Is god real?

[Luciratus]

Adam is more to blame than Satan? And didn't god create Satan,doing so imperfectly, which with perfect wisdom would have to have been intentional. Plus, Adam didn't do anything wrong, lacking comprehension. And I certainly didn't doing anything, not being born yet. Why am I being punished for an act the I didn't commit?

Satan sounds like a badass now.

I am such a badass. Sparkles the Unicorn = Chuck Norris = Satan = God = Barak Obama = Celine Dion = Badass.

[Hossaim]

I am sorry, but god is just a figure created by people who wanted an explanation for everything. And, as someone has pointed out, If there is evil, god must have created it, for he apparently created everything.

[Hossaim]

Why? Why is he an asshole? Don't give me that flood crap.

Flooded the earth.
Killed people because he didn't like them.
Allowed people to be killed, because he didn't like them.
Refused to allow Pharaoh to release the Jews, ensuring the final plague.
Killed himself, only to have himself revive.
Has allowed people to be killed in his name.
Has allowed destruction in his name.

He's a pretty bad guy, if he exists.

i also want gagatron to answer this.

[Luciratus]

Flooded the earth.
Killed people because he didn't like them.
Allowed people to be killed, because he didn't like them.
Refused to allow Pharaoh to release the Jews, ensuring the final plague.
Killed himself, only to have himself revive.
Has allowed people to be killed in his name.
Has allowed destruction in his name.

He's a pretty bad guy, if he exists.

i also want gagatron to answer this.

Maltheist fail. Most Christians still believe in free will. In the cases where people died it was due to their own immorality and the fact that a larger army was outside their city's gate. Pharaoh still had free choice, even if a deity could have superseded it- why should he? Why is the third one necessarily assine? Various bible verses say not to commit to wars in Jehovah's name and I suppose that supplies to destruction. I have already explained why moral arguments against a deity will always fail. You would be much better served arguing against its actual existence in that form or other forms.

[United Dependencies]

If we are to have this debate we must first establish the operational definition for god. If it has already been mentioned I'm sorry I said this and could someone link me to that post?

[Birrapex]

Adam is more to blame than Satan? And didn't god create Satan,doing so imperfectly, which with perfect wisdom would have to have been intentional. Plus, Adam didn't do anything wrong, lacking comprehension. And I certainly didn't doing anything, not being born yet. Why am I being punished for an act the I didn't commit?

I am going to start by stating, I do not follow christian traditions. My only purpose in informing you of this is to help you gain some understanding so that your argument might be a little more thought provoking next time. Please, have the forethought to study the subject you are so opposed to. Knowledge is power!

According to Genesis (book 1 of the compilation called the bible) Adam received the least punishment which was exile, followed by Eve who was punished by receiving painful child birth and exile, finishing with Satan who had his legs taken away and was to be scorned forever in exile. Sin was at that point passed down from father to son.

Well, as luck would have it, in Psalm or Deuteronomy (I forget which) the prophecy of a coming savior explains that the death of Christ would eliminate the sins of the father being passed down to each generation. From that point on sin is all personal responsibility. In layman's terms: If you smelt it you dealt it.

It should also be noted that no matter which type of sin you are referring to, there is and was always the option to perform sacrifices to cleanse them.

[Birrapex]

If we are to have this debate we must first establish the operational definition for god. If it has already been mentioned I'm sorry I said this and could someone link me to that post?

I haven't seen it, but that is a good idea since the word in the title isn't capitalized it doesn't refer to the Judaic deity specifically, which has been the assumption until now.

[Georgism]

Maltheist fail. Most Christians still believe in free will.

'Free will' does not tackle the problem of natural evil.

It should also be noted that God, if he exists, created us to be imperfect and flawed. Which was a dick move in the first place.

[Gagatron]

Maltheist fail. Most Christians still believe in free will.

'Free will' does not tackle the problem of natural evil.

It should also be noted that God, if he exists, created us to be imperfect and flawed. Which was a dick move in the first place.

False. You seem to think that just because God created us, we should be perfect, which is true. But you also think that since we are imperfect, it is his fault. That is where you're wrong.

Think of God as an engineer, and the human race as a computer. The engineer created a perfect computer, and it was perfect up until a hacker came along and put a virus on it. This was not the Engineer's fault, any more than it was totally the computer's fault, but it was the hacker who did it. Think of the hacker as Satan. God created perfect human beings, until Satan came along and messed us up.

Also understand this. God and Satan were friends, until Satan turned on God. Satan used his own free will to rebel against God. So Satan's rebellion is not God's fault either.

[Georgism]

Also understand this. God and Satan were friends, until Satan turned on God. Satan used his own free will to rebel against God. So Satan's rebellion is not God's fault either.

God created Satan with the ability to rebel.

I also have no desire to worship a being which is so weak as to be beaten by his own creation.

[Hossaim]

'Free will' does not tackle the problem of natural evil.

It should also be noted that God, if he exists, created us to be imperfect and flawed. Which was a dick move in the first place.

False. You seem to think that just because God created us, we should be perfect, which is true. But you also think that since we are imperfect, it is his fault. That is where you're wrong.

