Gay and Christian

[Kushtor]

Some of the things you people say are psycho. I've never heard anybody say "God is evil, the Bible is sexist, Christianity is hateful, etc". Until I came on NSG. I've heard atheists accuse my religion of being stupid, which is a scapegoat argument, but I've never heard these accusations until I came to this site. I think it's the most messed-up, misconceptual, misconstrued, mindless merde I've ever heard.

Animal abuse, child abuse, sexism....all totally acceptable, right?

[Gagatron]

Some of the things you people say are psycho. I've never heard anybody say "God is evil, the Bible is sexist, Christianity is hateful, etc". Until I came on NSG. I've heard atheists accuse my religion of being stupid, which is a scapegoat argument, but I've never heard these accusations until I came to this site. I think it's the most messed-up, misconceptual, misconstrued, mindless merde I've ever heard.

Well, Christianity on a whole has had a rather bad record of doing rather hateful thing for the majority of its existence as a religion. And the Bible also does advocate, through the OT mainly but also to a lesser extent in the NT, dangerous ideals that shouldn't be seen as good things.

Purity. Honesty. Devotion. Family. Loyalty. Bravery. Truth. All of these are from the Bible. And you think they're dangerous?

I have yet to find anything "dangerous" about the laws given to the Hebrews.

[Gagatron]

Some of the things you people say are psycho. I've never heard anybody say "God is evil, the Bible is sexist, Christianity is hateful, etc". Until I came on NSG. I've heard atheists accuse my religion of being stupid, which is a scapegoat argument, but I've never heard these accusations until I came to this site. I think it's the most messed-up, misconceptual, misconstrued, mindless merde I've ever heard.

Animal abuse, child abuse, sexism....all totally acceptable, right?

Because you can TOTALLY prove the Bible supports those. Right.

[Kushtor]

Animal abuse, child abuse, sexism....all totally acceptable, right?

Because you can TOTALLY prove the Bible supports those. Right.

Care to prove me wrong? On each?

[Shia Majority]

Meh, my Book of Mormon says the Gays are evil. I'll go with that.

[Farnhamia]

Animal abuse, child abuse, sexism....all totally acceptable, right?

Because you can TOTALLY prove the Bible supports those. Right.

Define "supports." I could make a case for animal sacrifice being fairly abusive. There's the offer of Jephthah's daughter in Judges 11 as a burnt offering (subsequently weaseled out of, naturally). Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3 seem reasonably sexist to me, all that submission that I believe you now denounce.

[Ceannairceach]

Well, Christianity on a whole has had a rather bad record of doing rather hateful thing for the majority of its existence as a religion. And the Bible also does advocate, through the OT mainly but also to a lesser extent in the NT, dangerous ideals that shouldn't be seen as good things.

Purity. Honesty. Devotion. Family. Loyalty. Bravery. Truth. All of these are from the Bible. And you think they're dangerous?

I have yet to find anything "dangerous" about the laws given to the Hebrews.

Murder. Genocide. Hate. Generally things like that I find dangerous.

[Dakini]

Because you can TOTALLY prove the Bible supports those. Right.

Define "supports." I could make a case for animal sacrifice being fairly abusive. There's the offer of Jephthah's daughter in Judges 11 as a burnt offering (subsequently weaseled out of, naturally). Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3 seem reasonably sexist to me, all that submission that I believe you now denounce.

Oh, there's a lot more sexism, Gagatron won't acknowledge it though.

The SAB notes over 300 separate sexist verses.

[Ceannairceach]

Meh, my Book of Mormon says the Gays are evil. I'll go with that.

Nixon, I hated being a Mormon... Really, no wine and little bread wafer thingy at communion? That's just insane.

[Shia Majority]

Meh, my Book of Mormon says the Gays are evil. I'll go with that.

Nixon, I hated being a Mormon... Really, no wine and little bread wafer thingy at communion? That's just insane.

Water and Bread to renew your Baptismal Covenants with the Almighty. Whats wrong with it?

[Ceannairceach]

Nixon, I hated being a Mormon... Really, no wine and little bread wafer thingy at communion? That's just insane.

Water and Bread to renew your Baptismal Covenants with the Almighty. Whats wrong with it?

Wine and wafer tastes better than stale bread and water.

This said though, Mormons are some of the nicest people you may ever meet in your life, despite that I find there religion false. Truly good people.

