Mormon Missionaries.

[Muravyets]

I was one of those "Mormon missionaries" for 2 years... It was fun!

Trust me, if you want to have a great spiritual experience, they can provide it. If you want to learn more about the meaning of life, just listen to them talk.

If you want to just ask every weird question that ever came across your mind, do it. If you feel like playing a role just to mess with them, then at the most they'll just remember the experience and tell all their friends how funny it was.

They're just normal kids, that have chosen to spend 2 years of their life talking about their religion.

My advice to you is to hear them out. Pray about whay you hear from them.


I'm not going to bother reading the rest of this thread because it's probably devolved into the normal Mormon Bashing session, but send me a Telegram if you want to talk more!

What can I learn more about by watching them talk to my breasts after I've told them that no part of me wants to have a conversation with them?

No, seriously, the Mormon missionaries in the metro Boston area are pervs. Really. Not a reflection on Mormonism, because I've seen plenty of Mormons who know how to hide their hormones, but my town gets the dregs of the training progam, I'm assuming. Really, my breasts are good, but come on now.

[Intangelon]

Native Americans. All of them.

Next question.

(Talk about ignorance, sheesh.)

OK, fine. One could argue that Indians were exterminated becuse of thier religion, however, you missed my previous point that actually, they are the SAME religion. have no idea what I'm talking about? Look it up.

No, sorry. YOU are making the claim that the Mormons and Native American religions are THE SAME. Not even similar, but THE SAME. I'm calling bullshit, and you're the one upon whom the burden of proof rests. There is no Christ in ANY Native American religion, and should you try to show me one, I shall know that you've no idea what the words THE SAME mean. Please, do try, but don't pawn off your intellectual responsibility on me when you're the one pulling this stuff out of the aether.

[Phenia]

Can we not turn this into a prop 8 discussion. Those have been done to death already.

I'll gladly shut up once someone - anyone - can give me ONE valid reason why preventing gay marriage "Protects California children."

I've been saying this ever since that shit began.

Not one person, anywhere, has been able to. Not one person has even wanted to try. KiloMikeBeta is not going to either, because that was disgusting, Nazi-esque bigotry and is completely indefensible and he knows it.

[Muravyets]

the Word of Wisdom as it is called, says "hot drinks are not for the belly". Modern prophets have indicated this is coffee and tea (excluding herbal tea)

We are not told it is the caffeine. There are plenty of other harmful substances in both coffee and tea.

That makes no sense. There are plenty of harmful substances in everything. "Hot drinks"? Nonsense.

What about herbal teas, too? As far as I know there is no caffeine in chamomile, mint or rose hips.

[Wilgrove]

You guys liketo make fun, fine. Next time there is a disaster in your area, pay attention to who shows up and helps.

Fair enough. Next time there is a gay marriage initiative on the ballot in your state, pay attention to who drops millions in hidden in-kind contributions to oppose something that has no bearing on them, just because.

Our Bishops like any other clergy, are licensed to perform marriages. The reason *I* opposed the bill was the fear that we would be FORCED to perform gay marriages. The Church has NO contributions to the bill. The members, well, we can contribute to whatever we want. Plus, you don't mention that the most vocal supporters of the bill were Non-LDS blacks. So now Blacks are evil, hate mongering bigots as well?

Ok, so I have a question...How would you have been forced to perform gay marriage? Knowing full well that the First Amendment says that Congress, shall make no law regarding religion and state...

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Native Americans. All of them.

Next question.

(Talk about ignorance, sheesh.)

OK, fine. One could argue that Indians were exterminated becuse of thier religion, however, you missed my previous point that actually, they are the SAME religion. have no idea what I'm talking about? Look it up.

No, sorry. YOU are making the claim that the Mormons and Native American religions are THE SAME. Not even similar, but THE SAME. I'm calling bullshit, and you're the one upon whom the burden of proof rests. There is no Christ in ANY Native American religion, and should you try to show me one, I shall know that you've no idea what the words THE SAME mean. Please, do try, but don't pawn off your intellectual responsibility on me when you're the one pulling this stuff out of the aether.

