Gay and Christian

[Georgism]

Because women who try to rule over men are...you know the word.

Empowered? Intelligent? Strong? Influential? Leaders? No, I don't know the word.

[Ceannairceach]

Your under the misconception that if a woman isn't completely submitted to her "loving" husband that they must be a bitch.

Read, the verse. This verse says that a woman cannot teach a man, or RULE OVER a man, but she should prefer to be SILENT. Why? Because women who try to rule over men are...you know the word.

Source on that. Prove that women are a bitch if they rule over men. Considering some of my favorite teachers, the best boss I've ever had, my mother, etc. have all 'ruled over me', I think its fair to say not all women are bitches. Well, my mother a little bit...

[New Kereptica]

Read, the verse. This verse says that a woman cannot teach a man, or RULE OVER a man, but she should prefer to be SILENT. Why? Because women who try to rule over men are...you know the word.

Does the same hold for men who try to rule over women?

[Buffett and Colbert]

Because women who try to rule over men are...you know the word.

Empowered? Intelligent? Strong? Influential? Leaders? No, I don't know the word.

Bitch? A word Gaga already used? I wonder why he's drawing back from the us of it...

It's pretty stupid, considering Hilary Clinton, Golda Meir, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, Angela Merkel, et al are bitches by pure virtue of them ruling over men.

[Johz]

Your under the misconception that if a woman isn't completely submitted to her "loving" husband that they must be a bitch.

Read, the verse. This verse says that a woman cannot teach a man, or RULE OVER a man, but she should prefer to be SILENT. Why? Because women who try to rule over men are...you know the word.

Or it's because any church which allows women to teach to men is weird and soon becomes the laughing stock of the more civilised first century churches, which obviously kept men and women seperate to avoid... well... you know. To avoid losing face. Paul should be credited with some measure of astuteness. Is that a word?

[Gagatron]

Read, the verse. This verse says that a woman cannot teach a man, or RULE OVER a man, but she should prefer to be SILENT. Why? Because women who try to rule over men are...you know the word.

Source on that. Prove that women are a bitch if they rule over men. Considering some of my favorite teachers, the best boss I've ever had, my mother, etc. have all 'ruled over me', I think its fair to say not all women are bitches. Well, my mother a little bit...

This passage specifically talks about the controlling women, not the mothers etc. But the women who try to control men.

[Georgism]

Bitch? A word Gaga already used?

I got that

It's pretty stupid, considering Hilary Clinton, Golda Meir, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, Angela Merkel, et al are bitches by pure virtue of them ruling over men.

Not to mention teachers, bosses, hell even priests all over the world.

[New Kereptica]

This passage specifically talks about the controlling women, not the mothers etc. But the women who try to control men.

Again, does the same hold for men who try to control women?

[Gagatron]

This passage specifically talks about the controlling women, not the mothers etc. But the women who try to control men.

Again, does the same hold for men who try to control women?

Nobody's supposed to control anybody.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Bitch? A word Gaga already used?

I got that

I know. I'm highlighting Gaga's purposeful modesty/hypocrisy.

It's pretty stupid, considering Hilary Clinton, Golda Meir, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, Angela Merkel, et al are bitches by pure virtue of them ruling over men.

Not to mention teachers, bosses, hell even priests all over the world.

All bitches, I say.

[Georgism]

Nobody's supposed to control anybody.

So why is one sex clearly placed beneath the other?

[Buffett and Colbert]

Again, does the same hold for men who try to control women?

Nobody's supposed to control anybody.

Except for men controlling women, apparently.

[New Kereptica]

Nobody's supposed to control anybody.

So Jesus was a complete anarchist and all people in positions of power over others are sinners?

[Angleter]

A question for you all- God knows everything, correct? Everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen? Then didn't he know that Adam and Eve would be tempted into eating the apple? Why purposefully make a sinful species?

That depends. Some believe that God is totally omniscient, but some argue that he in fact knows only all that he chooses to know, and decides not to know certain things in order to preserve free will. That would explain your point about Adam and Eve.

As for those who accept total omniscience, those who refute free will (such as Calvinists) believe that God in fact had Adam and Eve fall into the 'total depravity' that remains among humans today. This obviously for most kyboshes the idea of an omnibenevolent God.

Those who accept both total omniscience and free will believe that God knew what Adam and Eve would do, but let it happen to respect free will.

The argument that this boils down to is one whether it was more benevolent of God to stop evil or to allow free will, or whether God is at all omnibenevolent.

[Ceannairceach]

Source on that. Prove that women are a bitch if they rule over men. Considering some of my favorite teachers, the best boss I've ever had, my mother, etc. have all 'ruled over me', I think its fair to say not all women are bitches. Well, my mother a little bit...

This passage specifically talks about the controlling women, not the mothers etc. But the women who try to control men.

