Abortion: A Father's Right to Choose

[NERVUN]

What about the baby?

This debate revolves around when does life begin?

Is abortion murder? Plan and simple.

If one murders a pregnant woman and the baby dies, is that 2 murders? If so, why isnt the abortion 1 murder?

To all of you who are for abortion... I say this.... THANK GOD YOUR MOTHER WASNT!

Close your legs, take responsibility for your actions and STOP KILLING OUR KIDS.

It seems kinda funny to me, "kill the children, save the rainforests".

Yeah. Great. I see you got some beliefs there.

How about you explain how the choice should be left to the father and not the mother?

There are 3 parties involved: The Mother, The Father and the baby. If the mother wants the abortion and the ather does not, then unless there has been rape, incest, etc, the mother goes through with the pregnancy and gives child to Father.

If the Father wants the abortion and the mother does not, the Mother has it, and the Father has no rights, nor is he responsible financially.

If the baby wants to live, but the Father and/or Mother wants to kill it, too bad for the baby.

My head hurts from reading your argument. Please stop doing such mean things to logic. What did it ever do to you?

[Desperate Measures]

If the mother wants the abortion and the ather does not, then unless there has been rape, incest, etc, the mother goes through with the pregnancy and gives child to Father.

You say "go through a pregnancy" as if it is "go to the movies".

"What are you doing this weekend?"
"Oh, this guy is making me go through a pregnancy."
"Well, what are you doing next weekend?"

[SaintB]

Absolutely friggin' not. The mother is the ultimate authority as she has the parasite growing inside of her. The man has no place whatsoever to decide what's done to it until after the parasite has plopped out.

So he basically has no rights whatsoever? Frankly, if a woman wants to carry a child to term over the protests of the father, I think the father shouldn't have to pay child support...it's only fair given the woman's right to kill it off before it's born without input. She shouldn't be permitted not only to terminate her pregnancy without input but to also ensure the father is forced to pay for the child if she decides that she wants to keep him or her.

I agree the father should have a choice to Opt out. I know of many cases where they have. I personally think its lame, and I also personally think that both parents should discuss very much at length the abortion.

[NERVUN]

If the mother wants the abortion and the ather does not, then unless there has been rape, incest, etc, the mother goes through with the pregnancy and gives child to Father.

You say "go through a pregnancy" as if it is "go to the movies".

Sure it is. Haven't you ever heard of a drive-in pregnancy?

[Vectrova]

Absolutely friggin' not. The mother is the ultimate authority as she has the parasite growing inside of her. The man has no place whatsoever to decide what's done to it until after the parasite has plopped out.

So he basically has no rights whatsoever? Frankly, if a woman wants to carry a child to term over the protests of the father, I think the father shouldn't have to pay child support...it's only fair given the woman's right to kill it off before it's born without input. She shouldn't be permitted not only to terminate her pregnancy without input but to also ensure the father is forced to pay for the child if she decides that she wants to keep him or her.

The father can't pay for what doesn't yet exist. Child support is only what the other parent pays for when the child isn't subsisting off of the mother.

More to the point, the father shouldn't have a right to override the mother's choice to terminate the parasite. I didn't say (or mean to say, rather) he had no rights whatsoever though, so please don't say I did.

But no, the father should have to pay for child support even if the woman gets the right to terminate her parasite. Why? Probably because child support claims require proof that the father is being negligent and/or otherwise not caring about the child's welfare. It is completely irrelevant to the woman's right to terminate her parasite if she so desires.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

To all of you who are for abortion... I say this.... THANK GOD YOUR MOTHER WASNT!

My mother supports the right to choose, thank you very much.

Close your legs

Why does someone always have to trot this out? You're basically saying you think women who get abortions are stupid sluts. It's infantile and misogynistic.

take responsibility for your actions and STOP KILLING OUR KIDS.

Your kids? Your kids? Sorry, you have kids? Who killed them? Or do you just routinely claim possession of children if they happen to exist in the same country.

I am saying there is a trend for people to not want to take responsibility for thier own actions.

I want to have casual, unprotected sex. The consequence? Pregnancy. Well, I'll just have an abortion.
I want to spend and spend and spend. The consequence? Debt. Well, I'll jsut get a bailout.
I want to put my hand on this hot stove. the consequence? You get burned. Well, I'll sue the stove maker.

