Abortion: A Father's Right to Choose

[Ravea]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

What a terrible argument.

Nobody, despite what you think, WANTS to have an abortion. It's not an easy choice for anybody. Even if it was illegal, anyone determined to get a pregnancy terminated would still get one. Anyways, for every mother who has an abortion, there are many more who bring children to term. I don't think there is going to be an Abortion or Homosexuality fad anytime soon that results in our deaths.

Things like this are not black and white, and nothing should be looked as in extremes. Abortion and homosexuality aren't "good" or "bad." They just, like everything else in life, are.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

"A Republican lawmaker in Ohio, U.S.A has re-introduced a bill that would give a man the final choice on whether the woman he got pregnant could have an abortion.

Dubbed the “father’s right bill,” it would give the man the right to stand up and say he doesn’t want the fetus he contributed DNA to to be aborted. But it says nothing about then forcing him to be a good father or provide financial stability.

So yeah, way to go Ohio, if this bill makes it through to law, you won’t just be pulling a woman’s right to choose what happens to her own body (be it having to go through pregnancy or not), but you’ll be sticking a mother with everything that comes with pregnancy and putting none of it on the guy. Woohoo - score another one for progress.

OK, sarcasm done with.

I’m sure this will be met with a fair amount of “Oh, but now she can give the child up for adoption, so why should the guy be held responsible?”

Because that’s not actually what’s behind the bill (again, a bill, not a law). Its sponsor, Rep. John Adams (who has reintroduced a bill first put forth in 2007), has stated publicly that this is an attempt to “keep the two people who have created that child together.” In other words - he’s trying to force a family unit out of pregnancy rather than the other way around. He’s not aiming for adoption, he’s aiming for one big happy.

And realistically, that isn’t the way the world works. If it did - how do we account for all of the divorced parents out there? According to most studies, children don’t keep people together (the most oft-repeated stat figures half of all of America’s children will see their parents divorce at least once).

Throw in the fact that Adams’ plan would prohibit an abortion in cases where mothers don’t know the identity of the father (and bringing forth a fake would carry jail time), and I’m still trying to see how this could possibly be anything but punishment for the women involved. There’s a clear message here of “you made your bed, now lie in it.” But it’s focused solely on the woman, who has a federally protected right to make a brand new bed, and again lets men off scot free.

This isn’t about babies or foetuses, folks. It’s about a return to the patriarchal order where men are handed the right to dictate the way a woman can live her life, and she’s stuck with it." http://www.babble.com.au/2009/07/21/new ... -abortion/

Obviously, Pro-choicers will not agree with this. But even if you are pro-life - what the hell? Seriously? No. Really. Seriously?

If the risks of the procedure were minimal for the mother, I would support a law requiring the transplanting of a fetus from the mother to the father if the mother didn't want to carry to term and the father did.

Other than that, while I think the father should be able to voice his opinion, it's not his body so it's not his decision.

[Desperate Measures]

It absolutely affects me. I am a father of 2 teenage girls. I am affected by them killing my posterity just as all of those in humanity are affected by the loss of that potential.

You say not everyone is going to get an abortion. Right. So it is OK if it is limited? If EVERYONE got one, it would be bad, right? So now we are talking about limits, and not the right to choose.

Balls in your court.

Maybe if we were playing the same sport, you could get the ball into my court.

[Meldaria]

IIII SAAAIIIDD!!! MEN SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY SIGN THIS PIECE OF PAPER SAYING I HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS CHILD WHATSOEVER OR GET AN ABORTION!!!! NOW SOMEONE GET MAD AT ME!!!!!

[KiloMikeAlpha]

You say that not everyone is gay, and not everyone will have an abortion. That is correct.

HOWEVER, we are talking numbers here then.

Is 9.999:10 of pregnancies aborted OK?
How about 8:10? 3:10? 1.467:10?

If abortion is OK as long as not everyone does it, what is the limit?

[Vectrova]

You say that not everyone is gay, and not everyone will have an abortion. That is correct.

HOWEVER, we are talking numbers here then.

Is 9.999:10 of pregnancies aborted OK?
How about 8:10? 3:10? 1.467:10?

If abortion is OK as long as not everyone does it, what is the limit?

Just because there is no limit doesn't mean everyone will do it. The choice is the key thing here.

[Desperate Measures]

You say that not everyone is gay, and not everyone will have an abortion. That is correct.

HOWEVER, we are talking numbers here then.

Is 9.999:10 of pregnancies aborted OK?
How about 8:10? 3:10? 1.467:10?

If abortion is OK as long as not everyone does it, what is the limit?

No limit. And yes. That does mean that if everyone decided that life just wasn't worth continuing than everyone is free to make that choice. Then we're all dead. Forever.