I refer you to the Book of Mormon. That is my source. I dare you to read it then refute my claim. I could post the proof here, but since the source is the BoM, you would likely refute it. You may not belive it, but that is where I am getting my information.

You look REALLY silly talking about stuff you have no idea about.

[Greed and Death]

I was one of those "Mormon missionaries" for 2 years... It was fun!

Trust me, if you want to have a great spiritual experience, they can provide it. If you want to learn more about the meaning of life, just listen to them talk.

If you want to just ask every weird question that ever came across your mind, do it. If you feel like playing a role just to mess with them, then at the most they'll just remember the experience and tell all their friends how funny it was.

They're just normal kids, that have chosen to spend 2 years of their life talking about their religion.

My advice to you is to hear them out. Pray about whay you hear from them.


I'm not going to bother reading the rest of this thread because it's probably devolved into the normal Mormon Bashing session, but send me a Telegram if you want to talk more!

What can I learn more about by watching them talk to my breasts after I've told them that no part of me wants to have a conversation with them?

No, seriously, the Mormon missionaries in the metro Boston area are pervs. Really. Not a reflection on Mormonism, because I've seen plenty of Mormons who know how to hide their hormones, but my town gets the dregs of the training progam, I'm assuming. Really, my breasts are good, but come on now.

I better conduct an analysis, send me pictures of the stared at area and i will tell you exactly how much of a normal male response this is. And what to wear to prevent further occurrences. *nod*

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Ok, so I have a question...How would you have been forced to perform gay marriage? Knowing full well that the First Amendment says that Congress, shall make no law regarding religion and state...

Hmm... No one has EVER cried discrimination before? No one has ever tried to force an organization to do something beyond thier beliefs? Hm... where was it.... its coming to me... Oh Yeah. the Boy Scouts of America.

[Redwulf]

I'd think, given how many members we have, and how close-knit wards are, that if people were being killed in the temples? We'd more or less know about it. *facepalms* In the few things I've participated in at the temples, there has been nothing whatsoever untoward, immoral, uncomfortable, wrong, bad, evil, abusive, or anything of the sort involved.

So, no rampant homophobia or attempts to remove/prevent the right of homosexuals to marry was carried out by your local temples then?

It is no secret that we are against homosexual marriage. We are not against Homosexuals, just homosexual sex, because we belive that sex is ordained specifically between a man and a woman who are legally wed.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD

That's nice. Now how is it a basis for law? Why does your religion get to tell me what my religion is allowed to do?

[Wilgrove]

Ok, so I have a question...How would you have been forced to perform gay marriage? Knowing full well that the First Amendment says that Congress, shall make no law regarding religion and state...

Hmm... No one has EVER cried discrimination before? No one has ever tried to force an organization to do something beyond thier beliefs? Hm... where was it.... its coming to me... Oh Yeah. the Boy Scouts of America.

The Boy Scout of America is not a church. It is an organization that is supported by local churches.

I want you to cite one instance where churches were forced to wed gay couples.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

People, a reminder here - anyone can create an agenda out of anything. And anywhere you have one person's 'rights' at question, you can show that another person's 'rights' are infringed on by allowing one, or the other to be put ahead.

"Gays can't marry" doesn't seem terribly fair to those who want to, any more than "You cannot pray in public" does for those who feel its their right to express their beliefs as they see fit. No, the two do not equate, but I'm kicking those examples out there anyway. "Gay is Ok" vs "No, it isn't" - either way you're forcing your opinions on another group of people, and either way, pepole are going to feel their rights are being trampled on.

No matter who you are, or what you believe, someone somewhere out there is going to disagree with you, with what they feel your rights ought to be, and what you ought to be allowed to do on account.

All we accomplish is a lot of arguing, finger-pointing, and accusations that get more than a little personal, and usually aren't entirely accurate. Quite frankly, marriage ought to be left up to the individual churches, and ANY other legal joinings ought to be 'civil unions' regardless of gender. The government ought to stay out of the whole thing. Pity there's so much money involved in it, what with taxes, and benefits, and all the rest. >_<

Anyways.