It is time to grow up, take responsibility for your actions. Stop justifying murder of little babies. Wrong is wrong no matter what society says.

[Desperate Measures]

If the mother wants the abortion and the ather does not, then unless there has been rape, incest, etc, the mother goes through with the pregnancy and gives child to Father.

You say "go through a pregnancy" as if it is "go to the movies".

Sure it is. Haven't you ever heard of a drive-in pregnancy?

I thought that was only in Vegas?

[SaintB]

More to the point, the father shouldn't have a right to override the mother's choice to terminate the parasite. I didn't say (or mean to say, rather) he had no rights whatsoever though, so please don't say I did.

He shouldn't have the right to.

But no, the father should have to pay for child support even if the woman gets the right to terminate her parasite. Why? Probably because child support claims require proof that the father is being negligent and/or otherwise not caring about the child's welfare. It is completely irrelevant to the woman's right to terminate her parasite if she so desires.

This argument is a biased against men as saying you can't get an abortion is against women. In this world a single mother is perfectly capable of taking care of their own child they brought into the world, if a mother can choose to abort the child the father should be able to choose not to be a parent.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Absolutely friggin' not. The mother is the ultimate authority as she has the parasite growing inside of her. The man has no place whatsoever to decide what's done to it until after the parasite has plopped out.

So he basically has no rights whatsoever? Frankly, if a woman wants to carry a child to term over the protests of the father, I think the father shouldn't have to pay child support...it's only fair given the woman's right to kill it off before it's born without input. She shouldn't be permitted not only to terminate her pregnancy without input but to also ensure the father is forced to pay for the child if she decides that she wants to keep him or her.

The father can't pay for what doesn't yet exist. Child support is only what the other parent pays for when the child isn't subsisting off of the mother.

More to the point, the father shouldn't have a right to override the mother's choice to terminate the parasite. I didn't say (or mean to say, rather) he had no rights whatsoever though, so please don't say I did.

But no, the father should have to pay for child support even if the woman gets the right to terminate her parasite. Why? Probably because child support claims require proof that the father is being negligent and/or otherwise not caring about the child's welfare. It is completely irrelevant to the woman's right to terminate her parasite if she so desires.

Why do you leftists always call a fetus a "parasite"? If you are referring to the fact that it attachs itself to the mother, and feeds off her, growing until it can sustain life....

Then I can call all of the people on any kind of government assistance a parasite on me. And if you have the right to terminate YOUR parasite, then I ABSOLUTELY have the right to terminate my parasites....

Are you REALLY sure you want to go there?

[Vectrova]

To all of you who are for abortion... I say this.... THANK GOD YOUR MOTHER WASNT!

My mother supports the right to choose, thank you very much.

Close your legs

Why does someone always have to trot this out? You're basically saying you think women who get abortions are stupid sluts. It's infantile and misogynistic.

take responsibility for your actions and STOP KILLING OUR KIDS.

Your kids? Your kids? Sorry, you have kids? Who killed them? Or do you just routinely claim possession of children if they happen to exist in the same country.

I am saying there is a trend for people to not want to take responsibility for thier own actions.

I want to have casual, unprotected sex. The consequence? Pregnancy. Well, I'll just have an abortion.
I want to spend and spend and spend. The consequence? Debt. Well, I'll jsut get a bailout.
I want to put my hand on this hot stove. the consequence? You get burned. Well, I'll sue the stove maker.

It is time to grow up, take responsibility for your actions. Stop justifying murder of little babies. Wrong is wrong no matter what society says.

1. A fetus is not a child, nor even sentient until quite some time. Please stop trying this Appeal To Emotion garbage.

2. Rape. Just... Rape.

3. It's a fundamental civil right to allow a woman to terminate her parasite. It has nothing to do with responsibility. Women don't do a cango line through an abortion clinic while chanting death metal and praising Satan himself. It's an incredibly traumatic experience that has nothing to do with 'growing up'. Your 'casual, unprotected sex' comment also reeks of ignorance, what with sexual education being very poor in America by and large.

Edit:

Why do you leftists always call a fetus a "parasite"? If you are referring to the fact that it attachs itself to the mother, and feeds off her, growing until it can sustain life....

Then I can call all of the people on any kind of government assistance a parasite on me. And if you have the right to terminate YOUR parasite, then I ABSOLUTELY have the right to terminate my parasites....

Are you REALLY sure you want to go there?