Oh? So they hold no control over me? Genghis help me when I tell them that...

Where does it say in that passage that it only applies to wives? And, where does it say that all women are uptight, pole-in-ass bitches if they "rule" over men?

[Gagatron]

Nobody's supposed to control anybody.

So Jesus was a complete anarchist and all people in positions of power over others are sinners?

It's becoming increasingly difficult to explain. Women who submit to men are not controlled by men, but rather show greater self control.

[Ceannairceach]

Again, does the same hold for men who try to control women?

Nobody's supposed to control anybody.

But men get a exception card for that in the Bible, right?

[Korr-Atel]

I did not post anything in order to change your mind about anything. I post it because i think that, and decided to voice it. My opinions, your opinions. They are just that, Mine and Yours.

And?

If you are blind as to not see that everything has an order, that even the animal kingdom has its own hierarchy depending on the animal, and that even businesses and governments do too,

I do believe in an order. Just not a familial one with predefined roles for women. But thanks for trying.

and even in these the females are left aside under the male, without there being any kindness toward the female from the male, but to god, the one who set up the family and its unique organization, he values the female, wife, mother. Take the example i told you of Abraham and Sarah, god told Abraham "listen to her voice."

Yeah, when she's giving advice about how to tend the house, right? The Bible, like most documents of its time, only depicts women as a subservient figure good for nothing but caring for children and cleaning the house. And God would have let women be a man's equal, if he really valued them.

I must quote once again,

It is faithfulness, not whether a person is male or female that makes one precious to God. Psalm 101:6 says "My eyes are upon the faithful ones of the earth."

And I must point out that what you're quoting is irrelevant since it was not taking women, or other people, into consideration. The Bible is full of discrepancies. Why do you expect it to be all encompassing with a statement like this?

The bible says that a Husband that loves his wife loves himself. This is because a man and his wife "are no longer two, but one flesh" (Mathew 19:6) Meaning they are one body, one equal. There is just an organization to keep things orderly. God doesnt view man different from woman.

Then he should show it.

In Ephesians 5:28,29 it states "In this way, husbands (man) ought to be loving their wives (women) as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. for no man has ever hated his own flesh; but he feeds and cherishes it, as the Christ also does the congregation." Is it so bad that there was established an organization, a hierarchy, so that things would keep in order. and even with this order, the 'heads' are not to abuse of the ones under them.

also note that Colossians 3:19 says, "You husbands, keep on loving your wives and do not be bitterly angry with them."


All this only applies to MARRIAGE and not to men and women in general. Just to the married couple. And even though, the bible says in 1 Peter 2:17 "honor [men] of all sorts..." men here means mankind, in other words, women, boys, girls, elderly and everyone.

You're interpreting these passages as you want them to be interpreted, ignoring the social and historical context behind them. This is perfectly fine and preferable, actually. But this is not what it says.

Well, there is a Godly established order inside the marriage as well as outside it. Let me go at it from another angle but with the same meaning.

when you said, "... The Bible, like most documents of its time, only depicts women as a subservient figure good for nothing but caring for children and cleaning the house. And God would have let women be a man's equal, if he really valued them."

The Bible clearly gives a very high view of women, especially when one looks at their position in the culture of the times. In the ancient world women were considered more property than persons. They were purchased with a dowry, they had to have total obedience to the will of their husbands, and they could not participate in any governmental or political actions. In ancient Palestine a man could divorce a woman by giving her a hand-written note (for an offense as slight as burning the evening meal) and their testimony was not permissible in a court of law.

Jesus, on earth decided to clear up the issue of divorce. In Mathew 19:3-9 states "And the Pharisees came up to him (Jesus), intent on tempting him and saying: 'Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife on every sort of ground?', In reply he (Jesus) said, 'Did you not read that he who created them (God) from [the] beginning made them male and female, and said ''For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh?'' so that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has yoked together let no man pull apart.' They said to him (they the Pharisees him Jesus): 'Why, then, did Moses prescribe giving a certificate of dismissal and divorcing her?' He(Jesus) said to them: 'Moses out of regard of your hardheartedness, made the concession to you of divorcing your wives, but such has not been the case from [the] beginning. I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.'"


Given this history, let's see how God approaches women in the Bible. The first person to see the resurrected Christ was a woman (John 20:15-18). The first European convert was a woman (Acts 16:14). The only followers of Jesus to stand with Him in his crucifixion were women. There were woman in the upper room and anointed with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:14, 2:1-4). Jesus was born to an earthly mother, but not an earthly father(Matt. 1:18,etc.). Only a woman understood Christ's upcoming death (Mark 14:8). These actions show that women played a part as crucial to Christ's ministry as the men.

In Galatians 3:28 the scriptures explicitly state that women hold a position of equal value and importance to men: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus."