Back on topic: Again. If you don't want to hear what missionaries have to offer, just say 'no'. No need to be a jerk. No need to take advantage. No need to be fake, or waste their time or yours. If you truly are so superior in your beliefs and stances - put your money where your mouth is and show it by handling the situation with some modicum of mutual respect for another human being who is simply trying to share something they feel is important, whether you agree with it or not, as is your right.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

That's nice. Now how is it a basis for law? Why does your religion get to tell me what my religion is allowed to do?

Hmm.... why do millions of non-Mormon Californians get to have a say in Government? It's called the democratic process. Look it up.

[Intangelon]

Our Bishops like any other clergy, are licensed to perform marriages. The reason *I* opposed the bill was the fear that we would be FORCED to perform gay marriages. The Church has NO contributions to the bill. The members, well, we can contribute to whatever we want. Plus, you don't mention that the most vocal supporters of the bill were Non-LDS blacks. So now Blacks are evil, hate mongering bigots as well?

Bullshit twice.

You opposed the bill because your religion told you to. Can you show me ANY instance in which ANY clergy in ANY state allowing gay marriage has been FORCED to marry a couple whose relationship runs contrary to their teachings? No, you can't. That fear was drummed up by (religious) opposition who just don't like homosexuality. And that's fine, that's your right, but to spread lies and false propaganda in order to get what you want doesn't sound very Christ-like to me.

The Church -- YOUR Church -- authorized millions of dollars' worth of in-kind contributions (man-hours, materials, etc.). Nice strawman with the blacks, too, but no, you can try to put words in my mouth all you like, but "non-LDS Blacks" isn't an organized religion at last notice. You may wish you could weasel out of your Church's bullying tactics, but you can't.

You've asked us to look at some links, now I ask you to look at one. Here's the Massachusetts Experience video in which clergy in MA show how the sky has not fallen in MA after five years of legal homosexual marriages. No church has been forced to marry anyone. That information was available to you long before the Prop 8 vote in CA. Somehow, I doubt your church made it available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJF5TREeliw

[Muravyets]

Actually its fairly standard practice to pitch in and organize within the churches to assist whenever something bad happens. When we had the flooding out here in the Midwest last year, we showed up at church only to have the bishop ask that everyone there who could go home, get changed, and help unload supplies that they had coming in, and to help sandbag. Cut the meeting right short, and folks got down to business. Nevermind the usual belief that we need to take part in our communities even in the best of times, and help folks that need help, etc etc. Can't tell you how many times I've been involved in service projects of one sort or another, be it making baby quilts for the local hospitals, to putting together care packages for people abroad (or wherever things have been bad) with basic toiletries and other such items, canned/non-perishable food gathering, clothing donations ... whatever was needed.

That being said, we're not the only ones who do these sorts of things, and quite frankly, 'recognition' isn't why they're done. Nor should it be. So whether or not people are aware of who is helping them doesn't matter to me so much as those people are getting help from someone, somewhere, and if we're able to step up - fantastic.

Well, that's so nice.

But it hardly back up KMA's cryptic and rather creepy admonitions that we "should just pay attention" as if the Mormons are some secret league of life saving angels who can appear out of the dark of a disastrous night like a miracle. I live in the heart of the metro Boston area, and trust me, the few Mormons who rattle about around here are going to be lost in the mobs of municipal and state emergency services, Catholic and various Protestant church organizations (which are massive and have this territory pretty well sewn up; hell, the Mormons even had to yield their mission in East Somerville to the Brazilian Assembly of God (that was a (not)fun door-to-door missionary turf war, let me tell you; I disconnected my doorbell because of it)), not to mention US military forces as we host both the Charlestown Navy Yard and several Coast Guard stations, as well as the mind-bogglingly huge array medical and emergency care staffs of all the hospitals associated with Harvard Medical School.

I'd have to pay attention indeed to spot a Mormon trying to give me a blanket in that crowd.

[Magechill-Izeckistan]

For other posters, is it only a small percentage of Mormons that believe in odd things such as the Promised Land being in Arizona, among other small oddities?

They try to take Arizona, and fail, from the Episcopals.They try by, gasp, MAGAZINE SALES....