I call it a parasite because, by definition, that's what it is. You, on the other hand, cannot, as government assistance isn't the same thing. My sympathies for you thinking welfare exploitation actually exists. Do please feel free to research the Welfare Reform Act, I'm sure you'd learn a lot.

In summary, Our Parasites Are Different. Mine are based off of a definition, yours are based off of myth and lies generated by the GOP.

[Desperate Measures]

To all of you who are for abortion... I say this.... THANK GOD YOUR MOTHER WASNT!

My mother supports the right to choose, thank you very much.

Close your legs

Why does someone always have to trot this out? You're basically saying you think women who get abortions are stupid sluts. It's infantile and misogynistic.

take responsibility for your actions and STOP KILLING OUR KIDS.

Your kids? Your kids? Sorry, you have kids? Who killed them? Or do you just routinely claim possession of children if they happen to exist in the same country.

I am saying there is a trend for people to not want to take responsibility for thier own actions.

I want to have casual, unprotected sex. The consequence? Pregnancy. Well, I'll just have an abortion.
I want to spend and spend and spend. The consequence? Debt. Well, I'll jsut get a bailout.
I want to put my hand on this hot stove. the consequence? You get burned. Well, I'll sue the stove maker.

It is time to grow up, take responsibility for your actions. Stop justifying murder of little babies. Wrong is wrong no matter what society says.

You can make a thread about whether abortion is "killing little babies". In America, choice is legal. Why should the father have final say in that choice?

[Desperate Measures]

So he basically has no rights whatsoever? Frankly, if a woman wants to carry a child to term over the protests of the father, I think the father shouldn't have to pay child support...it's only fair given the woman's right to kill it off before it's born without input. She shouldn't be permitted not only to terminate her pregnancy without input but to also ensure the father is forced to pay for the child if she decides that she wants to keep him or her.

The father can't pay for what doesn't yet exist. Child support is only what the other parent pays for when the child isn't subsisting off of the mother.

More to the point, the father shouldn't have a right to override the mother's choice to terminate the parasite. I didn't say (or mean to say, rather) he had no rights whatsoever though, so please don't say I did.

But no, the father should have to pay for child support even if the woman gets the right to terminate her parasite. Why? Probably because child support claims require proof that the father is being negligent and/or otherwise not caring about the child's welfare. It is completely irrelevant to the woman's right to terminate her parasite if she so desires.

Why do you leftists always call a fetus a "parasite"? If you are referring to the fact that it attachs itself to the mother, and feeds off her, growing until it can sustain life....

Then I can call all of the people on any kind of government assistance a parasite on me. And if you have the right to terminate YOUR parasite, then I ABSOLUTELY have the right to terminate my parasites....

Are you REALLY sure you want to go there?

Actually, I'd love to read through that thread. Just not in this thread.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

[SaintB]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

Dude, you are sick.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

Dude, you are sick.

How so? Does my logic fail in some way?

If abortion is OK and GOOD, then it should be OK for anyone and everyone to do it. If everyone did it, we would no longer exists.

If, however, abortion is NOT OK, and BAD, it should be banned.

[Desperate Measures]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

Does this apply to masturbation? Does it apply to spending ALL of one's time on the internet?

[Vectrova]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

Wow.

Please make a new thread for this, as you're going to cause a massive threadjack otherwise.

And despite being fundamentally opposed to everything you just posted, I wish you luck in defending that argument. You'll need it.

[Desperate Measures]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

Wow.

Please make a new thread for this, as you're going to cause a massive threadjack otherwise.

And despite being fundamentally opposed to everything you just posted, I wish you luck in defending that argument. You'll need it.

How many separate topics has he started in this one?

[SaintB]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

Dude, you are sick.

How so? Does my logic fail in some way?

If abortion is OK and GOOD, then it should be OK for anyone and everyone to do it. If everyone did it, we would no longer exists.

If, however, abortion is NOT OK, and BAD, it should be banned.

Its not logic, its a fallacy.

Not everyone is going to get an abortion, not everyone is going to be homosexual. If you truly believe that you should seek counseling or lock yourself away from reality.

Its not a choice that effects you in any way is it?

[KiloMikeAlpha]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

Does this apply to masturbation? Does it apply to spending ALL of one's time on the internet?

Sure it applies to masturbation. However, if everyone mastubated, it does not imply a substitute for sex. if EVERYONE masturbated INSTEAD of procreating, then yes, it would be wrong.

