The Zeitgeist Movement.

[Mike the Progressive]

<Sigh> Like I said before, I've heard of it, and it is idiotic. It will never be accomplished or achieved, it is mindless ranting, and will probably result in another Jonestown.

[Genivar]

After spending 2 hours watching the Zeitgeist Addendum movie I cannot think of any reason not to support it.

I shame, so 'tis. I took 'ye' for a sensible man.

Oh shame that you completely dismiss something out of hand.
Also, your an arrogant arse.

[Greater Tezdrian]

I shame, so 'tis. I took 'ye' for a sensible man.

Oh shame that you completely dismiss something out of hand.
Also, your an arrogant arse.

Thank you kindly.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Then what would you classify as human nature?

Human nature would be basic drives that all healthy humans feel. Feed themselves, come in out of the cold, avoid wasted effort (maybe?). That's why it's such a useless term. Like I said before, people use it to attempt to universalize things that are not universal. Any time anyone makes a claim about human nature, there's a pretty big chance they are just trying to avoid unpleasant truths.

So is your position that the only items of human nature are food, clothing and shelter? Because everything else that humans do, even as a rule, have exceptions.

[Genivar]

Human nature would be basic drives that all healthy humans feel. Feed themselves, come in out of the cold, avoid wasted effort (maybe?). That's why it's such a useless term. Like I said before, people use it to attempt to universalize things that are not universal. Any time anyone makes a claim about human nature, there's a pretty big chance they are just trying to avoid unpleasant truths.

So is your position that the only items of human nature are food, clothing and shelter? Because everything else that humans do, even as a rule, have exceptions.

Physical needs perhaps, Social needs (Because humans ARE social creatures) include education, medicine, and (not to sound mushy) love.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

So is your position that the only items of human nature are food, clothing and shelter? Because everything else that humans do, even as a rule, have exceptions.

Physical needs perhaps, Social needs (Because humans ARE social creatures) include education, medicine, and (not to sound mushy) love.

Some humans do not require other humans. Granted, it is a small minority, but there is such a thing as a hermit.

In addition, not all humans are drawn to higher education and not all have access to medicine. I don't think I need to address the point of love.

[Genivar]

Physical needs perhaps, Social needs (Because humans ARE social creatures) include education, medicine, and (not to sound mushy) love.

Some humans do not require other humans. Granted, it is a small minority, but there is such a thing as a hermit.

In addition, not all humans are drawn to higher education and not all have access to medicine. I don't think I need to address the point of love.

I never said HIGHER education.
That doesn't mean they don't need medicine simply because they don't have it.
And as for the last one.....that makes me sad.
To quote the great John Lennon : All you need is Love.

[Gagatron]

Physical needs perhaps, Social needs (Because humans ARE social creatures) include education, medicine, and (not to sound mushy) love.

Some humans do not require other humans. Granted, it is a small minority, but there is such a thing as a hermit.

In addition, not all humans are drawn to higher education and not all have access to medicine. I don't think I need to address the point of love.

Shall I refer to Maslow? Humans start with survival needs, then we go to safety needs, then to belongingness needs. According to Mr. Maslow, people who do not fulfill their needs are unhealthy.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Some humans do not require other humans. Granted, it is a small minority, but there is such a thing as a hermit.

In addition, not all humans are drawn to higher education and not all have access to medicine. I don't think I need to address the point of love.

I never said HIGHER education.
That doesn't mean they don't need medicine simply because they don't have it.
And as for the last one.....that makes me sad.

By education do you mean formal education, because many do not have and/or desire that.

As far as the love, the concept of romantic love is a relatively new precept in society. Take Middle Eastern society. Women do not choose who they're to marry. Marriages are arranged for the purpose of social advancement or wealth gain, in many cases. "Love" has nothing to do with it. Few even consider the concept worthy of attention, much less achievement.

[Gagatron]

I never said HIGHER education.
That doesn't mean they don't need medicine simply because they don't have it.
And as for the last one.....that makes me sad.

By education do you mean formal education, because many do not have and/or desire that.

As far as the love, the concept of romantic love is a relatively new precept in society. Take Middle Eastern society. Women do not choose who they're to marry. Marriages are arranged for the purpose of social advancement or wealth gain, in many cases. "Love" has nothing to do with it. Few even consider the concept worthy of attention, much less achievement.

But they tended to marry people who they thought would grow to love eachother. Because love is a choice, they say.

[Andaluciae]

Zeitgeist means nothing, and is nothing. It's not worth spending any time worrying about.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

By education do you mean formal education, because many do not have and/or desire that.

