Mormon Missionaries.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Sorry, actually the best resource for non-LDS is probably http://www.mormon.org .

[Redwulf]

I'd think, given how many members we have, and how close-knit wards are, that if people were being killed in the temples? We'd more or less know about it. *facepalms* In the few things I've participated in at the temples, there has been nothing whatsoever untoward, immoral, uncomfortable, wrong, bad, evil, abusive, or anything of the sort involved.

So, no rampant homophobia or attempts to remove/prevent the right of homosexuals to marry was carried out by your local temples then?

[Intangelon]

Almost right, Coffee, tea, nicotine, alcohol, illicit drugs, etc. It is called the Word of Wisdom and it just so happens to list those things which are harmful to you, and it listed them before the medical profession agreed.

Except that many medical professionals agree that moderation in the use of caffeine is beneficial. Do you know why? Because medical professionals are usually scientists. Scientists refuse to let commonly-held truths sit too long without a bit of study or some other new angle to test them from. That's my problem with religion. No peer review, and no experiments.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

And to answer the question of the OP

Euthyphro dilemma
"Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?"

I am sure the missionaries would not balk too much at this question. In fact, there is a very simple answer. The answer is sure to raise debate, but it IS the answer.

The simple answer is : There are laws that God himself must follow. If he breaks those laws he ceases to become God. Our moral laws come from those laws. Therefore, neither are correct. They are moral because they just are.

Before you all start regurgitating the exact argument I know you are itching to use, please make sure you are not using flawed predicates.

[Intangelon]

But you had it. That is a taint on your pseudo-peaceful religion.

Umm what do you mean. we had it so we are not peaceful? They were ordered to kill MORMONS. What other religion in the US has had an extermination order placed on them by a Governer?

Native Americans. All of them.

Next question.

(Talk about ignorance, sheesh.)

[Tmutarakhan]

They didn't have official membership rolls. But his whole ideological approach, of trying to read Daniel and Revelation as about present-day events and calculate the exact date of the end-time events, was pure Millerite.

Ah, so his beliefs coincided in some respects with the Millerites, but you can't prove that he actually was one.

Gotcha.

No, you didn't really get what I was saying. It depends on what you mean by "actually was". Can you prove that someone "actually is" a Cubs fan? Okay, he went to a lot of games in Wrigley Field and talked about the players incessantly, but was he "actually" a fan?

[KiloMikeAlpha]

I'd think, given how many members we have, and how close-knit wards are, that if people were being killed in the temples? We'd more or less know about it. *facepalms* In the few things I've participated in at the temples, there has been nothing whatsoever untoward, immoral, uncomfortable, wrong, bad, evil, abusive, or anything of the sort involved.

So, no rampant homophobia or attempts to remove/prevent the right of homosexuals to marry was carried out by your local temples then?

It is no secret that we are against homosexual marriage. We are not against Homosexuals, just homosexual sex, because we belive that sex is ordained specifically between a man and a woman who are legally wed.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

I'd think, given how many members we have, and how close-knit wards are, that if people were being killed in the temples? We'd more or less know about it. *facepalms* In the few things I've participated in at the temples, there has been nothing whatsoever untoward, immoral, uncomfortable, wrong, bad, evil, abusive, or anything of the sort involved.

So, no rampant homophobia or attempts to remove/prevent the right of homosexuals to marry was carried out by your local temples then?

Temples aren't the place for any of that anyway, so your question there is somewhat disingenuous. Homophobia? Hardly. People wanting to preserve their ideals and morals within the community? I'd say that was going on in a number of groups - Mormons being but a percentage of them.

I wasn't aware the purpose of this thread was to switch to Mormon-bashing and political agendas.

As I stated initially - if you aren't interested in what the missionaries have to offer, don't waste your time, or theirs. Fairly simple.

[Capsule Corporation]

I was one of those "Mormon missionaries" for 2 years... It was fun!

Trust me, if you want to have a great spiritual experience, they can provide it. If you want to learn more about the meaning of life, just listen to them talk.