When the Messiah was born, He was presented to the prophetess Anna as well as Simeon, again showing the equality of importance in women as well as men.

This scripture does not mean that we ignore all differences and treat everyone as one homogenized lump, though.

God has an order for everything. In Ephesians 5:28,29 it states "In this way, husbands (man) ought to be loving their wives (women) as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. for no man has ever hated his own flesh; but he feeds and cherishes it, as the Christ also does the congregation." From Ephesians 5:21 onward even into the first part of Chapter 6, it is stated the order of this organization. From wife being in subjection to the man, to children being in subjection to the parents.

Because each sex has a different role to play, doesn't make one role more important than the other. The role of the wife is explained in Ephesians 5:22-24 which states that the wife should be in subjection to the husband. Her role is further explained in Titus 2:4,5 ("...to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sound in mind, chaste, workers at home, good, subjecting themselves to their own husbands." A wife that acts this way will gain the lasting respect and love of her family. (Proverbs 31:10,28 respectfully states; "A capable wife who can find? her value is far more than that of corals." "Her sons have risen up and proceeded to pronounce her happy; her owner [rises up] and he praises her." (Also, by 'workers at home' it doesn't mean that wives are to be stuck in all that is housework and never have herself an education or a job, it refers to her job as a mother and wife in the house, she must provide for the household along with the husband in aspects such as education, spirituality, discipline, food, etc.)

Men are entrusted with leading the family, as heads. Women are entrusted with bearing children and providing them with a Godly and secure home life so they may become Godly adults making an impact on our society. (not to mean that women cant have liberties, such as own jobs and others. They are entrusted with what was stated, but are not limited to only that.) I believe I can successfully argue that the responsibility placed on a mother is one of the most important in the world.

God has divinely given the responsibility of authority for the family and of the marriage relationship to the man. This does not make the man superior, only placed in a different role than the woman. The best example of this I can think of is the tribes of ancient Israel. The Levites were chosen out of the twelve tribes to be the priests and to run the house of God, but this didn't mean they were superior to any of the other tribes. That is just the position in which God placed them.

And even so, God encouraged men to continue to love their wives. Colossians 3:19 says, "You husbands, keep on loving your wives and do not be bitterly angry with them."

Husbands are also encouraged to remember his own mistakes and what he must do to receive forgiveness, which is to forgive those who sinned against him, including his wife. and of course she should also do the same.

1 peter 3:7 says " you husbands continue dwelling in like manner with them according to knowledge, assigning them honor as to a weaker vessel, the feminine one, since you are also heirs with them of the undeserved favor of life..." The female here is referenced as a weaker vessel, not because of the now a days common stereotypical idea of man being stronger than women, but the fact that the husband should provide for the 'weaker vessel' the husband being the stronger, able to provide protection and other things."

take note on what 1 corinthians 7:3-5 says "Let the husband render to [his] wife her due, but let the wife also due likewise to [her] husband. The wife does not exercise authority over her own body, but her husband does; likewise the husband does not exercise authority over his own body, but his wife does. Do not be depriving each other [of it], except by mutual consent for an appointed time, that you may devote time to prayer and come together again, that Satan may not keep tempting you for your lack of self-regulation.

[New Kereptica]

It's becoming increasingly difficult to explain. Women who submit to men are not controlled by men, but rather show greater self control.

And what about men who submit to women?

[Nightkill the Emperor]

So Jesus was a complete anarchist and all people in positions of power over others are sinners?

It's becoming increasingly difficult to explain. Women who submit to men are not controlled by men, but rather show greater self control.

[Georgism]

That depends. Some believe that God is totally omniscient, but some argue that he in fact knows only all that he chooses to know, and decides not to know certain things in order to preserve free will. That would explain your point about Adam and Eve.

As for those who accept total omniscience, those who refute free will (such as Calvinists) believe that God in fact had Adam and Eve fall into the 'total depravity' that remains among humans today. This obviously for most kyboshes the idea of an omnibenevolent God.

Those who accept both total omniscience and free will believe that God knew what Adam and Eve would do, but let it happen to respect free will.

The argument that this boils down to is one whether it was more benevolent of God to stop evil or to allow free will, or whether God is at all omnibenevolent.

At a theology lecture I went to one of the lecturers also said that omniscience could be defined as 'only knowing what it is possible to know'. Meaning God could be ignorant of the future and still be omniscient.

[Gagatron]

It's becoming increasingly difficult to explain. Women who submit to men are not controlled by men, but rather show greater self control.

And what about men who submit to women?

That is usually frowned upon.

[Georgism]

And what about men who submit to women?

That is usually frowned upon.

By whom, and why?

[Buffett and Colbert]

That is usually frowned upon.

By whom, and why?

Because it's not manly, of course!

[Gagatron]

That is usually frowned upon.

By whom, and why?

By God, because men are the appointed leaders of the relationship.