As far as the love, the concept of romantic love is a relatively new precept in society. Take Middle Eastern society. Women do not choose who they're to marry. Marriages are arranged for the purpose of social advancement or wealth gain, in many cases. "Love" has nothing to do with it. Few even consider the concept worthy of attention, much less achievement.

But they tended to marry people who they thought would grow to love eachother. Because love is a choice, they say.

Is this a commonly held belief? For one I've never even heard of that. A source would be nice, if this is indeed a commonly held belief.

[Genivar]

But they tended to marry people who they thought would grow to love eachother. Because love is a choice, they say.

Is this a commonly held belief? For one I've never even heard of that. A source would be nice, if this is indeed a commonly held belief.

Not among westerners no.

[Gagatron]

But they tended to marry people who they thought would grow to love eachother. Because love is a choice, they say.

Is this a commonly held belief? For one I've never even heard of that. A source would be nice, if this is indeed a commonly held belief.

It's actually what my Chinese teacher said they say in China, where they also arrange marriages. She led me to belive that it was a commonly held belief in Asia, but I don't know what they think in the Middle East.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Is this a commonly held belief? For one I've never even heard of that. A source would be nice, if this is indeed a commonly held belief.

Not among westerners no.

That's all good and well, but I asked about Middle Eastern society and if indeed love is a choice there. Not Western society.

[Lauchlin]

Not among westerners no.

That's all good and well, but I asked about Middle Eastern society and if indeed love is a choice there. Not Western society.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue, so I'm not sure which aspect you want sourced. Are you saying that you think people in the Middle East don't believe in love? Or just that love is not something they expect from marriages?

[Trotskylvania]

Zeitgeist means nothing, and is nothing. It's not worth spending any time worrying about.

It has ruined a perfectly good word for the foreseeable future.

[Genivar]

Not among westerners no.

That's all good and well, but I asked about Middle Eastern society and if indeed love is a choice there. Not Western society.

I mean according to westerners there is no love in middle eastern marriages.

[Gagatron]

That's all good and well, but I asked about Middle Eastern society and if indeed love is a choice there. Not Western society.

I mean according to westerners there is no love in middle eastern marriages.

Well then they are ignorant that not all love is the same. Not all love needs to be passionate; it can be respectful and controlled.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That's all good and well, but I asked about Middle Eastern society and if indeed love is a choice there. Not Western society.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue, so I'm not sure which aspect you want sourced. Are you saying that you think people in the Middle East don't believe in love? Or just that love is not something they expect from marriages?

Love is not really a choice. You don't choose whom you love, like you choose which shirt to wear or which burger you want to eat. What I wanted sourced has already been explained by the poster in question. It is a belief apparently held in China.

And in the Middle East, love is not expected out of marriage. If it happens, good, but it is not expected. You of course, still haven't answered the post I made to you last.

[Genivar]

By Love I never said Romantic love. I guess a better way to put it would be the love of others. Parents for example. I believe someone already referenced Maslow.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I mean according to westerners there is no love in middle eastern marriages.

Well then they are ignorant that not all love is the same. Not all love needs to be passionate; it can be respectful and controlled.

That however is not the 'love' to which the OP was referring to. I do not think so.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

By Love I never said Romantic love. I guess a better way to put it would be the love of others. Parents for example. I believe someone already referenced Maslow.

Then you should've defined to which kind of love you were referring to. There are many kinds of love.

[Lauchlin]

And in the Middle East, love is not expected out of marriage. If it happens, good, but it is not expected. You of course, still haven't answered the post I made to you last.

Sorry, I must have missed that.

Human nature would be basic drives that all healthy humans feel. Feed themselves, come in out of the cold, avoid wasted effort (maybe?). That's why it's such a useless term. Like I said before, people use it to attempt to universalize things that are not universal. Any time anyone makes a claim about human nature, there's a pretty big chance they are just trying to avoid unpleasant truths.

So is your position that the only items of human nature are food, clothing and shelter? Because everything else that humans do, even as a rule, have exceptions.

Human nature is, by definition, something that is natural to every healthy human being. So yes, basic needs are all that can be referred to as "human nature," if you want to be honest about it.

By Love I never said Romantic love. I guess a better way to put it would be the love of others. Parents for example. I believe someone already referenced Maslow.

Then you should've defined to which kind of love you were referring to. There are many kinds of love.

If there are many different kinds, did why did you assume the poster meant only the one kind of love that you could argue against?

[Genivar]

By Love I never said Romantic love. I guess a better way to put it would be the love of others. Parents for example. I believe someone already referenced Maslow.

Then you should've defined to which kind of love you were referring to. There are many kinds of love.

Well you shouldn't have assumed .