Mormon Missionaries.

[Wilgrove]

OK. Please do not fall prey to false accusations about the LDS church. If you want to learn, ask, or go online, or go straight to the "horses mouth" and pray.

DLN is correct, I am probably doing more harm than good, so I will bow out of this conversation. If you have any more serious questions or concerns, PM me.

I love how religious folks ask the non religious to pray.

If a dedicated and adamant virgin wanted to know more about sex and sexuality, would you advise them to fuck someone?

If I think that prayer is illogical and a waste of time (I don't, necessarily, but that's an altogether different kettle of sturgeon), anyone telling me to "pray about" something is really wasting their time.

I actually would tell the virgin to fuck someone.

[Intangelon]

Okay. Stoned anyone lately?

Turned the other cheek lately? You are referring to Laws of Moses and the Levitical laws, which were rendered obsolete by a new law, Christ's Law. He said "Let any of you who are without sin cast the first stone".

No, I haven't. But I don't have to, do I? You do. You keep bringing up these absolutes and then frowning when someone presents a perfectly reasonable loophole. I don't care what you believe. I start caring when you think we must believe it, too, and that your beliefs should be law for all. Sorry, but I will, as politely as I can, resist that kind of intrusion to my last breath if I must.

[Greed and Death]

OK. Please do not fall prey to false accusations about the LDS church. If you want to learn, ask, or go online, or go straight to the "horses mouth" and pray.

DLN is correct, I am probably doing more harm than good, so I will bow out of this conversation. If you have any more serious questions or concerns, PM me.

I love how religious folks ask the non religious to pray.

If a dedicated and adamant virgin wanted to know more about sex and sexuality, would you advise them to fuck someone?

If I think that prayer is illogical and a waste of time (I don't, necessarily, but that's an altogether different kettle of sturgeon), anyone telling me to "pray about" something is really wasting their time.

I actually would tell the virgin to fuck someone.

I tell the virgin to fuck me, if she is hot.

[Intangelon]

Generally when people feed me i am not confrontational.
Also it is really hard to cause hijinks when they simply say read the book, pray and see if god tells you it is true.
It was so much more fun dealing with the baptist who tried to logically show me Christianity must be true.

I applaud your sense of fairness and decorum. What I wonder, however, is how many people take that friendly advice, read the book, pray, and have God tell them it's not even remotely true? When that happens -- and it must at least sometimes -- what's the answer?

[Greed and Death]

Generally when people feed me i am not confrontational.
Also it is really hard to cause hijinks when they simply say read the book, pray and see if god tells you it is true.
It was so much more fun dealing with the baptist who tried to logically show me Christianity must be true.

I applaud your sense of fairness and decorum. What I wonder, however, is how many people take that friendly advice, read the book, pray, and have God tell them it's not even remotely true? When that happens -- and it must at least sometimes -- what's the answer?

they only say If you are told it is correct by god. I am sure if god tells me something isn't correct, my second question is well god then what is correct ? They seem quite content that the only proof they have id their book. Not like baptist who tell me they found all this archeological evidence to show the bible is real. and I raise an eyebrow and say Oh really?

[Intangelon]

Generally when people feed me i am not confrontational.
Also it is really hard to cause hijinks when they simply say read the book, pray and see if god tells you it is true.
It was so much more fun dealing with the baptist who tried to logically show me Christianity must be true.

I applaud your sense of fairness and decorum. What I wonder, however, is how many people take that friendly advice, read the book, pray, and have God tell them it's not even remotely true? When that happens -- and it must at least sometimes -- what's the answer?

they only say If you are told it is correct by god. I am sure if god tells me something isn't correct, my second question is well god then what is correct ? They seem quite content that the only proof they have id their book. Not like baptist who tell me they found all this archeological evidence to show the bible is real. and I raise an eyebrow and say Oh really?

Oh, like that horseshit about finding Noah's Ark somewhere in the great general vicinity of Mt. Ararat?

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

I have a serious question for the Mormons. Is it true that if I lead a good Mormon life, then when I die, I get to be a God with my own planet?

Ah, that's always a tricky one right there. Lets see if I can approach this with some tact, and honest opinions mixed in with some reference.