[The Scandinvans]

But no, the father should have to pay for child support even if the woman gets the right to terminate her parasite. Why? Probably because child support claims require proof that the father is being negligent and/or otherwise not caring about the child's welfare. It is completely irrelevant to the woman's right to terminate her parasite if she so desires.

Though I generally avoid abortion debates I genuinely do get angry when people call fetuses parasites. As then it makes me rape logic by making this argument.

If people have been on welfare for a long period of time do they not become parasites on society? And when society gets tired of them can't those on welfare be exterminated like any other parasite?

Though I do not agree with any of what I said, I simply am attempting to make your mind hurt by causing a great deal of harm to the parasites.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

IIII SAAAIIIDD!!! MEN SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY SIGN THIS PIECE OF PAPER SAYING I HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS CHILD WHATSOEVER OR GET AN ABORTION!!!! NOW SOMEONE GET MAD AT ME!!!!!

*hands you a puppy*

[Phenia]

I am saying there is a trend for people to not want to take responsibility for thier own actions.

That's not what you said. Hmm, are you demonstrating that you do not want to take responsibility for your own statements?

I want to have casual, unprotected sex. The consequence? Pregnancy. Well, I'll just have an abortion.

This is nonsense. Abortion is not some casual decision made by sluts who want to have sex. You are peddling a myth that shows more about how much (little) you know than anything to do with reality.

I want to spend and spend and spend. The consequence? Debt. Well, I'll jsut get a bailout.

This is also nonsense, and irrelevant.

I want to put my hand on this hot stove. the consequence? You get burned. Well, I'll sue the stove maker.

Yeah, because that happens too. OH WAIT.

It is time to grow up, take responsibility for your actions. Stop justifying murder of little babies. Wrong is wrong no matter what society says.

Drivel. Get a clue please, or at least an argument.

[Desperate Measures]

IIII SAAAIIIDD!!! MEN SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY SIGN THIS PIECE OF PAPER SAYING I HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS CHILD WHATSOEVER OR GET AN ABORTION!!!! NOW SOMEONE GET MAD AT ME!!!!!

I can't really see much of an argument against it but maybe somebody will change my mind and then I'll get very, very angry with you.

[NERVUN]

I call it a parasite because, by definition, that's what it is.

Not really. A parasite is one species living off of another.

While children sometimes SEEM to be from off planet, we have to admit that they are indeed humans.

[Meldaria]

IIII SAAAIIIDD!!! MEN SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY SIGN THIS PIECE OF PAPER SAYING I HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS CHILD WHATSOEVER OR GET AN ABORTION!!!! NOW SOMEONE GET MAD AT ME!!!!!

*hands you a puppy*

*pets puppy* awww dogggyy!!!

[Vectrova]

But no, the father should have to pay for child support even if the woman gets the right to terminate her parasite. Why? Probably because child support claims require proof that the father is being negligent and/or otherwise not caring about the child's welfare. It is completely irrelevant to the woman's right to terminate her parasite if she so desires.

[/quote]Though I generally avoid abortion debates I genuinely do get angry when people call fetuses parasites. As then it makes me rape logic by making this argument.

If people have been on welfare for a long period of time do they not become parasites on society? And when society gets tired of them can't those on welfare be exterminated like any other parasite?

Though I do not agree with any of what I said, I simply am attempting to make your mind hurt by causing a great deal of harm to the parasites.[/quote]

I already addressed that argument. See also: here.

More specifically:

I call it a parasite because, by definition, that's what it is. You, on the other hand, cannot, as government assistance isn't the same thing. My sympathies for you thinking welfare exploitation actually exists. Do please feel free to research the Welfare Reform Act, I'm sure you'd learn a lot.

Edit:

I call it a parasite because, by definition, that's what it is.

Not really. A parasite is one species living off of another.

While children sometimes SEEM to be from off planet, we have to admit that they are indeed humans.

A child, yes.

The problem is that a fetus isn't a child. It is parasitic, subsisting off of the mother until nine months pass.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

I am saying there is a trend for people to not want to take responsibility for thier own actions.

That's not what you said. Hmm, are you demonstrating that you do not want to take responsibility for your own statements?

I want to have casual, unprotected sex. The consequence? Pregnancy. Well, I'll just have an abortion.

This is nonsense. Abortion is not some casual decision made by sluts who want to have sex. You are peddling a myth that shows more about how much (little) you know than anything to do with reality.

I want to spend and spend and spend. The consequence? Debt. Well, I'll jsut get a bailout.

This is also nonsense, and irrelevant.

I want to put my hand on this hot stove. the consequence? You get burned. Well, I'll sue the stove maker.

Yeah, because that happens too. OH WAIT.

It is time to grow up, take responsibility for your actions. Stop justifying murder of little babies. Wrong is wrong no matter what society says.

Drivel. Get a clue please, or at least an argument.

OK, then educate me. Why then do womyn have abortions?