[Farnhamia]

Define "supports." I could make a case for animal sacrifice being fairly abusive. There's the offer of Jephthah's daughter in Judges 11 as a burnt offering (subsequently weaseled out of, naturally). Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3 seem reasonably sexist to me, all that submission that I believe you now denounce.

Oh, there's a lot more sexism, Gagatron won't acknowledge it though.

The SAB notes over 300 separate sexist verses.

Oh, I'm sure. Those are just the ones I could think of off-hand.

[Dakini]

Oh, there's a lot more sexism, Gagatron won't acknowledge it though.

The SAB notes over 300 separate sexist verses.

Oh, I'm sure. Those are just the ones I could think of off-hand.

Corinthians is really a doozy.

Cor 1 11:3-11:10
11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
11:8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

[Gagatron]

Define "supports." I could make a case for animal sacrifice being fairly abusive. There's the offer of Jephthah's daughter in Judges 11 as a burnt offering (subsequently weaseled out of, naturally). Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3 seem reasonably sexist to me, all that submission that I believe you now denounce.

Oh, there's a lot more sexism, Gagatron won't acknowledge it though.

The SAB notes over 300 separate sexist verses.

They noticed some in Genesis, but their attempts on Exodus were pathetic. I think it's common sense that when a woman bleeds out of her vagina, the things she bleeds on are unclean.

[United Dependencies]

Oh, there's a lot more sexism, Gagatron won't acknowledge it though.

The SAB notes over 300 separate sexist verses.

They noticed some in Genesis, but their attempts on Exodus were pathetic. I think it's common sense that when a woman bleeds out of her vagina, the things she bleeds on are unclean.

That would be unclean in the Jewish sense, not unclean in the "oh go put that in the washing machine."

[Dakini]

Oh, there's a lot more sexism, Gagatron won't acknowledge it though.

The SAB notes over 300 separate sexist verses.

They noticed some in Genesis, but their attempts on Exodus were pathetic. I think it's common sense that when a woman bleeds out of her vagina, the things she bleeds on are unclean.

Periods aren't so dirty that women have to live outside the village for their entire duration where anyone they touch becomes unclean by proxy.

15:19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.

If that was the case *pokes Gagatron* you might want to take a shower.

[United Dependencies]

If that was the case *pokes Gagatron* you might want to take a shower.

Ahhhh! Stay away from me!

[The Norwegian Blue]

Well, Christianity on a whole has had a rather bad record of doing rather hateful thing for the majority of its existence as a religion. And the Bible also does advocate, through the OT mainly but also to a lesser extent in the NT, dangerous ideals that shouldn't be seen as good things.

Purity. Honesty. Devotion. Family. Loyalty. Bravery. Truth. All of these are from the Bible. And you think they're dangerous?

I have yet to find anything "dangerous" about the laws given to the Hebrews.

Well, some of them can be, depending how they're applied - devotion can be lovely, but being devoted to, say, exterminating all the people who don't look like you? Yeah, I'd say that's dangerous.

That said, no one is arguing that there's nothing good in the Bible. There's plenty. The most dedicated atheist in the world won't claim that "Love thy neighbor" is a nasty, horrible message. The thing is, the Bible doesn't begin and end with "love thy neighbor," and quite a lot of the other passages aren't nearly as nice. Just going with examples of indisputable sexism, the bit about how the punishment for raping someone is that you have to pay her father a bit of money and then marry her, and the rape victim never even gets a say in the matter? Not so nice. The bit about how menstruating women are so disgusting and unclean that the punishment for a man having sex with one, even if she's his wife, is to exile both of them? Not so nice. The bit about how giving birth is sinful and unclean, and that giving birth to a daughter is even MORE unclean, and that everyone should shun the new mother while she ritually cleanses herself, and she should have to make an offering to God to ATONE for having given birth before she counts as being "clean" again? Not so freaking nice.

You can choose to be a Christian. That's fine. You can choose to believe in the Bible and use it as a guide for how to live your life. That's fine, too. But for heaven's sake, READ the damn thing first and recognize that there are a lot of bits of it that aren't nice at all and that probably aren't good words to live by.

[Gagatron]

They noticed some in Genesis, but their attempts on Exodus were pathetic. I think it's common sense that when a woman bleeds out of her vagina, the things she bleeds on are unclean.

Periods aren't so dirty that women have to live outside the village for their entire duration where anyone they touch becomes unclean by proxy.

15:19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.

If that was the case *pokes Gagatron* you might want to take a shower.

Doesn't it mean "Whoever touches her vagina"?

[Dakini]

Periods aren't so dirty that women have to live outside the village for their entire duration where anyone they touch becomes unclean by proxy.