If you want to just ask every weird question that ever came across your mind, do it. If you feel like playing a role just to mess with them, then at the most they'll just remember the experience and tell all their friends how funny it was.

They're just normal kids, that have chosen to spend 2 years of their life talking about their religion.

My advice to you is to hear them out. Pray about whay you hear from them.


I'm not going to bother reading the rest of this thread because it's probably devolved into the normal Mormon Bashing session, but send me a Telegram if you want to talk more!

[Intangelon]

the Word of Wisdom as it is called, says "hot drinks are not for the belly". Modern prophets have indicated this is coffee and tea (excluding herbal tea)

We are not told it is the caffeine. There are plenty of other harmful substances in both coffee and tea.

That makes no sense. There are plenty of harmful substances in everything. "Hot drinks"? Nonsense.

[Muravyets]

You guys liketo make fun, fine. Next time there is a disaster in your area, pay attention to who shows up and helps.

Hordes of Mormons? You've taken over FEMA and the Somerville (MA) Fire and Police Departments?

[Tmutarakhan]

We are not against Homosexuals, just homosexual sex

Uh, denying me any sexual pleasure is being "against" me in a rather profound way.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

But you had it. That is a taint on your pseudo-peaceful religion.

Umm what do you mean. we had it so we are not peaceful? They were ordered to kill MORMONS. What other religion in the US has had an extermination order placed on them by a Governer?

Native Americans. All of them.

Next question.

(Talk about ignorance, sheesh.)

OK, fine. One could argue that Indians were exterminated becuse of thier religion, however, you missed my previous point that actually, they are the SAME religion. have no idea what I'm talking about? Look it up.

[Tmutarakhan]

I don't think its too much to ask that some things are considered sacred and given some modicum of respect on account.

Yes it is.

[Phenia]

It is no secret that we are against homosexual marriage. We are not against Homosexuals

Yeah, you just spread hate, fear, and ignorance about them. Again, "Protect California Children" was the LDS contribution to the Proposition 8 campaign.

Somehow, gay marriage is a threat to "children."

Just the same way you ply the emotive, fear-mongering and hate-mongering BS about pro-choice being "baby killers," your filthy organization serves as a propaganda tool for hate and bigotry.

[Intangelon]

You guys liketo make fun, fine. Next time there is a disaster in your area, pay attention to who shows up and helps.

Fair enough. Next time there is a gay marriage initiative on the ballot in your state, pay attention to who drops millions in hidden in-kind contributions to oppose something that has no bearing on them, just because.

[Muravyets]

You guys liketo make fun, fine. Next time there is a disaster in your area, pay attention to who shows up and helps.

The National Guard? The Red Cross? Fema? Jehovah's Witnesses?

Just pay attention is all... Because you wont likely see it in the papers, news or other media.

So you are claiming that the LDS now run the Somerville (MA) Fire and Police Departments? Because they'll be the first on the scene in the event of a disaster in my area. And if not them, then the Malden Fire and Police Depts in East Somerville, or the Cambridge Fire and Police in the western parts of Somerville.

EDIT: OMG!!! Maybe you mean you guys took over Cataldo Ambulance Service!!! Did you take over the other half of their business, too -- Cataldo Funeral Home?

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

You guys liketo make fun, fine. Next time there is a disaster in your area, pay attention to who shows up and helps.

Hordes of Mormons? You've taken over FEMA and the Somerville (MA) Fire and Police Departments?

Actually its fairly standard practice to pitch in and organize within the churches to assist whenever something bad happens. When we had the flooding out here in the Midwest last year, we showed up at church only to have the bishop ask that everyone there who could go home, get changed, and help unload supplies that they had coming in, and to help sandbag. Cut the meeting right short, and folks got down to business. Nevermind the usual belief that we need to take part in our communities even in the best of times, and help folks that need help, etc etc. Can't tell you how many times I've been involved in service projects of one sort or another, be it making baby quilts for the local hospitals, to putting together care packages for people abroad (or wherever things have been bad) with basic toiletries and other such items, canned/non-perishable food gathering, clothing donations ... whatever was needed.

