at a couple of molecules of religious scripture you can make it look like the exact opposite of what it is.

Are those not basic tenets of Judaism, Christianity and Islam? Yes, yes, I know all about the Golden Rule and I think it's a fine thing. All three of those religions, however, do insist that they are the only way to the Eternal Whatever It Is Beyond This World. If that's not being cocky, what is?

The common atheist adage that all believers are irrational.


Plus, Christians aren't cocky. Well, in theory.

[The Truth and Light]

Ah, doth sayeth the book of Hollywood.

Sayeth the bible.

Must I quote the passage?

You need not. I know what it says.

[Ceannairceach]

Didn't you say this somewhere before (talking about Adam and Eve, or something)... and completely ignore the fact that the accepted (you seem to call it 'hollywood') version is also arguably scriptural?

It was written by Moses.


What can I say?

That it was written by someone who is considered a reliable source for the Abrahamic religions? It isn't Hollywood; its scriptural truth.

[Ceannairceach]

Sayeth the bible.

Must I quote the passage?

You need not. I know what it says.

Obviously not, since you seem to think it was made by Hollywood.

[Grave_n_idle]

Didn't you say this somewhere before (talking about Adam and Eve, or something)... and completely ignore the fact that the accepted (you seem to call it 'hollywood') version is also arguably scriptural?

It was written by Moses.


What can I say?

I'm not sure. Are you saying Moses is the 'hollywood' of the Bible?

(Of course - it's also pretty unlikely that 'Moses' literally wrote the scripture attributed to him... but I'm not sure that's the point you were trying to make)

[The Truth and Light]

It was written by Moses.


What can I say?

That it was written by someone who is considered a reliable source for the Abrahamic religions? It isn't Hollywood; its scriptural truth.

The guy thought girls who grabbed the crotch of a male were deserving of death. Most of his laws are overbearing and unnecessary. He also disobeyed God many times. He doesn't seem so reliable.

[Farnhamia]

Are those not basic tenets of Judaism, Christianity and Islam? Yes, yes, I know all about the Golden Rule and I think it's a fine thing. All three of those religions, however, do insist that they are the only way to the Eternal Whatever It Is Beyond This World. If that's not being cocky, what is?

The common atheist adage that all believers are irrational.


Plus, Christians aren't cocky. Well, in theory.

Who said anything about believers being irrational? Not I. A little sarcastic, perhaps, with "the Eternal Whatever It Is Beyond This World." I'll be nice and change it to "God." That better?

[Ceannairceach]

That it was written by someone who is considered a reliable source for the Abrahamic religions? It isn't Hollywood; its scriptural truth.

The guy thought girls who grabbed the crotch of a male were deserving of death. Most of his laws are overbearing and unnecessary. He also disobeyed God many times. He doesn't seem so reliable.

So you are denying one of the major parts of Christian theology as false?

For some reason, I think your joking.

[The Truth and Light]

The guy thought girls who grabbed the crotch of a male were deserving of death. Most of his laws are overbearing and unnecessary. He also disobeyed God many times. He doesn't seem so reliable.

So you are denying one of the major parts of Christian theology as false?

For some reason, I think your joking.

You think my joking is what?

Christianity does just fine without the Torah.

[Ceannairceach]

So you are denying one of the major parts of Christian theology as false?

For some reason, I think your joking.

You think my joking is what?

Christianity does just fine without the Torah.

"Does fine" doesn't mean "disregard it", especially when the Torah is the basis of every Abrahamic religion to date.

And ha ha, yes, I used your instead of you're. Very funny.

[Unhealthy2]

Very well, if we agree that these things are logically incongruent then we are not far from agreeing on the fact that it is fairly unreasonable to demand the possibility of something logically incongruent.

It's also commendable that you point another issue that seems to be the crux of the problem, namely the naïve definition of omnipotence, which was the thing I objected to. Personally I am inclined to the definition of omnipotence of God being the source of all natural powers, being able to create as He sees fit and to transform His creation. Since I believe God is immutable and morally perfect, there are some other things that God cannot do but that we can, but these are not relevant to the definition of omnipotence. The naïve definition of omnipotence is only used in popular rhetoric, so acting as if it is the official theist position and that theism becomes illogical upon its refutation would not be completely intellectually honest.

To end with a more general statement:
Oh, yeah, as I hope you have noticed, I'm not the same person as The Truth and Light.

I never used it to refute god. I only said that it makes an important point, which it most certainly does. Be careful with your definitions, that's the point.

[The Truth and Light]

You think my joking is what?

Christianity does just fine without the Torah.

"Does fine" doesn't mean "disregard it", especially when the Torah is the basis of every Abrahamic religion to date.

And ha ha, yes, I used your instead of you're. Very funny.

Islam is based on the Torah? Zoroastrianism?

The Torah is just not very sensible.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

"Does fine" doesn't mean "disregard it", especially when the Torah is the basis of every Abrahamic religion to date.

And ha ha, yes, I used your instead of you're. Very funny.

Islam is based on the Torah? Zoroastrianism?

The Torah is just not very sensible.

Not directly, but they are derived from a religion that is.

[Ceannairceach]

"Does fine" doesn't mean "disregard it", especially when the Torah is the basis of every Abrahamic religion to date.

And ha ha, yes, I used your instead of you're. Very funny.

Islam is based on the Torah? Zoroastrianism?

The Torah is just not very sensible.

Yes, it is. It, like Christianity, draws from it very much so, but considers it history more than rules, IIRC. And I don't think Zoroastrianism is a Abrahamic religion....

Of course its not. Its a religious text. But it still carries weight as the base of all Abrahamic religions, and shouldn't be thrown away so carelessly.

[Grave_n_idle]

So you are denying one of the major parts of Christian theology as false?

For some reason, I think your joking.

You think my joking is what?

Christianity does just fine without the Torah.

Sure, if you don't need any 'christ' in your 'christ-ianity'.

[The Truth and Light]

You think my joking is what?

Christianity does just fine without the Torah.

Sure, if you don't need any 'christ' in your 'christ-ianity'.

What is the point of this? It has no bearing on reality.

I like Ceannairceach's argument better.