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

He that overcometh shall inhereit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

That they all may be one; as though, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world bay believe that thou has sent me.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one;

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know thou has sent me, and has loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me; for thou lovesdst me before the foundation of the world.

Beloved, now we are the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

According to his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue;

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises; that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God;

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ;

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Some reference material, for those who enjoy actual references. Yes, it is scripture – you didn’t think I’d pull this out of thin air, did you?

The concept of Eternal Progression is a difficult one, and one that’s easily misunderstood – or at least that’s how it seems when put in the context of someone else looking at this and going ‘wait, what?’

Prior to getting into all that, let me start with the basics.

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Hopefully, that's laid down a good foundation for pretty much everything else. Especially that first bit.

To lay it out in the basest of terms, we believe that Eternity is not some place that we all get to sit around doing nothing looking pert and sitting on clouds strumming harps all day.

It is believed that there is a plan, and a progression to all of it.

We believe that we are the spirit children of our Heavenly Father. Yes, that does tend to lead to belief in the divine in all of us. And in turn, the divine potential in all of us. Given that, if we live our lives in accordance with God’s commandments, we will be prepared for whatever the next steps are in that eternal progression, and the continual betterment of our immortal spirits.

If you follow that logic full circle, it means that while we will always believe in and worship and be subject to God the Father, those who, like Him, ascend to that step wherein we might also bear our own spirit children to continue the cycle, etc etc etc.

Bit of a mind-bender, granted. And yet, it does make sense if you don’t let yourself get caught up in the finite. I don’t honestly know. I’m still working on some of the principles myself in my head as I go along – which I figure is part of the whole plan. Can’t learn if you don’t ask questions. And you don’t grow or progress much by just blindly accepting everything.

So if you want to oversimplify and say ‘do you believe you can become gods’ … I guess that’s true, to the extent that we believe we are God’s children, and that our progression does not end at death.

Longwinded, lots of refs in there, but there you have it. And yes, I do realize that opens me up to all manner of comments, criticisms, and all the rest, but the question was asked, and I've tried to answer as best of my limited abilities. And am thusly spent.

[Snafturi]

Coffee actually has health benefits. There's research now that shows significantly it could reduce the risk of alzheimer's. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/ ... 6373.shtml

It can also reduce the risk of diabetes, Parkinson's disease, colon cancer, and cavities. http://men.webmd.com/features/coffee-new-health-food

Granted. How many times have doctors said things LIKE "Wine the new heath food" only next week to say "Wine kills you".

As for me and my house, I will obey God. If HE says it's wrong, then it's wrong.

Doctors didn't ever say wine kills you. Yes, if you drink it to excess, it will. But that's true for eating rabbits as well. What they did say was a glass of wine a night with dinner, http://eating.health.com/2008/02/11/6-r ... rink-wine/ Jackasses decided that a glass of wine a day = a bottle so doctors have had to remind people that drinking excessively was bad.

You can eat or drink what you want, that wasn't my objection to your post. But don't pretend that the medical community backs you up.

[CanuckHeaven]

"How do you feel about the founder of your religion being lynched for fraud?"

"How do you feel about your religions institutionalized bigotry, including their historical stance against other races joining?"

"How do you feel about the Mountain Meadows Massacre?"

In another thread, Grave_n_idle talked about a "smear campaign". I guess the above would meet the requirements of a smear campaign?

Also, it appears that some atheists here at NSG love trotting out the bigotry label whenever it suits their purpose and yet they fail to recognize their own bigotry.

As far as the OP is concerned, he took advantage of anothers time and labour for personal gain, then expressed a willingness to take further advantage of others for his own amusement, and then asks other posters to "provide information" that could help augment his amusement. Ultimately it leads to posts such as yours......how sad is that?

[Anemos Major]

Guys, on a completely unrelated note, I'm pretty damn sure the Promised Land is somewhere in 4chan.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Guys, on a completely unrelated note, I'm pretty damn sure the Promised Land is somewhere in 4chan.

