School Damage

[Der Teutoniker]

What about those without the time for home school or the money for private, how will parents both hold jobs without a facility to occupy thier children in the meantime.

Public school is fine, want better then pay more taxes.

I was responding to the erroneous suggestion that private school was the best available. It isn't. It sometimes is the only option, but not the best one.

[Der Teutoniker]

Home school? Now you have not only imperfect teachers in the school system, now you have UNQUALIFIED teachers as well? There's a reason why teachers go through college. Private school? Far too many are religiously oriented.

I've actually seen some really excellent results from home schooling. Then again, I'm not in the Bible Belt, so maybe that's part of it.

I'd like my children to be homeschooled if possible. That way I can squash the evolution myth in my own home at least.

I'm gonna be a total ass, and explain my satire in white, lol. I would like them to be homeschooled, but that is simply because I know I can provide a superior education.

[CIB EMPIRE]

Well, as usual the problem is the government. Get the government out of the school system and let the private schools take over, they would actually have to do a good job or they would fail because parents wouldnt send their kids to them. Not to mention lower taxes!

But the opinion of the parents is not always what's best. You confuse majority opinion with what is correct. If a thousand people speak of the moon being made of cheese, and fifty that of it being rock, who is correct? The thousand due to numerical superiority? Or the fifty due to actual factual correctness?

The opinion of the government is also not always correct (very very rarely correct in my opinion which is also not always correct)

However despite the fact that parents do not always make the right choices it does not give the government the right to step in.

And btw, what the hell are you talking about? I never talked about the majority opinion of anything

[Odessaden]

So you are forced to government schools, backed by taxpayer dollars. You are obviously taught things in a completely one sided way (especially in history, where the telling of it depends on which side won). Children are essentially forced into segregation in the form of cliques out of racial/social tensions. Many students who are rotting inside a classroom would much rather be doing vocational work. Sometimes the students are more qualified to teach the classes than the teaches. Your freedom of movement is restricted by draconian rules, such as hall passes and bathroom passes. You are taught to respect a central authority figure (teacher). You are not allowed free speech in a classroom. Kids are bullied and humiliated. Kids are taught that things like sports actually matter, with sports players being allowed to cheat on tests. Kids are put through stress over relentless tests and busy work.


So what exactly is the allure of the public education system?

Please note that I personally am not advocating any specific alternative in this OP, which is just questioning the current system without inherently presenting a different system of education. So please refrain from the typical "your an anarchist so you think kids should be stupid and uneducated and get killed" statements.

It's not ideal, but it's the best we have until the Vulcans take over.

Do you watch your Star Trek? We ally with Vulcans and then kick Klingon butt (and then Borgs).

[Saint Jade IV]

As a former teacher, I'm starting to think your hatred of authority comes from a bad school experience.

I don't think that children are taught much of the things which you state they are taught in your OP. I think that this is what naturally occurs in any sector of society.

In very, very few instances I would agree that the student may be more qualified in terms of content knowledge. But you fail spectacularly to take stock of the fact that teaching involves far more than mere content knowledge. In fact, the content is almost secondary to the expertise required to develop curriculum and assessment, manage behaviour, and plan appropriate learning experiences.

[The Land of Niet]

Home school? Private school? Public hardly seems like the best.

What about those without the time for home school or the money for private, how will parents both hold jobs without a facility to occupy thier children in the meantime.

Public school is fine, want better then pay more taxes.

Before having little brats accumulate some money, or use condom possibly three per intercourse or just settle for Bare back "Lewinskies". Or get cute puppy and spoil him rotten.
Advertise on CL adult services for $$$.

[Conserative Morality]

I've actually seen some really excellent results from home schooling. Then again, I'm not in the Bible Belt, so maybe that's part of it.

But that's exactly the problem, lack of uniformity of quality. While yes, there may be some homeschoolers that are excellent teachers as well as parents, there are also a good deal of parents that, whatever their quality as parents may be, are simply not cut out to teach.

I'd like my children to be homeschooled if possible. That way I can squash the evolution myth in my own home at least.

I'm gonna be a total ass, and explain my satire in white, lol. I would like them to be homeschooled, but that is simply because I know I can provide a superior education.

I see nothing wrong with occasional incidents of homeschooling, it's if it becomes a major phenomenon that I'll start to worry.

[Barringtonia]

Before having little brats accumulate some money, or use condom possibly three per intercourse or just settle for Bare back "Lewinskies". Or get cute puppy and spoil him rotten.
Advertise on CL adult services for $$$.

While we can all smugly pontificate on what people should do, back in the world of reality we deal with what people actually do.

[CIB EMPIRE]

What about those without the time for home school or the money for private, how will parents both hold jobs without a facility to occupy thier children in the meantime.

Public school is fine, want better then pay more taxes.

Before having little brats accumulate some money, or use condom possibly three per intercourse or just settle for Bare back "Lewinskies". Or get cute puppy and spoil him rotten.
Advertise on CL adult services for $$$.

Yeah yeah, rawdawg

[Odessaden]

Home school? Now you have not only imperfect teachers in the school system, now you have UNQUALIFIED teachers as well? There's a reason why teachers go through college. Private school? Far too many are religiously oriented.

I've actually seen some really excellent results from home schooling. Then again, I'm not in the Bible Belt, so maybe that's part of it.

I'd like my children to be homeschooled if possible. That way I can squash the evolution myth in my own home at least.

I'm gonna be a total ass, and explain my satire in white, lol. I would like them to be homeschooled, but that is simply because I know I can provide a superior education.

Two words. Oy. Vey.

[Conserative Morality]

The opinion of the government is also not always correct (very very rarely correct in my opinion which is also not always correct)

It is correct far more often than the general population. We're not looking for objective correctness, we're looking at relative numbers considering that we're considering the practical alternatives.