15:19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.

If that was the case *pokes Gagatron* you might want to take a shower.

Doesn't it mean "Whoever touches her vagina"?

No, that's covered later.

15:24 And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean.

Women are also supposed to sacrifice some doves each month apparently.

[Gagatron]

Purity. Honesty. Devotion. Family. Loyalty. Bravery. Truth. All of these are from the Bible. And you think they're dangerous?

I have yet to find anything "dangerous" about the laws given to the Hebrews.

Well, some of them can be, depending how they're applied - devotion can be lovely, but being devoted to, say, exterminating all the people who don't look like you? Yeah, I'd say that's dangerous.

That said, no one is arguing that there's nothing good in the Bible. There's plenty. The most dedicated atheist in the world won't claim that "Love thy neighbor" is a nasty, horrible message. The thing is, the Bible doesn't begin and end with "love thy neighbor," and quite a lot of the other passages aren't nearly as nice. Just going with examples of indisputable sexism, the bit about how the punishment for raping someone is that you have to pay her father a bit of money and then marry her, and the rape victim never even gets a say in the matter? Not so nice. The bit about how menstruating women are so disgusting and unclean that the punishment for a man having sex with one, even if she's his wife, is to exile both of them? Not so nice. The bit about how giving birth is sinful and unclean, and that giving birth to a daughter is even MORE unclean, and that everyone should shun the new mother while she ritually cleanses herself, and she should have to make an offering to God to ATONE for having given birth before she counts as being "clean" again? Not so freaking nice.

You can choose to be a Christian. That's fine. You can choose to believe in the Bible and use it as a guide for how to live your life. That's fine, too. But for heaven's sake, READ the damn thing first and recognize that there are a lot of bits of it that aren't nice at all and that probably aren't good words to live by.

No one who gives birth is "sinful". The Bible doesn't use that word when describing the cleansing process. It's a known fact that women bleed after giving birth, and that their breast leak. This is why the law is dead people...because it was meant for Jews 3000 years ago.

Nowadays, you're still unclean abit, but much less so. You get to shower and put on a tampon. Than goodness Jesus cleared that up.

[Gagatron]

Periods aren't so dirty that women have to live outside the village for their entire duration where anyone they touch becomes unclean by proxy.

Imagine being a woman 3000 years ago, in Israel. No tampons. No hormone pills. No underwhere. When you bleed, it gets on everthing, doesn't it? Dripping on the ground while walking? Imagine if the period is extra heavy, and everytime you sit down, you stain everything. Why would you want to stay in the village?

[United Dependencies]

Periods aren't so dirty that women have to live outside the village for their entire duration where anyone they touch becomes unclean by proxy.

Imagine being a woman 3000 years ago, in Israel. No tampons. No hormone pills. No underwhere. When you bleed, it gets on everthing, doesn't it? Dripping on the ground while walking? Imagine if the period is extra heavy, and everytime you sit down, you stain everything. Why would you want to stay in the village?

Considering that they had early forms of contraception I'm going to say that this probably isn't the case. Ofcourse, I'm not even sure if this is biologically possible.

[Dakini]

No one who gives birth is "sinful". The Bible doesn't use that word when describing the cleansing process. It's a known fact that women bleed after giving birth, and that their breast leak. This is why the law is dead people...because it was meant for Jews 3000 years ago.

Nowadays, you're still unclean abit, but much less so. You get to shower and put on a tampon. Than goodness Jesus cleared that up.

Oh! So earlier it's "obvious" that everything a woman lies down on and touches during her period is unclean, but now it's antiquated rules that don't apply anymore.

Also, how is a woman not being "unclean" for twice as long when she has a girl as when she has a boy not sexist?

12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
12:4 And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.
12:5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.
12:6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or dove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest:

And "unclean" is pretty much "sinful". Otherwise the advice would be "take a shower and wash up" instead of "sacrifice some animals to the LORD".

[Ceannairceach]

Periods aren't so dirty that women have to live outside the village for their entire duration where anyone they touch becomes unclean by proxy.

Imagine being a woman 3000 years ago, in Israel. No tampons. No hormone pills. No underwhere. When you bleed, it gets on everthing, doesn't it? Dripping on the ground while walking? Imagine if the period is extra heavy, and everytime you sit down, you stain everything. Why would you want to stay in the village?

Not a historian here, but... Yeah, undergarments have been around since Roman times I believe, so I think they were probably also around in early Jewish communities.