[Intangelon]

Umm we have MILLIONS of members in California. They are citizens. Citizens should vote thier beliefs. I wont apologize for that.

And you shouldn't!

However, your Church has much to answer for with the lies, appeals to emotion, and misrepresentation in its propaganda regarding Prop 8.

[Wilgrove]

Umm we have MILLIONS of members in California. They are citizens. Citizens should vote thier beliefs. I wont apologize for that.

And you shouldn't!

However, your Church has much to answer for with the lies, appeals to emotion, and misrepresentation in its propaganda regarding Prop 8.

That's what politics has become. It's no longer about rational thought or facts or figures. It's now an emotional war for our heart strings.

Politics has become Family Circus.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

<snip>
That being said, we're not the only ones who do these sorts of things, and quite frankly, 'recognition' isn't why they're done. Nor should it be. So whether or not people are aware of who is helping them doesn't matter to me so much as those people are getting help from someone, somewhere, and if we're able to step up - fantastic.

Well, that's so nice.

But it hardly back up KMA's cryptic and rather creepy admonitions that we "should just pay attention" as if the Mormons are some secret league of life saving angels who can appear out of the dark of a disastrous night like a miracle. I live in the heart of the metro Boston area, and trust me, the few Mormons who rattle about around here are going to be lost in the mobs of municipal and state emergency services, Catholic and various Protestant church organizations (which are massive and have this territory pretty well sewn up; hell, the Mormons even had to yield their mission in East Somerville to the Brazilian Assembly of God (that was a (not)fun door-to-door missionary turf war, let me tell you; I disconnected my doorbell because of it)), not to mention US military forces as we host both the Charlestown Navy Yard and several Coast Guard stations, as well as the mind-bogglingly huge array medical and emergency care staffs of all the hospitals associated with Harvard Medical School.

I'd have to pay attention indeed to spot a Mormon trying to give me a blanket in that crowd.

Did you actually bother reading, or are you so dead-set on calling every Mormon a right bastard that you sorta miss the details? Or did you miss that I am not KMA, nor can either one of us 'speak for' or 'be responsible for' our religion as a whole? Do you make it a point to ask what religion or affiliation someone is before accepting assistance, perhaps? I know I never have, just been thankful someone out there was willing to lend a hand.

Geeze, get a grip, step back, go get something to drink and cool off for a minute or something. Whole lot of unwarranted nastiness there.

[Intangelon]

I refer you to the Book of Mormon. That is my source. I dare you to read it then refute my claim. I could post the proof here, but since the source is the BoM, you would likely refute it. You may not belive it, but that is where I am getting my information.

You look REALLY silly talking about stuff you have no idea about.

Look, sir, I don't know where you get off telling me to read a whole religious text in order to search for evidence of a claim YOU HAVE MADE.

Get that? YOU have made the claim that Mormonism, a religion centered on Jesus Christ of Nazareth, is THE SAME -- not similar, THE SAME -- as Native American religions. YOU need to tell ME where in your sprawling text to look for this similarity.

Do Mormons have sweat lodges? Smudge sticks? Do they dance? Do they believe that everything has a spirit, even the very rocks they stand on? YOU, sir, profess to be a Mormon and profess this SAMENESS. It is up to YOU to show it. Unless you can't. In which case, YOU are the one looking silly by saying "THIS IS TRUE" and then "I DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S TRUE, BUT IT IS."

I'm not engaging you further on this particular point until you offer the evidence or admit that you simply do not know.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Our Bishops like any other clergy, are licensed to perform marriages. The reason *I* opposed the bill was the fear that we would be FORCED to perform gay marriages. The Church has NO contributions to the bill. The members, well, we can contribute to whatever we want. Plus, you don't mention that the most vocal supporters of the bill were Non-LDS blacks. So now Blacks are evil, hate mongering bigots as well?

Bullshit twice.

You opposed the bill because your religion told you to. Can you show me ANY instance in which ANY clergy in ANY state allowing gay marriage has been FORCED to marry a couple whose relationship runs contrary to their teachings? No, you can't. That fear was drummed up by (religious) opposition who just don't like homosexuality. And that's fine, that's your right, but to spread lies and false propaganda in order to get what you want doesn't sound very Christ-like to me.