[Kalysk]

Sigh.. Stupid threadjack is stupid. Anyways, It should be up to the mother if she wants an abortion or not. If this goes through, it will be the equivalent of the mother telling the father to get a vasectomy. As a man, I could never understand the pain of either an abortion or going through with it, so men don't have the understanding to make this decision.

[Phenia]

OK, then educate me. Why then do womyn have abortions?

For a variety of reasons. Since it's you who are claiming grossly retarded "reasons" like "I want to have casual unprotected sex" that women allegedly have abortions over, the burden of proof is on you to support that claim.

Ball's in your court, kiddo.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

I call it a parasite because, by definition, that's what it is.

Not really. A parasite is one species living off of another.

While children sometimes SEEM to be from off planet, we have to admit that they are indeed humans.

I would not call them parasites either, I would call them symbiots. Two beings benefiting mutually from each other.

I would also argue that the ones who have the loudest voice in the PRO-murder (sorry, pro-choice) realms are either,

1. Not BREEDERS, so whats the point anyways
2. Have NEVER been pregnant past the 2nd trimester
3. Are too busy wrapped up in thier narssisitical lives to give one hoot about any body else.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

OK, then educate me. Why then do womyn have abortions?

Because they don't want to be pregnant anymore. That and the fact that the medical risks of an abortion are considerably lower than the medical risks of giving birth until near the end of the second trimester are all the reason a woman needs. Much the same way that blood donation isn't mandatory or organ donation isn't mandatory, a woman can't be forced to undergo a pregnancy simply because it might involve another human life.

[The Scandinvans]

A child, yes.

The problem is that a fetus isn't a child. It is parasitic, subsisting off of the mother until nine months pass.

*Pulls on science pants.*

Are you a science nerd?

[SaintB]

It absolutely affects me. I am a father of 2 teenage girls. I am affected by them killing my posterity just as all of those in humanity are affected by the loss of that potential.

In that case you can voice your opinion to your pregnant teenage slut all you want. But you can't change her decision.

You say not everyone is going to get an abortion. Right. So it is OK if it is limited? If EVERYONE got one, it would be bad, right? So now we are talking about limits, and not the right to choose.

Balls in your court.

We are talking about the right to choose and not about limits. Most women go forward with their pregnancies, most women will continue to go on, and even if someone gets an abortion now they will very likely willingly have a child later on. Poking your nose into someone else's business unless it involves you is uncalled for, and wrong.

[Vectrova]

A child, yes.

The problem is that a fetus isn't a child. It is parasitic, subsisting off of the mother until nine months pass.

*Pulls on science pants.*

Are you a science nerd?

Depends on whether or not you're into that sort of thing.

[Desperate Measures]

I call it a parasite because, by definition, that's what it is.

Not really. A parasite is one species living off of another.

While children sometimes SEEM to be from off planet, we have to admit that they are indeed humans.

I would not call them parasites either, I would call them symbiots. Two beings benefiting mutually from each other.

I would also argue that the ones who have the loudest voice in the PRO-murder (sorry, pro-choice) realms are either,

1. Not BREEDERS, so whats the point anyways
2. Have NEVER been pregnant past the 2nd trimester
3. Are too busy wrapped up in thier narssisitical lives to give one hoot about any body else.

I have a 1 year old. I'm a proud father.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

OK, then educate me. Why then do womyn have abortions?

For a variety of reasons. Since it's you who are claiming grossly retarded "reasons" like "I want to have casual unprotected sex" that women allegedly have abortions over, the burden of proof is on you to support that claim.

Ball's in your court, kiddo.

1. They are business women and kids will ruin thier career.
2. They are afraid of waht it will do to thier bodies. Ever see what breastfeeding does to your boobs?
3. They cant afford it. What is it like 200K to raise a kid to 18. What is it 12.99 to kill it?
4. They are not married and have no idea who the father is, and they dont wanna raise the kid alone. Hello? Adoption?
--->>>> this is where the I want to have causual unprotected sex comes in.
5. They are afraid of the pain?
6. They are radical Neo-Feminists and thier views are so powerful and NO MAN wil lever tell them what to do.

what else?

[Phenia]

1. They are business women and kids will ruin thier career.
2. They are afraid of waht it will do to thier bodies. Ever see what breastfeeding does to your boobs?
3. They cant afford it. What is it like 200K to raise a kid to 18. What is it 12.99 to kill it?
4. They are not married and have no idea who the father is, and they dont wanna raise the kid alone. Hello? Adoption?
5. They are afraid of the pain?
6. They are radical Neo-Feminists and thier views are so powerful and NO MAN wil lever tell them what to do.

what else?

These are not support for your claims, they are just more claims. It is your job to show that what you claimed are reasons women have abortions - "I want to have casual unprotected sex" - ARE reasons that actual women HAVE abortions.

You haven't done that. Evidently you can't.

Your argument is fail. I look forward to seeing more fail over the next five hundred posts.