[Muravyets]

Generally when people feed me i am not confrontational.
Also it is really hard to cause hijinks when they simply say read the book, pray and see if god tells you it is true.
It was so much more fun dealing with the baptist who tried to logically show me Christianity must be true.

Oh, well, that's disappointing. How was the food?

[Greed and Death]

Generally when people feed me i am not confrontational.
Also it is really hard to cause hijinks when they simply say read the book, pray and see if god tells you it is true.
It was so much more fun dealing with the baptist who tried to logically show me Christianity must be true.

Oh, well, that's disappointing. How was the food?

Meat potatoes and vegetables mostly. Good hearty fare.

[Intestinal fluids]

Turned the other cheek lately? You are referring to Laws of Moses and the Levitical laws, which were rendered obsolete by a new law, Christ's Law. He said "Let any of you who are without sin cast the first stone".

Does this mean Christ banned sinning people from throwing stones? I used to live on the shore of a lake with lots of flat rocks. i think im going to hell.

[Intestinal fluids]

Everyone pass around the sugar pills. God will save us all.

[Muravyets]

Meat potatoes and vegetables mostly. Good hearty fare.

Gods, vague much? You've left us with nothing else to talk about. At least give us the menu! I want to know if it's worth my while to talk to these pests instead of just slamming my door when they come round, as I do with all the other pests.

[Phenia]

Also, it appears that some atheists here at NSG love trotting out the bigotry label whenever it suits their purpose and yet they fail to recognize their own bigotry.

I fail to recognize what isn't there. Heck, that might be why I'm an atheist too!

Criticizing the LDS is not bigotry. Pointing out the LDS examples of bigotry is not either.

[Intestinal fluids]

Gods, vague much? You've left us with nothing else to talk about. At least give us the menu! I want to know if it's worth my while to talk to these pests instead of just slamming my door when they come round, as I do with all the other pests.

I get annoyed when i get a 30 second telemarketer phone call. Imagine being trapped in a room for WAY longer then 30 seconds and not being able to get easily away. There is no food on the Earth worth it. I can get any food i want in almost any store in the country with no speeches to endure except "Paper or Plastic?".

[Muravyets]

Gods, vague much? You've left us with nothing else to talk about. At least give us the menu! I want to know if it's worth my while to talk to these pests instead of just slamming my door when they come round, as I do with all the other pests.

I get annoyed when i get a 30 second telemarketer phone call. Imagine being trapped in a room for WAY longer then 30 seconds and not being able to get easily away. There is no food on the Earth worth it. I can get any food i want in almost any store in the country with no speeches to endure except "Paper or Plastic?".

Good point. I guess I'm just idly curious. I mean...was it pot roast or ribs? Was there gravy? Did they make it or was it out of a jar? Did they mash or fry the potatoes? The vegetable -- broccoli, carrots, or that crappy frozen peas and carrots mix? What about beverage -- was it all apple juice, all the time, or what? Were there cupcakes for desert? What do Mormons eat, anyway????



(EDIT: Before DLN gets on my ass, I know Mormons eat what everybody else eats.)

[Greed and Death]

Good point. I guess I'm just idly curious. I mean...was it pot roast or ribs? Was there gravy? Did they make it or was it out of a jar? Did they mash or fry the potatoes? The vegetable -- broccoli, carrots, or that crappy frozen peas and carrots mix? What about beverage -- was it all apple juice, all the time, or what? Were there cupcakes for desert? What do Mormons eat, anyway????



(EDIT: Before DLN gets on my ass, I know Mormons eat what everybody else eats.)

Pot roast, ham, turkey. Gravy brown and white. All of it hand made by the women folk. Mashed potatoes. Broccoli, Carrots. I had water to drink. They also had koolaid and cranberry juice.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I have a serious question for the Mormons. Is it true that if I lead a good Mormon life, then when I die, I get to be a God with my own planet?

Ah, that's always a tricky one right there. Lets see if I can approach this with some tact, and honest opinions mixed in with some reference.

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

He that overcometh shall inhereit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

That they all may be one; as though, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world bay believe that thou has sent me.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one;

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know thou has sent me, and has loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me; for thou lovesdst me before the foundation of the world.