However despite the fact that parents do not always make the right choices it does not give the government the right to step in.

It doesn't? So if a parent beats their child, it is their choice and thus the government has no right to step in? On the contrary, the government has the right to do whatever the government says it has a right to do.

And btw, what the hell are you talking about? I never talked about the majority opinion of anything

You did, you claimed that if parents liked what a school taught, they'd go to it. That would fund the school, schools without an opinion appealing to the masses would shrivel and die, whatever their quality. You advocated the majority opinion ruling, voting with their wallets.

[CIB EMPIRE]

The opinion of the government is also not always correct (very very rarely correct in my opinion which is also not always correct)

It is correct far more often than the general population. We're not looking for objective correctness, we're looking at relative numbers considering that we're considering the practical alternatives.
[quote]
Hell no it isnt! The government ultimately fails in everything it gets its hands into! School systems failing, Postal service bankrupt, trillion dollar deficits, money draining endless wars,

[Antilon]

There is no allure to the US' compulsory education system... unless you're coming from a third-world country that lacks one.

The sentiment behind compulsory education is fairly positive, for both humanitarian and economic reasons. You shouldn't let the poor execution of compulsory education by the US lead you to believe that it's an entirely bad idea, especially when some of the short comings come from society itself (i.e. irresponsible parents, little to no social recognition for intellectual achievement, etc.).

[Der Teutoniker]

But that's exactly the problem, lack of uniformity of quality. While yes, there may be some homeschoolers that are excellent teachers as well as parents, there are also a good deal of parents that, whatever their quality as parents may be, are simply not cut out to teach.

I see nothing wrong with occasional incidents of homeschooling, it's if it becomes a major phenomenon that I'll start to worry.

I can see where you are coming from. If only there were a way to impose decent standards.

Also, you're too good at finding my white text, lol.

[The Blaatschapen]

I changed the my post. Now it is even better.

Also, I'm not sure if this is the same in all/most of Europe. I somehow doubt it actually.

I hear that Italy has a similar problem. Not sure if it's true or not.

Well, we only have an actual problem with a few orthodox protestant schools and with some islamic schools. And with some catholic schools back in the '60s or so (abuse) but which is only popping up now.

I remember my time at 2 "catholic" schools. The first one had only person (out of 35) going to do the Confirmation in my year. After which they reintroduced bible lessons. Funny since there were already quite some muslim kids in the classes though.

My other catholic school(secondary) only had christmas celebration. No bibles classes (unlike my brothers), or anything. It was actually fairly liberal, also including lectures on Life Stance, teaching about what the different major religions are, but also about humanism and stuff. That was quite cool, also because 1 of the teachers was usually showing movies to teach us. Ah, joyous friday afternoons

That said, afaik the Italian problem is having crosses in a public school?

[Conserative Morality]

Hell no it isnt! The government ultimately fails in everything it gets its hands into! School systems failing, Postal service bankrupt, trillion dollar deficits, money draining endless wars,

Universal literacy due to government involvement in education. You ever look at literacy statistics pre-Public Education? Country-spanning infrastructure, order and stability within a country, regulation of industry, preventing such atrocities as recorded in The Jungle from sparking up again, research and development of important technology that shapes our lives every day! Those who claim the government can't do shit refuse to look at, you know, what they've actually done throughout the years.

[Der Teutoniker]

Two words. Oy. Vey.

Three incomplete sentences too. Care to explain, though? Your two words are not only inadequate, they are pretty much entirely unexplanatory in any possible sense.

[Conserative Morality]

There is no allure to the US' compulsory education system... unless you're coming from a third-world country that lacks one.

The sentiment behind compulsory education is fairly positive, for both humanitarian and economic reasons. You shouldn't let the poor execution of compulsory education by the US lead you to believe that it's an entirely bad idea, especially when some of the short comings come from society itself (i.e. irresponsible parents, little to no social recognition for intellectual achievement, etc.).

I wouldn't call it a poor education system. Mediocre, at worst.

[Conserative Morality]

I can see where you are coming from. If only there were a way to impose decent standards.

Public education to educate all people so that they become homeschoolers in order to provide better education than public education.

Also, you're too good at finding my white text, lol.

It comes up when I quote you.

[Der Teutoniker]

Universal literacy due to government involvement in education.

This can't be true because I'd simply rather hold on to my inexplicable, irrational hatred of the government. I'd also like to gripe about how the postal service runs a budget deficit... yet it provides a ridiculously valuable national service that left to the free market would disadvantage most rural areas.

[Conserative Morality]

This can't be true because I'd simply rather hold on to my inexplicable, irrational hatred of the government. I'd also like to gripe about how the postal service runs a budget deficit... yet it provides a ridiculously valuable national service that left to the free market would disadvantage most rural areas.

With all seriousness (And yes, I recognize the sarcasm ), government may screw-up a lot, especially on large issues set to public scrutiny, but it's amazing how well they do with the mundane things.

[The Blaatschapen]

It comes up when I quote you.

You shouldn't have said that. We could be all mysterious about it and fool him for a looong time

[Der Teutoniker]

Public education to educate all people so that they become homeschoolers in order to provide better education than public education.

Lol, I'd say it's not the worst idea ever. It sounds pretty bad though!

It comes up when I quote you.

I know that, but it seems like few people actually pay attention. I myself would likely only catch it because I trim posts I quote.

[Der Teutoniker]

You shouldn't have said that. We could be all mysterious about it and fool him for a looong time

Thanks for the vote of intellectual confidence, but I already knew it was in the quotes.

[The Blaatschapen]

You shouldn't have said that. We could be all mysterious about it and fool him for a looong time

Thanks for the vote of intellectual confidence, but I already knew it was in the quotes.

You're welcome