And the second argument (spending all time on internet) is impossible, so it is irrelevant.

[Desperate Measures]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

Does this apply to masturbation? Does it apply to spending ALL of one's time on the internet?

Sure it applies to masturbation. However, if everyone mastubated, it does not imply a substitute for sex. if EVERYONE masturbated INSTEAD of procreating, then yes, it would be wrong.

And the second argument (spending all time on internet) is impossible, so it is irrelevant.

SO IS EVERYONE BEING GAY. SO IS EVERYONE TERMINATING EVERY PREGNANCY.

[Vectrova]

To argue this point, one must only look at the extreme.

Abortion is wrong because if EVERYONE did it, we would become extinct. A law should take that simple concept into consideration.

The same argument applies to homosexuality.

Wow.

Please make a new thread for this, as you're going to cause a massive threadjack otherwise.

And despite being fundamentally opposed to everything you just posted, I wish you luck in defending that argument. You'll need it.

How many separate topics has he started in this one?

At least four different topics (right to abortion, homosexuality, the one we're in here about the father's choice, and child support). It's almost painful to see them all together like this.

[Meldaria]

"A Republican lawmaker in Ohio, U.S.A has re-introduced a bill that would give a man the final choice on whether the woman he got pregnant could have an abortion.

Dubbed the “father’s right bill,” it would give the man the right to stand up and say he doesn’t want the fetus he contributed DNA to to be aborted. But it says nothing about then forcing him to be a good father or provide financial stability.

So yeah, way to go Ohio, if this bill makes it through to law, you won’t just be pulling a woman’s right to choose what happens to her own body (be it having to go through pregnancy or not), but you’ll be sticking a mother with everything that comes with pregnancy and putting none of it on the guy. Woohoo - score another one for progress.

OK, sarcasm done with.

I’m sure this will be met with a fair amount of “Oh, but now she can give the child up for adoption, so why should the guy be held responsible?”

Because that’s not actually what’s behind the bill (again, a bill, not a law). Its sponsor, Rep. John Adams (who has reintroduced a bill first put forth in 2007), has stated publicly that this is an attempt to “keep the two people who have created that child together.” In other words - he’s trying to force a family unit out of pregnancy rather than the other way around. He’s not aiming for adoption, he’s aiming for one big happy.

And realistically, that isn’t the way the world works. If it did - how do we account for all of the divorced parents out there? According to most studies, children don’t keep people together (the most oft-repeated stat figures half of all of America’s children will see their parents divorce at least once).

Throw in the fact that Adams’ plan would prohibit an abortion in cases where mothers don’t know the identity of the father (and bringing forth a fake would carry jail time), and I’m still trying to see how this could possibly be anything but punishment for the women involved. There’s a clear message here of “you made your bed, now lie in it.” But it’s focused solely on the woman, who has a federally protected right to make a brand new bed, and again lets men off scot free.

This isn’t about babies or foetuses, folks. It’s about a return to the patriarchal order where men are handed the right to dictate the way a woman can live her life, and she’s stuck with it." http://www.babble.com.au/2009/07/21/new ... -abortion/

Obviously, Pro-choicers will not agree with this. But even if you are pro-life - what the hell? Seriously? No. Really. Seriously?

I think that men should have to right to say, Either sign this saying I have no responsibility for this child whatsoever or get an abortion, but he shouldn't have the right to tell her to not get one.

[Desperate Measures]

Wow.

Please make a new thread for this, as you're going to cause a massive threadjack otherwise.

And despite being fundamentally opposed to everything you just posted, I wish you luck in defending that argument. You'll need it.

How many separate topics has he started in this one?

At least four different topics (right to abortion, homosexuality, the one we're in here about the father's choice, and child support). It's almost painful to see them all together like this.

It is painful. My thread has turned painful.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Its not logic, its a fallacy.

Not everyone is going to get an abortion, not everyone is going to be homosexual. If you truly believe that you should seek counseling or lock yourself away from reality.

Its not a choice that effects you in any way is it?[/quote]

It absolutely affects me. I am a father of 2 teenage girls. I am affected by them killing my posterity just as all of those in humanity are affected by the loss of that potential.

You say not everyone is going to get an abortion. Right. So it is OK if it is limited? If EVERYONE got one, it would be bad, right? So now we are talking about limits, and not the right to choose.

Balls in your court.