Beloved, now we are the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

According to his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue;

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises; that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God;

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ;

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Some reference material, for those who enjoy actual references. Yes, it is scripture – you didn’t think I’d pull this out of thin air, did you?

The concept of Eternal Progression is a difficult one, and one that’s easily misunderstood – or at least that’s how it seems when put in the context of someone else looking at this and going ‘wait, what?’

Prior to getting into all that, let me start with the basics.

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Hopefully, that's laid down a good foundation for pretty much everything else. Especially that first bit.

To lay it out in the basest of terms, we believe that Eternity is not some place that we all get to sit around doing nothing looking pert and sitting on clouds strumming harps all day.

It is believed that there is a plan, and a progression to all of it.

We believe that we are the spirit children of our Heavenly Father. Yes, that does tend to lead to belief in the divine in all of us. And in turn, the divine potential in all of us. Given that, if we live our lives in accordance with God’s commandments, we will be prepared for whatever the next steps are in that eternal progression, and the continual betterment of our immortal spirits.

If you follow that logic full circle, it means that while we will always believe in and worship and be subject to God the Father, those who, like Him, ascend to that step wherein we might also bear our own spirit children to continue the cycle, etc etc etc.

Bit of a mind-bender, granted. And yet, it does make sense if you don’t let yourself get caught up in the finite. I don’t honestly know. I’m still working on some of the principles myself in my head as I go along – which I figure is part of the whole plan. Can’t learn if you don’t ask questions. And you don’t grow or progress much by just blindly accepting everything.

So if you want to oversimplify and say ‘do you believe you can become gods’ … I guess that’s true, to the extent that we believe we are God’s children, and that our progression does not end at death.

Longwinded, lots of refs in there, but there you have it. And yes, I do realize that opens me up to all manner of comments, criticisms, and all the rest, but the question was asked, and I've tried to answer as best of my limited abilities. And am thusly spent.

Holy Mother of a post Nathi!

[Intangelon]

*snip the effort*

Holy Mother of a post Nathi!

Agreed -- but isn't it great that someone took the time to actually back up their assertions rather than say "I'm not wrong, look it up"?

Thanks, DLN, you sexy, information-providing beast, you.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

*snip the effort*

Holy Mother of a post Nathi!

Agreed -- but isn't it great that someone took the time to actually back up their assertions rather than say "I'm not wrong, look it up"?

Thanks, DLN, you sexy, information-providing beast, you.

That's why I want her. I do.

[Smunkeeville]

"How do you feel about the founder of your religion being lynched for fraud?"

"How do you feel about your religions institutionalized bigotry, including their historical stance against other races joining?"

"How do you feel about the Mountain Meadows Massacre?"

In another thread, Grave_n_idle talked about a "smear campaign". I guess the above would meet the requirements of a smear campaign?

Also, it appears that some atheists here at NSG love trotting out the bigotry label whenever it suits their purpose and yet they fail to recognize their own bigotry.

As far as the OP is concerned, he took advantage of anothers time and labour for personal gain, then expressed a willingness to take further advantage of others for his own amusement, and then asks other posters to "provide information" that could help augment his amusement. Ultimately it leads to posts such as yours......how sad is that?

Holy shit, we agree on something.

I'm scared.

[Muravyets]

Good point. I guess I'm just idly curious. I mean...was it pot roast or ribs? Was there gravy? Did they make it or was it out of a jar? Did they mash or fry the potatoes? The vegetable -- broccoli, carrots, or that crappy frozen peas and carrots mix? What about beverage -- was it all apple juice, all the time, or what? Were there cupcakes for desert? What do Mormons eat, anyway????



(EDIT: Before DLN gets on my ass, I know Mormons eat what everybody else eats.)

Pot roast, ham, turkey. Gravy brown and white. All of it hand made by the women folk. Mashed potatoes. Broccoli, Carrots. I had water to drink. They also had koolaid and cranberry juice.

That's a lot of meat. And an interesting mix of beverages. Instead of "red or white", they go for "real or fake"?

EDIT: Were there kids present? Sometimes kids won't go for the real stuff; they just want their powdered drink mixes.