Think of God as an engineer, and the human race as a computer. The engineer created a perfect computer, and it was perfect up until a hacker came along and put a virus on it. This was not the Engineer's fault, any more than it was totally the computer's fault, but it was the hacker who did it. Think of the hacker as Satan. God created perfect human beings, until Satan came along and messed us up.

Also understand this. God and Satan were friends, until Satan turned on God. Satan used his own free will to rebel against God. So Satan's rebellion is not God's fault either.

If god can't create a perfect race, then he doesn't deserve to be called god. Where did the hacker come from? exactly.

[Gagatron]

Also understand this. God and Satan were friends, until Satan turned on God. Satan used his own free will to rebel against God. So Satan's rebellion is not God's fault either.

God created Satan with the ability to rebel.

I also have no desire to worship a being which is so weak as to be beaten by his own creation.

"Beaten"? God's not beaten at all. It is God's creation itself which is going to be beaten.

[Dyakovo]

False. You seem to think that just because God created us, we should be perfect, which is true. But you also think that since we are imperfect, it is his fault. That is where you're wrong.

Think of God as an engineer, and the human race as a computer. The engineer created a perfect computer, and it was perfect up until a hacker came along and put a virus on it. This was not the Engineer's fault, any more than it was totally the computer's fault, but it was the hacker who did it. Think of the hacker as Satan. God created perfect human beings, until Satan came along and messed us up.

Also understand this. God and Satan were friends, until Satan turned on God. Satan used his own free will to rebel against God. So Satan's rebellion is not God's fault either.

If god can't create a perfect race, then he doesn't deserve to be called god. Where did the hacker come from? exactly.

the hacker was satan, i.e. another one of "God"'s creations... Obviously Yahweh isn't that good at this whole creating things shtick...

[Hossaim]

God created Satan with the ability to rebel.

I also have no desire to worship a being which is so weak as to be beaten by his own creation.

"Beaten"? God's not beaten at all. It is God's creation itself which is going to be beaten.

why did he create something so evil?

[Dyakovo]

"Beaten"? God's not beaten at all. It is God's creation itself which is going to be beaten.

why did he create something so evil?

So that free will would work?
*shrugs*

He didn't. It's all faerie tales.

[Georgism]

God created Satan with the ability to rebel.

I also have no desire to worship a being which is so weak as to be beaten by his own creation.

"Beaten"? God's not beaten at all. It is God's creation itself which is going to be beaten.

He was so beaten that first he had to flood the Earth and start agains and then he had to kill himself.

And his battle is still far from won.

[Farnhamia]

"Beaten"? God's not beaten at all. It is God's creation itself which is going to be beaten.

why did he create something so evil?

Oh, he didn't. We used to be perfect but we disobeyed him when we listened to the serpent and ate the apple and now we have to be punished. Well, just the ones who don't accept "God's" only begotten son, of course. The ones who do get to fly in circles singing his praises for all eternity. You really need to pay attention.

[Georgism]

So that free will would work?

I know that's not your actual answer, but even that doesn't work. You could have something that thinks about evil without actually carrying it out. In the same way as I can think about jumping to the moon and I can will it with all my heart but I still can't do it.

[Georgism]

Oh, he didn't. We used to be perfect but we disobeyed him when we listened to the serpent and ate the apple and now we have to be punished. Well, just the ones who don't accept "God's" only begotten son, of course. The ones who do get to fly in circles singing his praises for all eternity. You really need to pay attention.

Talking about Satan

[Hossaim]

why did god give us the powers to disobey. i am sure, being god, he could find perfection, he failed miserably.
it doesn't matter, there is no proof he exists, the bible was written by man, man thought him up.

/thread

[Georgism]

why did god give us the powers to disobey. i am sure, being god, he could find perfection, he failed miserably.
it doesn't matter, there is no proof he exists, the bible was written by man, man thought him up.

/thread

Yeah? Well you're a Man U fan so I disagree.

[Hossaim]

why did god give us the powers to disobey. i am sure, being god, he could find perfection, he failed miserably.
it doesn't matter, there is no proof he exists, the bible was written by man, man thought him up.

/thread

Yeah? Well you're a Man U fan so I disagree.

thats is some of the most ignorant and childish crap i have ever heard.

phase 3 now begins.

[Dyakovo]

So that free will would work?

I know that's not your actual answer, but even that doesn't work. You could have something that thinks about evil without actually carrying it out. In the same way as I can think about jumping to the moon and I can will it with all my heart but I still can't do it.

Well, no... My actual answer is that the christian god as presented in the bible is clinically insane, specifically he suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder and as such you would first have to determine which identity created evil to have any hope of determining why he did it.

[Georgism]

thats is some of the most ignorant and childish crap i have ever heard.

You're new here I see

phase 3 now begins.

Rut's dat?

[Hossaim]

my guess how this is going to turn out
phase one: people state opinions
phase two:arguments begin
phase three: any proof for either side is frogotten as both sides hurl insults at each other
phase four: thread is locked

this is phase list