That being said, we're not the only ones who do these sorts of things, and quite frankly, 'recognition' isn't why they're done. Nor should it be. So whether or not people are aware of who is helping them doesn't matter to me so much as those people are getting help from someone, somewhere, and if we're able to step up - fantastic.

[Capsule Corporation]

We are not against Homosexuals, just homosexual sex

Uh, denying me any sexual pleasure is being "against" me in a rather profound way.

Haha no Mormon is going to (or rather, should) go up to you and tell you who you can and can't have sex with. We're not the commandment police. All we can tell you is that if you want to feel the spirit's guidance and receive revelation on a daily basis, then there are a few things you can do better with your life. Heck, Mormons aren't even allowed to have -straight- sex outside of marriage.

[Intangelon]

It is no secret that we are against homosexual marriage. We are not against Homosexuals, just homosexual sex, because we belive that sex is ordained specifically between a man and a woman who are legally wed.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD

So don't engage in it, and tell your followers not to engage in it. Where do you get off influencing a state election in a state full of people who don't have to do what you say? Police your own people and leave the rest of them alone. Otherwise, your religion is far from peaceful, it's intrusive and bullying.

[Greed and Death]

The National Guard? The Red Cross? Fema? Jehovah's Witnesses?

Just pay attention is all... Because you wont likely see it in the papers, news or other media.

So you are claiming that the LDS now run the Somerville (MA) Fire and Police Departments? Because they'll be the first on the scene in the event of a disaster in my area. And if not them, then the Malden Fire and Police Depts in East Somerville, or the Cambridge Fire and Police in the western parts of Somerville.

He does have a point. The Mormons and lots of other churches send help to natural disasters.
And if New Orleans and Katrina is a benchmark, they may get there before FEMA does.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

You guys liketo make fun, fine. Next time there is a disaster in your area, pay attention to who shows up and helps.

Fair enough. Next time there is a gay marriage initiative on the ballot in your state, pay attention to who drops millions in hidden in-kind contributions to oppose something that has no bearing on them, just because.

Our Bishops like any other clergy, are licensed to perform marriages. The reason *I* opposed the bill was the fear that we would be FORCED to perform gay marriages. The Church has NO contributions to the bill. The members, well, we can contribute to whatever we want. Plus, you don't mention that the most vocal supporters of the bill were Non-LDS blacks. So now Blacks are evil, hate mongering bigots as well?

[KiloMikeAlpha]

It is no secret that we are against homosexual marriage. We are not against Homosexuals, just homosexual sex, because we belive that sex is ordained specifically between a man and a woman who are legally wed.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?l ... 82620aRCRD

So don't engage in it, and tell your followers not to engage in it. Where do you get off influencing a state election in a state full of people who don't have to do what you say? Police your own people and leave the rest of them alone. Otherwise, your religion is far from peaceful, it's intrusive and bullying.

Umm we have MILLIONS of members in California. They are citizens. Citizens should vote thier beliefs. I wont apologize for that.

[Phenia]

You guys liketo make fun, fine. Next time there is a disaster in your area, pay attention to who shows up and helps.

Fair enough. Next time there is a gay marriage initiative on the ballot in your state, pay attention to who drops millions in hidden in-kind contributions to oppose something that has no bearing on them, just because.

Our Bishops like any other clergy, are licensed to perform marriages. The reason *I* opposed the bill was the fear that we would be FORCED to perform gay marriages. The Church has NO contributions to the bill. The members, well, we can contribute to whatever we want. Plus, you don't mention that the most vocal supporters of the bill were Non-LDS blacks. So now Blacks are evil, hate mongering bigots as well?

"Blacks" are not an organization like the LDS. Nice try.

[Greed and Death]

Can we not turn this into a prop 8 discussion. Those have been done to death already.