The Church -- YOUR Church -- authorized millions of dollars' worth of in-kind contributions (man-hours, materials, etc.). Nice strawman with the blacks, too, but no, you can try to put words in my mouth all you like, but "non-LDS Blacks" isn't an organized religion at last notice. You may wish you could weasel out of your Church's bullying tactics, but you can't.

You've asked us to look at some links, now I ask you to look at one. Here's the Massachusetts Experience video in which clergy in MA show how the sky has not fallen in MA after five years of legal homosexual marriages. No church has been forced to marry anyone. That information was available to you long before the Prop 8 vote in CA. Somehow, I doubt your church made it available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJF5TREeliw

I failed to find any references either, at least during the 2 mins I searched. That does not mean that in this day and age of rampant litigisnous (sic) it woud not have happened.

[Muravyets]

So you are claiming that the LDS now run the Somerville (MA) Fire and Police Departments? Because they'll be the first on the scene in the event of a disaster in my area. And if not them, then the Malden Fire and Police Depts in East Somerville, or the Cambridge Fire and Police in the western parts of Somerville.

He does have a point. The Mormons and lots of other churches send help to natural disasters.
And if New Orleans and Katrina is a benchmark, they may get there before FEMA does.

And that accounts for his "just pay attention to who shows up to help you" act...how?

And here's another question -- maybe your dinner hosts can answer this one for us -- How does their willingness to help set them apart from any other church of any other religion? Or apart from any non-religious civic organization for that matter?

And another -- Why should the fact that they do exactly the same nice thing that every other church does cause the rest of the world to give them a free pass for stunts like their Prop 8 campaign? Or why should it mean we should not criticize their missionary habits as much as we criticize any other religion's missionary habits?

[Intangelon]

Ok, so I have a question...How would you have been forced to perform gay marriage? Knowing full well that the First Amendment says that Congress, shall make no law regarding religion and state...

Hmm... No one has EVER cried discrimination before? No one has ever tried to force an organization to do something beyond thier beliefs? Hm... where was it.... its coming to me... Oh Yeah. the Boy Scouts of America.

Another religious organization who has won the right to discriminate. Can you name the exact incident you're referring to with the BSA? I doubt it, but go on, try.

[Redwulf]

Next question.

(Talk about ignorance, sheesh.)

OK, fine. One could argue that Indians were exterminated becuse of thier religion, however, you missed my previous point that actually, they are the SAME religion. have no idea what I'm talking about? Look it up.

No, sorry. YOU are making the claim that the Mormons and Native American religions are THE SAME. Not even similar, but THE SAME. I'm calling bullshit, and you're the one upon whom the burden of proof rests. There is no Christ in ANY Native American religion, and should you try to show me one, I shall know that you've no idea what the words THE SAME mean. Please, do try, but don't pawn off your intellectual responsibility on me when you're the one pulling this stuff out of the aether.[/quote]

I refer you to the Book of Mormon. That is my source. I dare you to read it then refute my claim. I could post the proof here, but since the source is the BoM, you would likely refute it. You may not belive it, but that is where I am getting my information.

You look REALLY silly talking about stuff you have no idea about.[/quote]

The irony! It both burns and tickles!

[Wilgrove]

I failed to find any references either, at least during the 2 mins I searched. That does not mean that in this day and age of rampant litigisnous (sic) it woud not have happened.

*sigh* Ok, I am going to quote the First Amendment, and highlight the part that prevents it from happening.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Honestly, I may make a pamphlet highlighting this fact and send it to Churches of all denomination everywhere.

[Redwulf]

People, a reminder here - anyone can create an agenda out of anything. And anywhere you have one person's 'rights' at question, you can show that another person's 'rights' are infringed on by allowing one, or the other to be put ahead.

"Gays can't marry" doesn't seem terribly fair to those who want to, any more than "You cannot pray in public" does for those who feel its their right to express their beliefs as they see fit.

It's a good thing the second rule doesn't exist, isn't it?